Timo Werner

[Jase 43,479]

5 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

I know but for me, he doesn’t look like someone who is ever going to be capable of doing anything more than just being this player who is doing the little he is doing at this rate. Game by game, its just accumulating for me, the more games I watch of us with him playing I struggle to see why he is in the team because he virtually does nothing that affects the game for us most of the time. Ok he has pace and thats good for our attacking transition but what else does he bring to the team? Maybe he gets in behind teams defensive lines at times (lets be honest any striker/attacker playing in the PL should be capable of this) but its not as if he even makes lots and lots of these runs a game or that he makes chances for others from open play very often when he drifts out wider or does anything else that makes you think you know what I hope he’s playing today because he can add something to the team. 

Should have known an essay-esque reply was coming! 

Okay, he might not be the most brilliant of players but how do you expect Werner to even affect games if we don't play to his strengths? How many times have we seen make the runs forward but isn't spotted with an early pass for example? If you look back and think through the games, how many chances do we even create overall and/or specifically for Werner? It's not as if all the teams we play just sit back and camp in their own box against us by the way. You have games where teams come at us and there's space to exploit and then games where, okay, teams sit back a bit more but there are still moments of transition to exploit, for example. I really wish we have a peak Fabregas in this team instead of Jorginho/Kovacic because I want to see what would have happened.

Werner is part of the attacking problems that we have but how is he made like he's the only one not making chances for others from open play? If you're gonna criticize an attacker for not creating chances from open play, then maybe you should look at someone like Mount instead, someone that @NikkiCFC has constantly ranted about. Werner is not a creative player and yet, he has the most assists in all competitions this season (8 excluding penalties; 11 otherwise), is second on our list for shot creation and first on our list for goal-creating actions (e.g. passes, dribbles, drawing fouls) - both from open play - in the league. He was bought to score goals but somehow, has actually outperformed the supposedly more creative players in the team when it comes to creating chances. 

34 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

I mean he set Mount up with a 4 or 5 yard pass v WBA but I mean he could of easily scored that himself. The feint to put the defender down was impressive to be honest but why has he not just let it come across his body or used his instep to guide it in to the right hand side of the goal? Giroud or Abraham would of shot and scored that from Alonso’s ball I think. I mean the defenders there but the GK had left him basically the whole right side of the goal. Fuck half the team would of probably got it in. Says a lot about how confident he is and whilst there is trying to play someone through a slump to try end a goal drought, we are talking 1 PL goal in 20 games slump, 14 games, few performances where you think this guy can do something, scores once, then back to being well pretty much you wouldnt miss him if he wasnt in the team and you dont really notice him when he is. And unfortunately hes not the first striker we have had this happen to either. I mean I dont want to compare him to Torres because thats unfair and not completely accurate but I still dont get why he didn’t shoot from that Alonso ball, look at where the GK was and the amount of space to the keepers left. Its basically 2/3s of the net. All he had to do was get it to the corner. That was Torres-esque. Scared to shoot because hes scared to miss.

I said this in the match thread yesterday, I do not know if he was scared to take the shot or did he make the right, unselfish decision to pass it to Mount because there's a defender and keeper closing him down. You can imagine the headlines if he had gone for the shot and failed to score. That might just destroy him completely, especially after the Macedonia game. A 100% confident Werner would have gone for himself, I suspect, but as it transpired, you could argue that he at least still has the clarity of thought to control the ball and pass it to Mount (the pass wasn't exactly the best either) instead of completely shitting himself in front of goal. 

41 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Strikers having a quiet game or a few a season is understandable or even going through a wee bad spell but strikers having quiet games where you forget their even playing or poor games consistently is not good. Or not scoring in the league in 14 games. Then scoring once and not scoring for another 6 games currently. If thats not worrying or if you can’t see why people are maybe digging him out then I dont know. Its not just yesterdays game. Everyone was poor we all know that. Nobody is going to deny he wasn’t the worst player on the pitch but majority of the other games with Tuchel , which he has started, theres no doubts about it as to why people are questioning his inclusion every week. 

See my points above on this. 

Not going to sit here and say Werner has been brilliant under Tuchel because he hasn't but when he's contributed to goals - be it scoring himself, albeit only one, assisting others or winning penalties - it's hard for Tuchel to really drop him, especially when our attack has hardly been brilliant and we have been winning some games because of those contributions. On top of that, it's not as if the others were playing good in any shape or form to deserve to be in the XI. Havertz, Ziyech, Pulisic were all in their own bad form and had their injury problems to boot. 

49 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

I know Tuchel can say he just needs to be patient, he knows how to score, the whole sometimes you give a women space/back off and she will call you thing etc bla bla bla but Giroud and Abraham may as well be playing with the u18s if they seriously cannot convince Tuchel to play them either in tandem or instead of him, it would be near impossible for any of them to come in and do considerably worse than what we have generally gotten from Werner since the end of November bar the odd hopeful moment or two every now and then.

For the most part, think Tuchel has made the right selection to play Werner upfront against certain teams/matches like Liverpool at Anfield or the CL second leg against Atletico Madrid. Abraham or Giroud wouldn't have been able to do what Werner did in those games. So really, apart from such games, Werner was competing with Pulisic, Ziyech etc for one of the left/right positions in the front 3.

