Ramires

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

He was the best player.

Our midfield was shit in the second-half and overrun by Arsenal's.

How do you reconcile those two things?

My belief is that he thrives in games where we're playing with our backs against the wall (Barcelona, Arsenal) and his fast breaks enable us to take advantage of broken transitions. But we can't win football like that consistently and nor should we aspire to.

I think Ramires would be fantastic in a Mourinho sort of system. Counter-attack football with strong defence. This allows him to work aggressively defensively and affords him space to run in counter-attacks. Unfortunately for Ramires, we are not moving in that direction. He's a very good player on the right sort of team, I just don't see how he fits into a future Chelsea team.

[The Skipper 20,609]

He was the best player.

Our midfield was shit in the second-half and overrun by Arsenal's.

How do you reconcile those two things?

My belief is that he thrives in games where we're playing with our backs against the wall (Barcelona, Arsenal) and his fast breaks enable us to take advantage of broken transitions. But we can't win football like that consistently and nor should we aspire to.

We weren't playing with our backs against the wall in the first half where he was head and shoulders above everyone did we?

Second half performance wasn't completely down to our midfield being shit. It's the way we came out that set the tone for the rest of the game. I'm looking at the manager for the reason we performed badly in the second half. We dropped our intensity and allowed Arsenal to get back into the game.

Regardless, I think the stick he's been getting is unfair. He's a great asset to the side, and it's against the big teams, if we are set up properly and if he plays in his natural position, where he'll do the most damage.

Yes he had a poor game but my point is Ramires is still a valuable member of the first team. It's not his fault we sometimes don't have the right players in the pivot.

[The only place to be 11,313]

We weren't playing with our backs against the wall in the first half where he was head and shoulders above everyone did we?

Second half performance wasn't completely down to our midfield being shit. It's the way we came out that set the tone for the rest of the game. I'm looking at the manager for the reason we performed badly in the second half. We dropped our intensity and allowed Arsenal to get back into the game.

Regardless, I think the stick he's been getting is unfair. He's a great asset to the side, and it's against the big teams, if we are set up properly and if he plays in his natural position, where he'll do the most damage.

Yes he had a poor game but my point is Ramires is still a valuable member of the first team. It's not his fault we sometimes don't have the right players in the pivot.

And that's the exact point. It's not his fault - he just isn't the player we need in the first team going forward.

We need a holding midfielder and a playmaker in the double pivot - he isn't either. He also isn't a right-winger but that doesn't mean he can't play a role in the squad.

[The Mak 4,459]

I think Ramires would be fantastic in a Mourinho sort of system. Counter-attack football with strong defence. This allows him to work aggressively defensively and affords him space to run in counter-attacks. Unfortunately for Ramires, we are not moving in that direction. He's a very good player on the right sort of team, I just don't see how he fits into a future Chelsea team.

And that's the exact point. It's not his fault - he just isn't the player we need in the first team going forward.

We need a holding midfielder and a playmaker in the double pivot - he isn't either. He also isn't a right-winger but that doesn't mean he can't play a role in the squad.

This! My sentiments exactly.

I love Rami to bits, but he just doesn't fit the system. He's a box-to-box CM - not a winger, attacking-midfielder or defensive-midfielder. Putting him in any role other than his natural position just limits his abilities; It's like shackling him.

Sadly, if we are determined to continue with 4-2-3-1, then he needs to be sold and the money used for a quality DM/DLP. We're not doing anyone any favours by just keeping him, a player we paid £17m+ for, and shoehorning him into unnatural positions just because he's a 'midfielder'.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Couldn't agree more. In the old 4-3-3 we played under Mourinho, he'd have been a perfect fit as an alternative to any of Mikel/Makelele/Essien/Ballack in behind Lampard.

However in the current side he is a square peg for a round hole. A top player and a great guy, but just not the player we need in our squad any longer, sadly. Not unless we get a new manager with a new style.

[edetarod 2,155]

" Ramires arrives from nowhere..."

[robsblubot 3,595]

He's been very poor, especially his passing.

needs to improve otherwise he will lose his place to... no one! Thin squad indeed!

