closed Chelsea 0-3 Bayern Munich

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

21 minutes ago, Tomo said:

While we're in the spirit of honesty you remind me of the spoilt 12 year old United fans when I was at school who want it all and want it now and spit their dummy out when they don't get it

I've been going to Chelsea for 45 years when you were just a glint in the milkman's eye and have seen us nearly relegated to the third division so I hardly fit the category of spoiled. I've seen some dreadful teams and dreadful Chelsea players in some shithole grounds all over England and abroad the furthest you've been to watch Chelsea is carrying your laptop from your kitchen to your bedroom to do you're geeky musings about high press, pivots, double pivots etc.

[Tomo 21,751]

11 hours ago, Iggy Doonican said:

I've been going to Chelsea for 45 years when you were just a glint in the milkman's eye 

Then quite frankly that makes it even more embarrassing that you're offering no leeway to a team who lost their game changer and are trying to rebuild with academy players (most of whom playing their first season in a major league).

If Bayern narrowly beat us over two legs say 3-4 and we more than match them, will I be happy and walking round going "woo woo we lost 3-4"? Ofcourse not and I'll probably be even more gutted than usual given we ran them so close, but would I be proud of our young lads for going toe to toe against one of Europe's best sides at the first time (a big European knockout tie) of asking? Absolutely, and I can confidently predict more would be than won't, even on here.

[LAM09 7,054]

Let me guess, you have "but this isn't Jupp or Pep's Bayern" templated ready just incase we go through?

Nothing to do with that. If you read my post above, I believe we actually have a good chance if we take our chances. Atalanta would have personally been trickier opponents despite the consensus around here. 

 

 

The fact you believe we've been the better team in ALL of our big games (aside from those you mentioned) is what gets me. I really do love your enthusiasm for the team/club, but you need to be honest with yourself every so often.

 

 

 

[Chelsea_firstlove 178]

Reece James vs Davies Alphonso.

I'm very excited to watch this battle.

[Jase 43,479]

36 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

The fact you believe we've been the better team in ALL of our big games (aside from those you mentioned) is what gets me. I really do love your enthusiasm for the team/club, but you need to be honest with yourself every so often.

Tomo has a knack of overselling opposing big teams/underselling our capabilities, IMO. 

[Tomo 21,751]

43 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

Nothing to do with that. If you read my post above, I believe we actually have a good chance if we take our chances. Atalanta would have personally been trickier opponents despite the consensus around here. 

 

 

The fact you believe we've been the better team in ALL of our big games (aside from those you mentioned) is what gets me. I really do love your enthusiasm for the team/club, but you need to be honest with yourself every so often.

On reflection I'll probably give that I was a bit too hasty with City but if we look at the others.

Liverpool, the team that's likely to become the best team in PL history had to park a double decker to get the win, the crowd happily adknowleged how well they played at full time.

Ajax, outplayed last season's semi finalist (admittedly without the star man from that run) in their own stadium.

Better side on all four occasions against the North London clubs (bar the first 30 minutes at The Emirates).

Furthermore, my initial post was in response to someone fearing we will get spanked. Even if I was wrong about what i said I don't think there's any argument that we've shown enough in the big games to show we can make a tie of it against Bayern, at the very least.

[Jase 43,479]

Lampard's presser at 6:30pm UK time...

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Tomo said:

Ajax, outplayed last season's semi finalist (admittedly without the star man from that run) in their own stadium.

In their last 7 European home games, Ajax have won only once (vs Lille) and lost 4 of those games. While we did play well and were the better team that night in Amsterdam, I'm not sure why you keep on bigging up this Ajax side like they were the Ajax from 70s or 90s. This Ajax is good, but not that good as you keep making them out to be. 

[Jase 43,479]

Muller on Chelsea...

https://theathletic.com/1628348/

Let’s talk a little bit about Chelsea before I let you go. Does 2012, the defeat in the Champions League final in Munich, still play on your mind sometimes?

The fact that we won the trophy in 2013 has lessened the pain. In a sporting sense, it was a gigantic tragedy. But Bayern managed to overcome their two biggest traumas in modern times [2012 and 1999] by winning the Champions League soon after. Other clubs who might have suffered a similar fate would probably have disappeared for 10 or 20 years because you can’t get over such a thing. But for us, it’s not that bad anymore. On the contrary — 2012 was a big reason we won it in 2013.

