Neymar

[Blue Gino 377]

We don't need a diva, he's whoring himself out to clubs publicly

Eden Hazard can be accused of the same. These players are asked questions that will set up a response to sell that reporter's paper. The media, fans and retired legends like Pele have put such an enormous pressure on this young man it's scary to imagine trying to live up to all that expectation.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

You are right about it, I shouldnt have done that. Lost control, sorry mate!

However, if you did watch enough games you would never say such stupid things as like Neymar is not a team player or he does not bring more then 5min of skills. People got so amazed with him because he can transform his magic into assist and goals, which you cleared said isnt true. Also Brazilians in Brazil dont defend, have you watched Oscar, Kaka, Robinho before Europe? Utter shit defending, they learn with time...

Neymar is really really good and I dont care how good he will be. The media makes stupid hype around the guy and all of a sudden it is his or my fault! The Messi comparissons are more than ridiculous and you cant keep a decent conversation without people hitting on it. That is what blows my mind and what I cant stand. Half of the posts towards Neymar isnt about his football. It is either about his personality, his look or Messi. All are irrelevant to criticize his ability or anything similar.

Until now; Alex and dionsa were the only ones to make decent arguments. There rest was media talking and stereotype...

No problem mate.

The things is, I didn't say those things, no idea how you inferred them from my post. Let me make it clear: I meant he is very good on the ball but any attacker is on the ball for a small portion of the 90 mins. I said that he does not offer much to the team when off the ball, not that he is not a team player.

You may have a point about the defending, I actually didn't ant Oscar here because of his terrible defensive work-rate in the Brazilian league. But, still that does not make me want him here for two reasons:

1) He is a huge gamble and 40m is too much to gamble with especially if you consider the FFP rules. The reason I say he is a gamble is because no one knows if he can replicate his Brazilian league form in a defensively better league. He has often disappeared in Brazil's big matches (England and Germany come to mind). His best performances in a Brazil shirt were the Olympics, but even then he did not convince me that he is worth 40m.

2) And this is what I meant with the first post where I said I would rather Moses: He is not my type of player. I'm not denying he is very good, I don't think that is deniable, but when I am a fan of the Mourinho school of tactics. I like wingers in the mold of Duff, Cole,Valencia, Moses...etc and I love direct style of football ( and I don't mean just long balls). Tricks and dribbling are entertaining to watch but they are no where near as effective.

[Santiago. 1,500]

His performance against Argentina was easily the worst. Such an overhyped unproven child. Hopefully his ego doesn't become as big as Pele's

I'm starting to actually despise Pele

[robsblubot 3,595]

Yes Moses, what is wrong with Moses?

I don't deny his dribbling skills, an attacker is on the ball how long during a game? 5 mins? 7-8 mins? What does Neymar offer in the remaining 85 mins? Next to nothing: He does not track back on the defense, he does not drop to receive the ball or create spaces for others on the attack. Neymar is entertaining to watch, but Moses offers much more for the team.

Neymar will never be anywhere near Messi, his work isn't even one tenth that of Messi. He'll never be anywhere near Ronaldo either because he is going to be the athlete that Ronaldo is.

Couldn't disagree more. Compared to Neymar, Moses is utter shit. I'm NOT saying Moses *is* shit, because he is a GOOD player, but not comparable to the likes of Neymar (or Hazard, or Mata). IMO Moses does not belong in this discussion.

Neymar has the potential to be better than Hazard, and Hazard is twice the player Moses is.

I guess we will have to wait and see who is right. I'm fairly confident in my predictions though.

[Santiago. 1,500]

Couldn't disagree more. Compared to Neymar, Moses is utter shit. I'm NOT saying Moses *is* shit, because he is a GOOD player, but not comparable to the likes of Neymar (or Hazard, or Mata). IMO Moses does not belong in this discussion.

Neymar has the potential to be better than Hazard, and Hazard is twice the player Moses is.

I guess we will have to wait and see who is right. I'm fairly confident in my predictions though.

Absolutely cringeworthy

[Yeboii 1,844]

Couldn't disagree more. Compared to Neymar, Moses is utter shit. I'm NOT saying Moses *is* shit, because he is a GOOD player, but not comparable to the likes of Neymar (or Hazard, or Mata). IMO Moses does not belong in this discussion.

