🇩🇪 Kai Havertz

[Rekin 835]

11 hours ago, Puliiszola said:

Hazard was 21 too, did not set the league on fire, but the talent was apparent by just looking at him play once or twice. Nothing so far with havertz.

Hazard is a completely different type of player than Havertz. His playing style was a good fit for both PL and the team Chelsea had back then. 

 

[Tomo 21,751]

11 hours ago, Puliiszola said:

Hazard was 21 too, did not set the league on fire, but the talent was apparent by just looking at him play once or twice. Nothing so far with havertz.

Needs to be assessed on a case by case basis. Hazard may have been relatively ace from the get go but some players (who turn out great) take a bit more time. Lampard, CR7, Henry, Pires, De Gea to name an obvious few.

[DANILA 290]

really hope he picks it up - right now his best play is passing it backwards. Really want to love him 

[Puliiszola 519]

1 hour ago, Rekin said:

Hazard is a completely different type of player than Havertz. His playing style was a good fit for both PL and the team Chelsea had back then. 

 

Hazard's playing style NEVER suited or was in sync with chelsea's playing style. He was someone who thrives on having the ball, and he had to play under Rafa, Jose, Conte - 3 defensive minded coaches. Who were probably more worried about him tracking back and defending than his output in front of the goal. 

[Puliiszola 519]

57 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Needs to be assessed on a case by case basis. Hazard may have been relatively ace from the get go but some players (who turn out great) take a bit more time. Lampard, CR7, Henry, Pires, De Gea to name an obvious few.

Fair. Hope he picks it up. As of this moment, changing our formation, style of play and everything to suit him is a great show of faith by FL. Hope he repays him sooner rather than later. Knowing Roman and the board, there might not be a later.

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

31 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

Fair. Hope he picks it up. As of this moment, changing our formation, style of play and everything to suit him is a great show of faith by FL. Hope he repays him sooner rather than later. Knowing Roman and the board, there might not be a later.

The problem is, if you play with a no 10 your offense is screwed if the no 10 does not perform. You can’t afford your playmaker wandering out of the game. On the rare occasion teams managed to mark Lamps completely out of the game like Liverpool did in the 2005 and 2007 cL semis, we looked really ordinary. 
The no 10 needs to be backed and the players work for him to get his passes into the danger area. 
This means if we now fire lamps as manager we need to make sure that his successor has a similar vision otherwise we will never get maximum out of our biggest signing 

[communicate 2,703]

I think there is a high expectation for kai which is justified due to his fee. But from what I have seen so far he is pretty much jack of all trade master of none.

We paid 80 m for potential. He is good at pretty much everything but he is not elite at anything, unlike player like Werner who is pretty much an elite channel speedster. 

Hence until Kai develop elite skill, it is difficult for him to be very2 consistent hence you will see many game where he wow you but many games that you think he should have done better. 

[King Kante 1,643]

Some people around here make me laugh. What exactly were they expecting from a 21 year old who had no pre-season to do when coming to a new country with a team that is in transition? Kai will be fine, you just need to give him some time, the bloke was never coming in and going to play like prime SFL within 10 games, especially as if you had seen him before you would've known that he is a slow starter to seasons and he isn't the most robust. This season for him is about acclimatisation.

Personally, I set him a target of 15 goals in all competitions and around 5-10 assists. He looks like he is going to beat that on his current form. 

[Puliiszola 519]

100m for someone who can't fucking shield the ball and made luke fucking Shaw look world class. 

Unbelievable. I am sorry, but I don't see the hype around him AT ALL. His basics are poor, has no idea how to shield a ball, can't use his 6 foot + frame. I am sorry, that's unacceptable. 

Imo, we have bought a player for 100m who is hardly looking as an upgrade on Mason mount who we love to hate for some reason that is beyond me. 

I hope he proves me wrong, but he has miles to go and improve. And if FL keeps him as a focal point for our attack, we are going to suffer.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

I don't know if Lampards tactics is hindering him or hes just poor.

Ive not been too impressed except against that championship side we won. 

Let's hope he adapts to the league and improves 

[Yeboii 1,844]

43 minutes ago, kellzfresh said:

I don't know if Lampards tactics is hindering him or hes just poor.

Ive not been too impressed except against that championship side we won. 

Let's hope he adapts to the league and improves 

Being 21 with a team still gelling in. New league, language and culture in the hardest league of them all for a pretty timid guy. Often restricted to the wings.

When he has been playing as a 10 and the team has been more organized in the middle and attack he has been a focal point of some very nice moves.

[Jase 43,479]

13 minutes ago, Yeboii said:

Being 21 with a team still gelling in. New league, language and culture in the hardest league of them all for a pretty timid guy. Often restricted to the wings.

