Chelsea 0-1 Nottm Forest

[Clockwork 1,794]

Just now, robsblubot said:

I don't know: it's usually a bit more complicated than that IMO. I can hardly believe he wanted to face the PL with a U23 team.

IMO Chilwell is better than Mudryk in every aspect of the game. I can't speak to whether Mudryk will become employable in time, but right now I can't blame the manager for selecting the far better player available.

I can hardly believe we would back him to spend 170m on Lavia and Caicedo, and spend 45m on Palmer and 20-30 on youth players left and right. If he felt strongly about his lack of attacking options. We were one of the worst sides in the PL last season when it comes to scoring goals. 

Absolutely do not want to hear any excuse made for the manager. 

 

[robsblubot 3,595]

7 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

I can hardly believe we would back him to spend 170m on Lavia and Caicedo, and spend 45m on Palmer and 20-30 on youth players left and right. If he felt strongly about his lack of attacking options. We were one of the worst sides in the PL last season when it comes to scoring goals. 

Absolutely do not want to hear any excuse made for the manager. 

 

At the end of the day a manager is an employee. He can be let go on a whim.
One thing is a manager who's been at the club for many years, sometimes decades like Ferguson, but my point is that I don't think Poch would have a whole lot of say in how the club is run.

Perhaps he would refuse the millions for not being happy with something, but that's not how it works; he will collect his millions and try to make it work, if it doesn't, well he will still have his millions... win/win for him.

I don't think a big club like Chelsea is, or should be, really that dependent on the whims of any manger either.

Edited September 2, 2023 by robsblubot

[cdubzcfc86 2]

caicedo has been awful from the start, jackson isnt drogba and i dont know why hes so deluded that he and a lot of others compare him to didier ?? sanchez isnt a proper no,1, chillwell isnt a left winger, we looked better in preseason playing a formation that we havnt played once this actual season why ?? we have 4 points from 4 games now in the most competitive league in the world, if it continues at this rate we will end the season with 38 points lets not rule out championship football next season then ?? weve only beaten luton this season in the league and just about beat wimbledon in the cup midweek - luton shouldnt be in the PL and wimbledon are hardly a measurable opponent away against a billion pound team...  i knew after 5 mins of this game we wouldnt score today, why ??? time to have a good hard look at urselves lads - players, coaches, directors, owners - without the fans yous have nothing, this is embarrassing !!! sort it out and earn the support we give you!!

[Vegetable 830]

4 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

I can hardly believe we would back him to spend 170m on Lavia and Caicedo, and spend 45m on Palmer and 20-30 on youth players left and right. If he felt strongly about his lack of attacking options. We were one of the worst sides in the PL last season when it comes to scoring goals. 

Absolutely do not want to hear any excuse made for the manager. 

 

It was said here before and I quite agree with it, that the days of manager picking players are over, so no reason to think that Poch picked his favorite FM wonderkids and club paid 500 million for them. We got those 3 (and then 2) directors, data analysts and owners still having some say precisely to avoid the situation of managers picking players and then managers being sacked and club left with random players. Whether it works or not is another thing, but I guess Poch is being consulted about targets at best. It may be some collective work there, but I'm quite sure it's not like it was under Roman anymore. The wave of random youth is 100% corporate idea that Poch was publicly surprised with few times already.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Vegetable

[Blue Armour 4,459]

1 minute ago, Vegetable said:

To an extent. He was quite vocal publicly, that is quite high on corporate escalation ladder, about wanting some experienced players in the mix and he haven't gotten shit. I can't say I'm 100% convinced with any of our transfers, but while I hope for Jackson or Caicedo, who is terrible atm, to turn out good, I feel like Mudryk, Noni and Sanchez are quite sketchy moves that will burn us if they won't magically step up, and won't do it fast

This. 

I'm surprised that more people are turning on Poch, when the root cause has been the same problem that it's always been for the past year. It's the new administration.

The lack of experience is what makes for results like these. Colwill, Caicedo are all great players that can fulfill their potential in a few years. But there will be mistakes, and without leaders to control the game on the pitch., this will continue to happen.

And the inexperienced squad is down to the club, not Poch 

I keep bringing up Arsenal from Wengers last few seasons and after, because that's a good example for where we are right now. A factory of youth players that won fuck all.

Hopefully players like Enzo can be molded into leaders, that is, if they stick around with us after back to back seasons like this one.

[MoroccanBlue 5,385]

14 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

IMO Chilwell is better than Mudryk in every aspect of the game. I can't speak to whether Mudryk will become employable in time, but right now I can't blame the manager for selecting the far better player available.