I do not know why Tuchel hasn't tried to play Werner and Abraham alongside more upfront considering they seemed to have formed a decent partnership earlier this season and Werner was in goalscoring form back then. But Tuchel doesn't fancy Abraham and on the other hand, let's not also pretend Abraham is a great #9 either. Even you have doubts over him. As for Giroud, if he doesn't score, he really contributes next to nothing. He hardly has assists or any sort of goal and shot creation stats to even back him up. Plus, it's getting obvious that Tuchel prefers someone with mobility, pace, link-up play etc to lead the line, especially when he has gone for Havertz as the False 9 of late.

[Vesper 27,386]

11 hours ago, Jason said:

Should have known an essay-esque reply was coming! 

 

lol, then you write a novella in reply

👁️

[killer1257 3,282]

He had 9 touches in the first half. If that was Tammy playing in the first half with that kind of performance, he would have been subbed off. Tuchel loves Werner so much 😂

[Tomo 21,685]

5 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

He had 9 touches in the first half. If that was Tammy playing in the first half with that kind of performance, he would have been subbed off. Tuchel loves Werner so much 😂

Well every big game win under Tuchel so far Werner has started. So his inclusion is clearly working in these type of games.

[Dan Lee 47]

We should not use him for now. We do have other players that can perform better. Why stick with him?

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,764]

He played better than Kai.....

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, Dan Lee said:

We should not use him for now. We do have other players that can perform better. Why stick with him?

Not defending Werner here but who else has performed so outstandingly that they deserve to be in the XI week in week out?

If we want to talk about what each player can do, then we know what Werner can do at his best, we know what Pulisic can do at his best, we know what Ziyech can do at his best and the list goes on. But who exactly right now is even performing to their best of abilities if we're being honest? Some will maybe have 1-2 good games, some will show flashes here and there. That's it. No one is showing the "I SHOULD BE IN THE XI EVERY WEEK" performance.

[Tomo 21,685]

9 minutes ago, Jason said:

Not defending Werner here but who else has performed so outstandingly that they deserve to be in the XI week in week out?

If we want to talk about what each player can do, then we know what Werner can do at his best, we know what Pulisic can do at his best, we know what Ziyech can do at his best and the list goes on. But who exactly right now is even performing to their best of abilities if we're being honest? Some will maybe have 1-2 good games, some will show flashes here and there. That's it. No one is showing the "I SHOULD BE IN THE XI EVERY WEEK" performance.

Maybe I've officially gone mad but I really don't think he's playing that badly. Inexcusable goal drought for sure but he's still been contributing and making key assists (case in point last round Vs Leti).

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, Tomo said:

Maybe I've officially gone mad but I really don't think he's playing that badly. Inexcusable goal drought for sure but he's still been contributing and making key assists (case in point last round Vs Leti).

Have you not been reading my posts on Werner lately? 🤣

[Azul 1,615]

28 minutes ago, Jason said:

Not defending Werner here but who else has performed so outstandingly that they deserve to be in the XI week in week out?

If we want to talk about what each player can do, then we know what Werner can do at his best, we know what Pulisic can do at his best, we know what Ziyech can do at his best and the list goes on. But who exactly right now is even performing to their best of abilities if we're being honest? Some will maybe have 1-2 good games, some will show flashes here and there. That's it. No one is showing the "I SHOULD BE IN THE XI EVERY WEEK" performance.

This is sad😂😂😂😂 

Your stubbornness is Mourinho levels.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Azul

[Jase 43,479]

38 minutes ago, Azul said:

This is sad😂😂😂😂 

Your stubbornness is Mourinho levels.

[DDA 9,570]

Honestly, we should not start Werner until the end of the season. He's had enough chances. Use him as a sub when teams are tired and he can burn them up with pace. 

[Azul 1,615]

5 minutes ago, DDA said:

Honestly, we should not start Werner until the end of the season. He's had enough chances. Use him as a sub when teams are tired and he can burn them up with pace. 

I say we should give CHO a run of games on the left. Pulisic is too injury prone to be relied on. CHO against Everton was very very good, and I don't understand why he did not get a chance on the left wing ever since that game. 

The argument people use that "no one is putting in good performances to bench Werner" is so low-iq. What has Werner done to be considered a definite starter? Besides it's not like everyone else had the same amount of games Werner had to prove themselves. 

Werner should be benched not only for the benefit of his confidence but also for the benefit of the team. Starting him when he's this bad right now will not change anything, but if he sits on the bench he might get the rest mentally that he needed.

[Jase 43,479]

9 minutes ago, Azul said:

The argument people use that "no one is putting in good performances to bench Werner" is so low-iq. What has Werner done to be considered a definite starter?

Okay...the point I was trying to make is not "no one is putting in good performances to bench Werner". It is that no one is actually doing that consistently, even Werner himself. Everyone of our attackers has done good here and there or shown flashes here and there. Because of that, it's come down to Tuchel choosing what he sees best for the game, opposition etc instead of "right, he must play because he has been consistent". That's the point I was trying make. Whether Tuchel has made the right selection or not is another debate. 

