Chelsea Transfers

[robsblubot 3,349]

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

If he stays and intends to walk to United next summer he'll have to perform so it's win win really.

He's currently getting the benefit of the doubt for the last 18 months due to everything that's gone on at the club but if he's still playing bad in a more stable environment questions will start to be asked, like is this another Dele Alli situation?

England might be a good leverage on that. We could freeze him out until he leaves, which could hurt his chances with England.

That should've been done earlier, but might still work some... some leverage I suppose.

No point in "investing" on a player who's about to leave.

Edited June 16, 2023 by robsblubot

[chelsea_4_eva 1,143]

I'm surpised the arab clubs aren't after Ziyech, he did have an amazing run in the WC.

[Stats 7,011]

5 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

He really is not a complete midfielder. Quite the opposite. 

Lampard, Ballack, Gerard were  what I consider complete midfielders. The technique, the tactical ability, physicality, passing range, leadership, huge quantifiable impact on both ends of the pitch, controlling, dominating the play in midfield.
Caicedo is far from that. He doesn’t score or assist goals. His technique, esp his first touch is average, he lacks tactical anticipation. He doesn’t head the ball well, he is not ambipedal, his passing range is inconsistent. His strengths are tackling, tenacity, stamina. Nothing else is really close to being on an elite level. A rather limited player. If you spend 80m on a player with one top league season under his belt he better should have shown more in those than a few decent tackles. Granted he is still young and seems to have the right attitude but he is not good enough to help us to the level where we should be. I doubt he ever will be. More often than not midfield is where the game is won. If our recruiting strategy continues to be throwing tons of cash at flavour of the month players from hipster clubs like Brighton we will be waiting a long time for our first major post-Roman title. 

He is much more complete than Kante in his overall game. His technique actually is very good. He rarely gets bullied off the ball as he has brilliant upper body strength too. His long range passing is very good too. He isnt a Fabregas but a lot better on the ball than Kante. Better passing range too. I think he is fantastic and will only get better and better.

[ulsterchelsea 3,213]

Saudis after ziyech now 🙏🏻

[Vesper 27,769]

1 hour ago, TheHulk said:

It says Veiga is alternative in case we fail with Caicedo.

they are very different types of players

[Vesper 27,769]

1 hour ago, ulsterchelsea said:

Who and who? Admittedly I don't follow other leagues but why have we stopped trying to sign proven players. Gonna have a team full of young lads with no leaders or experience between the most of them

Jackson is a bit of a wild card (not slating him), but Gabri Veiga has most all the top clubs on the planet interested

[Mhsc 735]

Says it all about why our season was so bad when you see how many important first team players are saying they want nothing to do with us anymore: Kovacic, Havertz, Mount…

TBH just want a squad of players that really went to be here and fight for us and live their dream of being at Chelsea. Rather be outside of the top 4 for the next years than deal with another squad of cunts.

[LAM09 6,622]

20 hours ago, robsblubot said:

I merely asked you not to put words in my mouth, which you certainly did. It's fucking pretty annoying tbh.

I've been watching World Cups for decades, and I will stick to my opinion. Morocco was indeed the most tactically disciplined African nation I've ever seen. Perhaps Cameroon came close before, with Milla, but that was more of a counter-attacking side. Those were the glaring exceptions, I'm afraid. Now, like I said, this is all acquired knowledge, so there is certainly evolution, just not as fast as was once predicted. The moment that's not the case anymore, then it's not the case, again IMO. 🤷‍♂️

Winning can definitely speed up that evolution tenfold...

What do you think would happen if Mbappe's family had moved to the USA instead of France? do you really think he'd be what he is today? This is the example to emphasize the point. I'd go further and suggest Mbappe also wouldn't be what he is today had his family moved to Mexico, despite football being the main sport there.

I quoted your post in response to another user, so I've addressed that already. I apologise if my post wasn't identical to how you worded yours, but that's the vibe I and clearly other users got.

Another topic I touched upon - Players based in the major countries in Europe will develop at a much faster rate than those elsewhere, for obvious reasons. Using the USA as a pointer is odd considering football or soccer is still irrelevant for the most part. However, to partially answer your question, he probably wouldn't have developed at the rate he did, but there's no telling how quickly we would have adapted to European football considering someone with his skillset would have been bought in his mid teens, similar to Alphonso Davis.

Alphonso Davis is probably the best example, having thought about it. Someone born in Africa moved to Canada at a young age (goes with your thinking) and was bought by Bayern at 17. Would his career have been different if he had been born in Spain?

[Tomo 21,709]

57 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

England might be a good leverage on that. We could freeze him out until he leaves, which could hurt his chances with England.

That should've been done earlier, but might still work some... some leverage I suppose.

No point in "investing" on a player who's about to leave.