I disagree mate. You see the passing map from this match? NOTHING from the left. A natural winger would've pushed their defensive line backwards and no matter how poor Mudryk has been his presence alone would've provided more attacking impetus. Mudryk doesn't get any minutes and we expect him to develop. All he gets are charity minutes. 10 minutes of these high intense situations and ask him to perform when there is immense pressure. 

 

[robsblubot 3,595]

Just now, MoroccanBlue said:

I disagree mate. You see the passing map from this match? NOTHING from the left. A natural winger would've pushed their defensive line backwards and no matter how poor Mudryk has been his presence alone would've provided more attacking impetus. Mudryk doesn't get any minutes and we expect him to develop. All he gets are charity minutes. 10 minutes of these high intense situations and ask him to perform when there is immense pressure. 

 

I don't disagree that Chilwell does not belong there.

Where I disagree strongly is regarding whether Mudryk should be anywhere near our starting XI. Right now he's one of the worst footballers I've seen play at this level. I'm talking Bakayoko level.
I do hope he improves, but why would I want to give minutes to a player w/ zero output in attack and defense? at least I know chilwell can defend.

[Clockwork 1,794]

7 minutes ago, Vegetable said:

It was said here before and I quite agree with it, that the days of manager picking players are over, so no reason to think that Poch picked his favorite FM wonderkids and club paid 500 million for them. We got those 3 (and then 2) directors, data analysts and owners still having some say precisely to avoid the situation of managers picking players and then managers being sacked and club left with random players. Whether it works or not is another thing, but I guess Poch is being consulted about targets at best. It may be some collective work there, but I'm quite sure it's not like it was under Roman anymore. 

You guys are making excuse for the manager, and not holding him accountable. You think Lewis Hall would be at Newcastle if Poch gave him playing time? He is a much better than Chilwill in the attacking phase.

Regardless of experience or whatever we look like shit playing football.  

There is no reason why we have two attacking outlets on the pitch against fucking Forest. 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Clockwork

[MoroccanBlue 5,385]

2 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

I don't disagree that Chilwell does not belong there.

Where I disagree strongly is regarding whether Mudryk should be anywhere near our starting XI. Right now he's one of the worst footballers I've seen play at this level. I'm talking Bakayoko level.
I do hope he improves, but why would I want to give minutes to a player w/ zero output in attack and defense? at least I know chilwell can defend.

Then Maatsen, Sterling on the left with Madueke on the right, Jackson on the left with Sterling as a false 9, FUCKING ANYTHING. 

I'm just venting right now. Liverpool made sense, virtually no excuse these past three matches. 

Edited September 2, 2023 by MoroccanBlue

[robsblubot 3,595]

Just now, Clockwork said:

You guys are making excuse for the manager, and not holding him accountable. You think Lewis Hall would be at Newcastle if Poch gave him playing time? He is a much better than Chilwill in the attacking phase.

Regardless of experience or whatever we look like shit playing football.  

Manager has just arrived. I'm old enough to have seen this over and over again in different leagues and countries.

It's always the manager when the team is not good enough, and/or w too many changes from previous seasons.

We are playing the PL with an Olympic football team (u23 + 3 senior players); let that sink in.

[cosmicway 1,333]

The giveaway goals is some problem but what is happening here is this team can't score.
Some people here talk about the midfield but it's not relevant to this situation.
For last season I can name only City as a team with definitely better midfield than ours (Arsenal too if you force me).
Everybody here have been watching football since the days of Harry Auretnik and the 2-3-5 system.
You know that to score against a packed defense it takes a rugby tackle situation. Wen you are 1-0 up you often see some more fancy goals but it always takes a rugby situation.
So it is under this constraint you should tell me what is wrong. It cannot be just Jackson who shot into the sky after 88 minutes. because we have been witnessing the same things from Kai Havertz last year.
But something is terribly wrong and this certainly was n't the case with Diego-Cesc, or with Eden-Olivier a little later.

[robsblubot 3,595]

1 minute ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Then Maatsen, Sterling on the left with Madueke on the right, Jackson on the left with Sterling as a false 9, FUCKING ANYTHING. 

I'm just venting right now. Liverpool made sense, virtually no excuse these past three matches. 

Sure, but it's literally up to the manager to decide whether there is anything better than Chilwell there.
Madueke right now is also a terrible footballer and should be nowhere near our starting XI: head down dribbler w/ zero attacking output.

Between Madueke and Chilwell, Chilwell for me.

[MoroccanBlue 5,385]

3 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

 

Between Madueke and Chilwell, Chilwell for me.

That's a wild take mate but w/e. 

[Vegetable 830]

6 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

You guys are making excuse for the manager, and not holding him accountable. You think Lewis Hall would be at Newcastle if Poch gave him playing time? He is a much better than Chilwill in the attacking phase.

Regardless of experience or whatever we look like shit playing football.  