Neymar has the potential to be better than Hazard, and Hazard is twice the player Moses is.

I guess we will have to wait and see who is right. I'm fairly confident in my predictions though.

Wtf are you talking about? Moses is a really good player and has forced himself to the first team of Chelsea from Wigan. He is also taking part in the final of African Cup Of Nations right now, and winning. He is a really good player, but I agree, Hazard is better but not twice as better

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Couldn't disagree more. Compared to Neymar, Moses is utter shit. I'm NOT saying Moses *is* shit, because he is a GOOD player, but not comparable to the likes of Neymar (or Hazard, or Mata). IMO Moses does not belong in this discussion.

Neymar has the potential to be better than Hazard, and Hazard is twice the player Moses is.

I guess we will have to wait and see who is right. I'm fairly confident in my predictions though.

Moses is a completely different player to Neymar ( and Hazard and Mata). Victor can't do what Neymar does and vise versa. It depends on what type of player you want in your team and what style of play do you use.

And Hazard is "twice the player Moses is"? How exactly do you measure that?!

[Santiago. 1,500]

Moses competes in the most physical and competitive league in the world, plays in Europe, and Is a proven player to deliver. Something you can't say about Neymar

[Rmpr 8,977]

No problem mate.

The things is, I didn't say those things, no idea how you inferred them from my post. Let me make it clear: I meant he is very good on the ball but any attacker is on the ball for a small portion of the 90 mins. I said that he does not offer much to the team when off the ball, not that he is not a team player.

You may have a point about the defending, I actually didn't ant Oscar here because of his terrible defensive work-rate in the Brazilian league. But, still that does not make me want him here for two reasons:

1) He is a huge gamble and 40m is too much to gamble with especially if you consider the FFP rules. The reason I say he is a gamble is because no one knows if he can replicate his Brazilian league form in a defensively better league. He has often disappeared in Brazil's big matches (England and Germany come to mind). His best performances in a Brazil shirt were the Olympics, but even then he did not convince me that he is worth 40m.

2) And this is what I meant with the first post where I said I would rather Moses: He is not my type of player. I'm not denying he is very good, I don't think that is deniable, but when I am a fan of the Mourinho school of tactics. I like wingers in the mold of Duff, Cole,Valencia, Moses...etc and I love direct style of football ( and I don't mean just long balls). Tricks and dribbling are entertaining to watch but they are no where near as effective.

1) I totally agree, I wouldnt pay 40m for him. He will be worth that, I have no doubt, but not now. What people cant understand is that his plan os to go for free. He will want 130k/week or so, but there wont be any transfer fee. What might happen (and expeculations are rising), is that Santos will want to make money and sell him in the summer. He has already publicly said no to two contract extension offers.

2) Ok, fair enough. It is not the type of football I like and I strongly disagree, but you are entitled to your opinion. I just think people overreact to his dribling, he does use them pratically most of the time. Of course youtube videos wont show that though.

[Rmpr 8,977]

His performance against Argentina was easily the worst. Such an overhyped unproven child. Hopefully his ego doesn't become as big as Pele's

I'm starting to actually despise Pele

I honestly feel that you are really jealous of all the attention Neymar gets.

You never give clever arguments, always some media bla bla bla...

Also, you need to name games. I think he has played Argentina 5-6 times. He had amazing and terrible games. Ironically, when we faced a stronger Argentina he was brilliant and when we faced an "only locals" Argentina, he was shit.

[Henrique 9,133]

@Rmpr

Change your disgusting avatar, NOW!!!

[The only place to be 11,313]

Couldn't disagree more. Compared to Neymar, Moses is utter shit. I'm NOT saying Moses *is* shit, because he is a GOOD player, but not comparable to the likes of Neymar (or Hazard, or Mata). IMO Moses does not belong in this discussion.

Neymar has the potential to be better than Hazard, and Hazard is twice the player Moses is.

I guess we will have to wait and see who is right. I'm fairly confident in my predictions though.

Moses is not 'utter shit' compared to anyone. He's a Chelsea player, a very good one at that, and deserves a bit more fucking respect.