I disagree, if he does actually refind his 2021 self it would very much be in our best interests to play him. If we took the same stance with Rudiger it would have ended disastrously.

[Mhsc 735]

https://theathletic.com/4617499/2023/06/16/Chelsea-transfer-nicolas-jackson/

Looks pretty serious that we are signing Nicolas Jackson.

[Clockwork 1,794]

5 minutes ago, Mhsc said:

https://theathletic.com/4617499/2023/06/16/Chelsea-transfer-nicolas-jackson/

Looks pretty serious that we are signing Nicolas Jackson.

Like I said he ended the season with 9 goals in 8 matches. Great finisher. Both Jackson and Viega is up there.

 

[DDA 9,570]

I like the look of this Jackson fella. Not sure I see the comparisons with Batshuayi... he looks far better on the ball. 

He needs work to lead the line of a top club though.

[Mário César 907]

 

 

 

[Pizy 18,023]

So unless Fofana goes out on loan we’re going to have 3 pretty raw, relatively inexperienced strikers who are 21 years old? Seems like one hell of a risk for such an important position. You’d think a new manager coming in would want a more trusted, “ready made” option that can instantly hit the ground running.

Nicolas Jackson looks very talented but as I mentioned this morning, he feels like the sort of player a traditional midtable side like West Ham, Everton, or Villa make. Clubs where the expectations aren’t massive and they can take a season or two to grow and develop.

I guess what should lessen the pressure is the price tag being very reasonable.

[robsblubot 3,349]

27 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

I quoted your post in response to another user, so I've addressed that already. I apologise if my post wasn't identical to how you worded yours, but that's the vibe I and clearly other users got.

Another topic I touched upon - Players based in the major countries in Europe will develop at a much faster rate than those elsewhere, for obvious reasons. Using the USA as a pointer is odd considering football or soccer is still irrelevant for the most part. However, to partially answer your question, he probably wouldn't have developed at the rate he did, but there's no telling how quickly we would have adapted to European football considering someone with his skillset would have been bought in his mid teens, similar to Alphonso Davis.

Alphonso Davis is probably the best example, having thought about it. Someone born in Africa moved to Canada at a young age (goes with your thinking) and was bought by Bayern at 17. Would his career have been different if he had been born in Spain?

Thank you. I too apologize given that my poor wording implied something else entirely, but again, that was not my intention. I think the person you responded to did not read it in the same light, but still it was poorly worded. The "not nice" part is because I'm yet to know someone who likes and welcomes criticism esp in football -- had a similar post about Irish football once.

Yeah, what you write above is and was exactly what I was getting at from the get go. Which actually came from talking about Caicedo and Ecuador, at least in my mind. Like Caicedo has to become the best Ecuador player in history to reach the expectations we have with him. Then again, is he an Ecuador player? How much development has he had in England vs Ecuador?

That's exactly why players from, speaking of my own backyard now, say Brazil lose value as they age. It's not just that that their ceiling becomes easier to read, but also that it's less time that -- the supposedly bigger clubs w/ better coaching and infra -- will have to develop such player. They think, and I tend to agree, that working with them, the player will have a better chance to reach their potential.

I've heard different takes from professionals in this area (player development) tho; like if a player from the small side is better than the one you got, then let the one you got go, and get the player from the small club, because he's behind in fitness and mental aspects at the very least. Others say it's not like that, that the player you developed for a long time will has a better "core" from the one from the smaller side/footballing nation. 

"Bayern at 17. Would his career have been different if he had been born in Spain?"

Not but that's the thing, reaching Bayern at 17 makes his origin not much relevant. Like, it's early enough that Bayern will have a big influence in his development as a footballer. I totally understand that there are a number of different variables at player, some intangible, but I'm speaking as a general rule, and as these big clubs think.

[bluesman2610 1,290]

Why are we so high on Giving more money to Brighton. F them. We should go for Lavia or Kone to partner Enzo in the middle. They are far cheaper and to me look way more polished as players

[robsblubot 3,349]

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

I disagree, if he does actually refind his 2021 self it would very much be in our best interests to play him. If we took the same stance with Rudiger it would have ended disastrously.

Maybe. I'm often torn in these scenarios.

It's the immediate vs long term...team vs club.

Letting players dictate things like Mount and others are doing, without any show of strength, can establish precedent, which can be used by other players (esp their agents) in the future.

Edited June 16, 2023 by robsblubot

[Pizy 18,023]

Ornstein is the first one to mention Tonali and Barella as potential targets. But two of the best Italian players playing at two of the biggest Italian clubs makes it difficult for me to see them 1- agree to leave and 2- their clubs agree to sell them. 

Barella speaks for himself. Would be a great signing for anyone in the PL. I was pretty impressed with Tonali when we played Milan even though they were pretty damn poor overall as a team. His tenacity and energy stuck out.