There is no reason why we have two attacking outlets on the pitch against fucking Forest. 

I'm not even sure if I have any strong opinion on either the manager or the team itself personally. I hate trusting the process, but at the moment I don't trust anyone and anything really - Poch was laughed off here for years as the notorious loser. He had a chance to show off with PSG, but they have their own issues. He had a chance to show off with better team here, but we have wiped out the entire team since his arrival. I think he deserves at least 1/3 of what Potter had to tinker around, as we are literally playing the junior team, something I only ever heard relegation teams doing for last bit of season so far, and I'm not sure, despite their cost, that those guys are winning PL this year.

Thing is, that we all knew, watching the "rebuilding",  it will be a painful season and we will be terrible for a bit. Yet we deeply wanted to believe we are wrong and somehow things will go against the logic, but they aren't and here we are frustrated that things are exactly as we thought they will be. At the moment, I'm hoping we will get the traction before the new year tbh.

[Clockwork 1,794]

8 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

Manager has just arrived. I'm old enough to have seen this over and over again in different leagues and countries.

It's always the manager when the team is not good enough, and/or w too many changes from previous seasons.

We are playing the PL with an Olympic football team (u23 + 3 senior players); let that sink in.

Football is not that complicated, it is not not hard to see atrocious football when you see it. 

Do you realize we are playing our softest schedule all season? If it is this bad now wait until October when our schedule picks up drastically. We are in trouble if this doesn't pick up. We are playing at a level closer to relegation than CL.

Don't care if it is Poch or the buffoons from Brighton. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,385]

We always have a manager that thinks they are a tactico with these fucking lopsided lineups/tactics. Just keep it simple for fucks sake, that is all we are asking. Use the players at your disposal and please start solving the goal scoring issue by not fielding more defenders. 

[Clockwork 1,794]

7 minutes ago, Vegetable said:

I'm not even sure if I have any strong opinion on either the manager or the team itself personally. I hate trusting the process, but at the moment I don't trust anyone and anything really - Poch was laughed off here for years as the notorious loser. He had a chance to show off with PSG, but they have their own issues. He had a chance to show off with better team here, but we have wiped out the entire team since his arrival. I think he deserves at least 1/3 of what Potter had to tinker around, as we are literally playing the junior team, something I only ever heard relegation teams doing for last bit of season so far, and I'm not sure, despite their cost, that those guys are winning PL this year.

Thing is, that we all knew, watching the "rebuilding",  it will be a painful season and we will be terrible for a bit. Yet we deeply wanted to believe we are wrong and somehow things will go against the logic, but they aren't and here we are frustrated that things are exactly as we thought they will be. At the moment, I'm hoping we will get the traction before the new year tbh.

I personally do not believe a team just gets drastically better because of experience and playing together, they can get better to a certain degree i am not underrating that aspect of team football.

Any example of any team rebuild be it be Kloop, Arteta, Pep, etc. I will show you how they got better because of players being purchased. For me so far it shows lack of good managing or if you want to blame it on the Admins that shows terrible team building.

This shit is so frustrating spending 1B and still looking like shit.  

[cdubzcfc86 2]

4 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

We always have a manager that thinks they are a tactico with these fucking lopsided lineups/tactics. Just keep it simple for fucks sake, that is all we are asking. Use the players at your disposal and please start solving the goal scoring issue by not fielding more defenders. 

we looked great in preseason playing the 4-2-3-1 why have we not played this formation at any point this season ??

it almost seems easy to pick a balanced team in that formation from our squad...

[Clockwork 1,794]

10 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

We always have a manager that thinks they are a tactico with these fucking lopsided lineups/tactics. Just keep it simple for fucks sake, that is all we are asking. Use the players at your disposal and please start solving the goal scoring issue by not fielding more defenders. 

Exactly how complicated is it, to understand that to score goals you need numbers in the box and have the right personal to create and shoot in the final end. I do not want Enzo at the end to be shooting or Chilwill. 

[cdubzcfc86 2]

18 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

Exactly how complicated is it, to understand that to score goals you need numbers in the box and have the right personal to create and shoot in the final end. I do not want Enzo at the end to be shooting or Chilwill. 

Enzo's shooting has been weak - take nothing away from his midfield play which has been unreal, even his goal against wimbledon kinda trickled into the net.. chilly looks afraid to shoot - indecisive at best but as a senior player and VC needs to show more leadership.. gallagher for me at the min looks like our best option for picking up the shots running into the box.. that said we dont have a proper no.9 that is constantly pushing opposition CB's deep to create space running in - jackson is out of position too much in that sense, the loan striker needs to be occupying the CB's in every formation weve played if goals are going to come from elsewhere.. it really takes an experienced, prolific striker to play the way potch is trying to play or it cant work...