[The Skipper 20,609]

Ramires has been good the last few games, bar one very bad game against City. Like I said before, it really isn't his fault we don't have a natural deep lying playmaker in the squad and it really isn't his fault that he gets shunted out wide.

[themightyblue 443]

2 good games now. Not a peep from the doubters

[The only place to be 11,313]

2 good games now. Not a peep from the doubters

I don't think anyone would say he isn't a decent enough player to look competent, good even, against Boro and West Brom (if we ignore how close we came to conceding against a West Brom team who were pretty toothless).

Or maybe they just focussed more on the performances of Chalobah and Ake in the last week - I find it has a calming effect if you catch yourself thinking about Mikel, Lamps or Ramires.

[Pacquiao 1,834]

its laughable that people actually would want Ramires to leave! :banghead:

[The only place to be 11,313]

its laughable that people actually would want Ramires to leave! :banghead:

I don't know if many people want him to leave, but I don't know many who would have him in their first XI for next season and think we could win the league.

As a player who could come off the bench when we're winning in the 70th minute, a bit like Mikel did on Saturday in the 90th, then sure why not. Maybe he even gets starts against the weaker teams, but beyond that I'm not sure.

Honestly, I've already got him pencilled behind Chalobah for a position in the midfield.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

I don't know if many people want him to leave, but I don't know many who would have him in their first XI for next season and think we could win the league.

As a player who could come off the bench when we're winning in the 70th minute, a bit like Mikel did on Saturday in the 90th, then sure why not. Maybe he even gets starts against the weaker teams, but beyond that I'm not sure.

Honestly, I've already got him pencilled behind Chalobah for a position in the midfield.

Very fair analysis, but in my opinion a little presumptuous over Nathaniel, who first needs a Premier League loan.

You're right in Ramires should stay - as a valuable squad player in the same category as someone like Salomon Kalou or Ryan Bertrand. His versatility is excellent - he can 'do a job' wide right in a 4-3-3, in either of the pivot positions, and as an emergency right-back should injuries to Ivanovic and Azpi occur.

Players of that versatility are effectively what win you titles, but I agree he isn't a good-enough player to feature in every game. The thing I like about him is his effort and work-rate, but it is his inability to perform basic functions such as incisive short-passing which really devalues him as a midfield player.

He definitely should not leave, though. He'd be a great squad player, just like Anderson is for Manchester United. It is having players like that who can come in and play mid-week games and then be a really strong option off the bench that wins you silverware as much as the goalkeeper or the star striker, in my view. You can't underestimate their importance.

I love Rambo and cannot fault his work-ethic and the fact he can play relatively well moreorless anywhere on a football pitch is a desirable trait. He just doesn't fit the dynamic of our current system well enough; he is like the size 7 shoe for the size 9 foot - a very uncomfortable fit indeed. As I said previously - square pegs and round holes.

[Pacquiao 1,834]

I don't know if many people want him to leave, but I don't know many who would have him in their first XI for next season and think we could win the league.

As a player who could come off the bench when we're winning in the 70th minute, a bit like Mikel did on Saturday in the 90th, then sure why not. Maybe he even gets starts against the weaker teams, but beyond that I'm not sure.

Honestly, I've already got him pencilled behind Chalobah for a position in the midfield.

I agree with everything you said except for the bit about Chalobah, in a 4-2-3-1 Rami isnt best suited in that system so if we bring in some world class players who can play in the double pivot next season then great, but people saying he should leave because he doesn't suit that system is something i cant get my head around he is such a useful player to have in the squad and still has many years ahead of him where he can improve on his weaknesses.

[themightyblue 443]

I don't think anyone would say he isn't a decent enough player to look competent, good even, against Boro and West Brom (if we ignore how close we came to conceding against a West Brom team who were pretty toothless).

Or maybe they just focussed more on the performances of Chalobah and Ake in the last week - I find it has a calming effect if you catch yourself thinking about Mikel, Lamps or Ramires.

He looked better than everyone bar Ake and Oscar against Boro and WBA are a very good team, and he once again had another good game. Had these been two poor performances people would have come on here and slated him straight away, but when he plays well nobody says anything. I'd also like to add although I rate Chalobah, put Ramires in the Championship in that Watford team and he'd look like a world-beater..........