Neymar looks like a great little player and he has potential, but he's only really done it in the Brazilian league so far. Until he actually does something in a league that's a bit more challenging there's some massive question marks over him.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Moses over neymar ?????

Are my eyes deceiving me or is BadBoy back?!

[robsblubot 3,595]

Moses is a completely different player to Neymar ( and Hazard and Mata). Victor can't do what Neymar does and vise versa. It depends on what type of player you want in your team and what style of play do you use.

And Hazard is "twice the player Moses is"? How exactly do you measure that?!

ability to make the difference; match winning potential; potential to give you an edge against strong opposition.

so, different attacking players can be measured against each other that way, IMO of course.

I do hope Moses develops (he's very young) and become an excellent player, but I just don't see enough potential there to come close to Neymar or Hazard level.

BTW, Neymar and Hazard are also 21...

[CHOULO19 24,332]

ability to make the difference; match winning potential; potential to give you an edge against strong opposition.

so, different attacking players can be measured against each other that way, IMO of course.

I do hope Moses develops (he's very young) and become an excellent player, but I just don't see enough potential there to come close to Neymar or Hazard level.

BTW, Neymar and Hazard are also 21...

Imo Moses' tributes such as defensive abilities, work-rate, effective direct style are just as in any match. I'd explain more but this is not the thread to do so.

Lets get back to Neymar..

[Rmpr 8,977]

@Rmpr

Change your disgusting avatar, NOW!!!

I know I know.

You have no idea of the backroon info. it is worst than you can imagine. I am in Rio mate, only when I comenack I will be able to change it...

Back to Neymar though...

[robsblubot 3,595]

Imo Moses' tributes such as defensive abilities, work-rate, effective direct style are just as in any match. I'd explain more but this is not the thread to do so.

Lets get back to Neymar..

I completely understand where you are coming from, but I don't value those attributes so highly as you do.

In my experience, players can and do develop those (defensive/mental) attributes once they move to stronger league and learn better tactics with better coaches/managers. However, players do NOT improve drastically their technical skills (ball control shooting, etc). Ex: Lampard has always had good shooting skills; he's improved on them, but not drastically.

On Neymar, his development has stalled. Like you all I watch him mostly when playing international matches and it is obvious he struggles with a more physical game and stronger opposition. The only solution is a move to Europe. However, for Brazil, it's already too late as even if he moves next summer, he won't have time to fully develop until the WC. Brazil have a good side, but not WC winner material.

However, when we talk about (future) potential, the final touch, the decisive touch is everything and Naymar has it.

[Santiago. 1,500]

I honestly feel that you are really jealous of all the attention Neymar gets.

You never give clever arguments, always some media bla bla bla...

Also, you need to name games. I think he has played Argentina 5-6 times. He had amazing and terrible games. Ironically, when we faced a stronger Argentina he was brilliant and when we faced an "only locals" Argentina, he was shit.

Never give clever arguments?

Mate, all of my arguments have been at the highest most reasonable and to deny that is down right bias or pure naivety. I have only made one reference of him towards the media and the likes of Pele, and it is true. The hype he is getting is well unjustified. He has not proven himself to have such a status he is currently being given and there are talent in Europe that can easily replace him if the inevitability of him flopping/failing in Europe happens.

Of course I'm Jealous. Jealous of how he is being viewed by the public in comparison to other footballers in the world (when many footballers his age have already proven more) and such claims as he can be compared with the likes of Ronaldo and Messi.

The 4-3 Match against Argentina. Bar none, the worst Brazilian on the pitch that day. Every time he had the ball, he messed up and choked. He was against a defense that all play in Europe for Argentina, he could not do anything. Possibly a taste of what to come when he comes to Europe? Can't judge in one game. My Girlfriend is Argentinian and every time he had the ball, she just laughed.

He has an amazing talent, dear Christ no one can deny that. But the most cringeworthy thing about it is that there are people who are completely blinded by bias to realize that there are actually proven talent in Europe that go beyond the boundaries that Neymar is currently uphold of.

[J.F. 1,484]

LOCK THIS TOPIC!

[robsblubot 3,595]

good read on Neymar: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21409456

(Tim Vickery)