[Azul 1,615]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

Okay...the point I was trying to make is not "no one is putting in good performances to bench Werner". It is that no one is actually doing that consistently, even Werner himself. Everyone of our attackers has done good here and there or shown flashes here and there. Because of that, it's come down to Tuchel choosing what he sees best for the game, opposition etc instead of "right, he must play because he has been consistent". That's the point I was trying make. Whether Tuchel has made the right selection or not is another debate. 

Consistency is not possible when you don't have a run games. It's clear that Werner has been given a run of games, and he has not been good enough. The rest have not been good enough, but they've not been as bad with the limited amount of time they've had. 

It's very easy to understand, but you're being stubborn here. Werner has zero confidence right now, he should be benched and someone else like CHO should be given a run in the left forward position. If CHO is not up for it then Pulisic, and if both of them are shit after we've given them the same opportunities that Werner had then fair enough. 

Do you still believe Werner should start by the way? Even after you've seen him this month? Come on @Jason man, stop being stubborn for the sake of it. You know better.

[Jase 43,479]

15 minutes ago, Azul said:

Consistency is not possible when you don't have a run games. It's clear that Werner has been given a run of games, and he has not been good enough. The rest have not been good enough, but they've not been as bad with the limited amount of time they've had. 

It's very easy to understand, but you're being stubborn here. Werner has zero confidence right now, he should be benched and someone else like CHO should be given a run in the left forward position. If CHO is not up for it then Pulisic, and if both of them are shit after we've given them the same opportunities that Werner had then fair enough. 

Do you still believe Werner should start by the way? Even after you've seen him this month? Come on @Jason man, stop being stubborn for the sake of it. You know better.

You're casting a wide net there when you say "this month". lol

Do I think Werner should start every game? Definitely no and maybe benching him for 2-3 consecutive games or longer will do him some good.

What I'd say though - and I've said this before - is that Werner hasn't always occupied that left forward position considering he has played upfront a few times and even once on the right. So, nothing has really stopped Tuchel from playing Pulisic or CHO, especially with everyone available now. On top of that, I think we'll be playing a game every 3-4 days now until the end of the season. So, Tuchel will definitely rotate more and not even sure if anyone will get a consistent run. At most, I think one will play 3 consecutive games before being rested.

TBH, we have been doing this a lot and I can argue till the cows come home with you or anyone else but at the end of the day, Tuchel is the one picking the team. Have already argued to the point where I'm just tired and can't be bothered about anything anymore. 😖

[Azul 1,615]

34 minutes ago, Jason said:

You're casting a wide net there when you say "this month". lol

Do I think Werner should start every game? Definitely no and maybe benching him for 2-3 consecutive games or longer will do him some good.

What I'd say though - and I've said this before - is that Werner hasn't always occupied that left forward position considering he has played upfront a few times and even once on the right. So, nothing has really stopped Tuchel from playing Pulisic or CHO, especially with everyone available now. On top of that, I think we'll be playing a game every 3-4 days now until the end of the season. So, Tuchel will definitely rotate more and not even sure if anyone will get a consistent run. At most, I think one will play 3 consecutive games before being rested.

TBH, we have been doing this a lot and I can argue till the cows come home with you or anyone else but at the end of the day, Tuchel is the one picking the team. Have already argued to the point where I'm just tired and can't be bothered about anything anymore. 😖

He's become even worse in the last 4-5 weeks to be honest. His misses against Everton, and against Macedonia is just an example of that.

Don't hide behind what Tuchel does, he obviously has his reasons. What we can do is see the game by using our own eyes and making a judgement on whether Werner should start or not. If Tuchel starts him next game, then I think he's wrong to be honest. I'm really confused why he's dropped CHO all of a sudden, and not even brought him off the bench. It's a mystery, because I really do think the boy has potential and it'd be a shame if we don't give him a run of games in his preffered position where he usually does the job.

Let's just hope Werner get's a rest, because even I am starting to feel sorry for him. The guy needs a break and some time to himself.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Azul

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, Azul said:

He's become even worse in the last 4-5 weeks to be honest. His misses against Everton, and against Macedonia is just an example of that.

Don't hide behind what Tuchel does, he obviously has his reasons. What we can do is see the game by using our own eyes and making a judgement on whether Werner should start or not. If Tuchel starts him next game, then I think he's wrong to be honest. I'm really confused why he's dropped CHO all of a sudden, and not even brought him off the bench. It's a mystery, because I really do think the boy has potential and it'd be a shame if we don't give him a run of games in his preffered position where he usually does the job.

Let's just hope Werner get's a rest, because even I am starting to feel sorry for him. The guy needs a break and some time to himself.

Don't think any more needs to be said about his misses but he still had good games against Liverpool and Atletico otherwise. Had a good assist against the latter and would have had a goal against the former if it wasn't for a stupid offside call. 

Not hiding behind Tuchel's decision. Just saying. We can argue about this and that 24/7 but we don't know exactly why he picks who he picks every time.