When he has been playing as a 10 and the team has been more organized in the middle and attack he has been a focal point of some very nice moves.

The problem is, we don't dominate games enough, like really impose ourselves on the opposition for players like Havertz to shine. With the exception of the Palace game (and I guess the Barnsley one as well), we have either been playing too defensively or been involved in basketball games with next to control for players like him to hurt the opposition. 

[Special Juan 28,141]

Looks half a sleep and coasting through games

[killer1257 3,282]

He is a slow starter. Also, it does not help that we play more defensive football than Leverkusen lol

Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk

[Puliiszola 519]

44 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

He is a slow starter. Also, it does not help that we play more defensive football than Leverkusen lol

Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk
 

Playing defensive football has nothing to do with it. 

Nothing FL can/has done can impact a player's ability to do BASIC, which is shield the ball. Everything else can be over looked or excused (poor decision making, looking half arsed, slow on the turn etc etc), but can't excuse something as simple as getting dispossessed time and again. 

[NikkiCFC 8,324]

Are we that impatient? He is midfielder who gives you 20 goals per season. This is so rare.

He is been played out of position today and in first two games against Brighton and Pool. In other games he had 4 goals, one assist and one penalty won.

But yes he is a slow starter, not on 50% yet.

Last season with Bayer he had 3 goals and 1 assist from August to January but from late January till end of the season he added 15 goals and 8 assists in just 24 games.

None of our front 4 has been great this season but I expect them to step up in the coming weeks.

[The Skipper 20,609]

Lampard genuinely isn't helping by more often than not playing him.out wide. Our midfield is so unstable that we can't even afford to play Havertz in his best position right now. In the last few games he's mostly been shafted out wide, where he is usually isolated and doesn't have any runners or options to progress play. 

Lampard is effectively using him in a role where someone like Ziyech or even CHO would be more effective. He needs to play in the middle of the pitch, so he can get up to speed with how to do this in the Premier League. I would like to see him become more of a midfield general that dictates play, but also be a real threat around the box. He has the talent to be the team's offensive brain but he needs more time in these sort of positions. 

It's hard because our midfield is truly overrated - we don't really have a traditional DM and our B2B players offer no real Final third threat. I wish Kanté had the ability to really be comfortable sitting in front of the defence and that maybe Kovacic could be the connector, but it doesn't really seem to be that solid of a midfield between them. Same with Jorginho. This means that Kai doesn't have a solid consistent base to play off. 

This is one of the very big questions Lampard has to solve. 

I would like to see him try out a pivot of Mount and Kanté some time. Also, Gilmour coming back soon might help. 

[blues.bridge 343]

complaining about him!
he isn't which type of player who is only dribbling and can play alone! He is a team player, who can be the advanced brain of the team! For now is almost always played out of his position, in a team without idea of play, without midfield and more other! And several is complaining about him? he will finish like KDB! IMO Lampard win or lose, if he doesn't start to show some play and teamplay have to go out, and took  a good menager (like nagelsmann to see one who can be taken and not impossible)

[blues.bridge 343]

A note: Havertz should put some physical.
For the rest, i don't understand who is complaining about him!
he isn't which type of player who is only dribbling and can play alone! He is a team player, who can be the advanced brain of the team! For now is almost always played out of his position, in a team without idea of play, without midfield and more other! And several is complaining about him? he will finish like KDB! IMO Lampard win or lose, if he doesn't start to show some play and teamplay have to go out, and took  a good menager (like nagelsmann to see one who can be taken and not impossible)

[Puliiszola 519]

1 hour ago, NikkiCFC said:

Are we that impatient? He is midfielder who gives you 20 goals per season. This is so rare.

He is been played out of position today and in first two games against Brighton and Pool. In other games he had 4 goals, one assist and one penalty won.

But yes he is a slow starter, not on 50% yet.

Last season with Bayer he had 3 goals and 1 assist from August to January but from late January till end of the season he added 15 goals and 8 assists in just 24 games.

None of our front 4 has been great this season but I expect them to step up in the coming weeks.

Hmmm. 

I checked some of his stats from last season. It seems that he played majority of the latter part of the last season as a RW or a false 9 which might have led to the number of goals and assists. So it's not like he is playing a position unknown to him. 

Also, people are not "impatient". If that was true, Werner would have been getting some stick too. People are willing to give him time because they actually see some genuine quality in him. Werner's movement is great, something which will be used as a weapon more and more when our front 4 and mid play with each other. Plus he can build and improve his game around that aspect.

The issue with Kai is, what am I supposed to impressed by with him? He can't even hold on to the ball. That's got nothing to do with being a slow starter or a fast starter. That's the most basic and obvious skill any footballer would have. If a footballer has issues with shielding and holding onto the ball, that's a sign for worry, all the goals and assists is way down the priority.