You were the goalscorer in 2012. You thought you had won…

It was the most electrifying moment of my life. It was unbelievable. There’s a difference between scoring a goal and scoring a decisive goal. That goal was salvation, a huge release. The whole stadium exploded. Everyone had waited for us get the ball into the net for the entire game. It wasn’t the most beautiful of goals but the moment itself was unforgettable.

Does it matter that the goal proved ultimately futile?

It wasn’t futile — it took us to extra-time! [laughs].

Chelsea’s captain that night was Frank Lampard. Any special memories?

Not from that game but he was a super player. He played practical football. Technically very good, super shooting technique, super with long balls — a midfielder who could work and be dangerous in front of goal at the same time. He simply knew: these are the things you need to do to win football matches. He was a player I can really relate to.

What are your thoughts going into the first leg?

You’d think you would have seen all the great European stadiums after more than 100 Champions League games but I was never at Stamford Bridge and I’m really looking forward it. Chelsea have young, talented players and a quality team that can really hurt you. We need to be well-prepared for their particular strengths. But they’re not the best team in Europe right now and we don’t need to be afraid. I’m confident.
 

[Tomo 21,751]

59 minutes ago, Jason said:

In their last 7 European home games, Ajax have won only once (vs Lille) and lost 4 of those games. While we did play well and were the better team that night in Amsterdam, I'm not sure why you keep on bigging up this Ajax side like they were the Ajax from 70s or 90s. This Ajax is good, but not that good as you keep making them out to be. 

That would make a lot of sense if I actually was.

If we're going to down this route of basing the level of big game/achievement of result based on the teams record, then can I raise winning 5-2 at a Wolves side that scalp big teams as a hobby?

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

2 hours ago, Tomo said:

Then quite frankly that makes it even worse that you're offering no leeway to a team who lost their game changer and are trying to rebuild with academy players (most of whom playing their first season in a major league).

If Bayern narrowly beat us over two legs say 3-4 and we more than match them, will I be happy and walking round going "woo woo we lost 3-4"? Ofcourse not and I'll probably be even more gutted than usual given we ran them so close, but would I be proud of our young lads for going toe to toe against one of Europe's best sides at the first time (a big European knockout tie) of asking? Absolutely, and I can confidently predict more would be than won't, even on here.

We're Chelsea not fucking Bristol Rovers we should give a good account of ourselves that's a given. If Giroud plays tomorrow and Willian instead of Mount then apart from Reece James how is that a team full of youngsters ?.

[Tomo 21,751]

59 minutes ago, Iggy Doonican said:

We're Chelsea not fucking Bristol Rovers we should give a good account of ourselves that's a given. If Giroud plays tomorrow and Willian instead of Mount then apart from Reece James how is that a team full of youngsters ?.

It's not realistic to expect us to lose a game changer and rebuild with multiple young players and challenge the elite immediately. 

Rooney and Ronaldo are two of the best player's of the previous era. They had Scholes, Rio, Giggs, RVN, VDS (who were all better then than anything we currently have now bar Kante if he gets his level back) and were being trained by the best ever manager and even then they needed time to be ready to lead United to title challenges. Our boys have a manager in a similar boat to them and no serious top leaders to guide them, we could be Real Madrid and it would still be unrealistic (if not unreasonable) to ask that there's no growing pains.

[LAM09 7,054]

 

 

 

On reflection I'll probably give that I was a bit too hasty with City but if we look at the others.

Liverpool, the team that's likely to become the best team in PL history had to park a double decker to get the win, the crowd happily adknowleged how well they played at full time.

Ajax, outplayed last season's semi finalist (admittedly without the star man from that run) in their own stadium.

Better side on all four occasions against the North London clubs (bar the first 30 minutes at The Emirates).

Furthermore, my initial post was in response to someone fearing we will get spanked. Even if I was wrong about what i said I don't think there's any argument that we've shown enough in the big games to show we can make a tie of it against Bayern, at the very least.

 

If we classify big games on importance, we should have lost by 4+ in the Mestalla.

 

 

I completely agree with the latter; there is enough in this team to progress despite the odds being against us.

 

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Tomo said:

That would make a lot of sense if I actually was.

Considering the number of times you have talked up that Ajax win, you sure seem to be implying that. 

1 minute ago, Tomo said:

If we're going to down this route of basing the level of big game/achievement of result based on the teams record, then can I raise winning 5-2 at a Wolves side that scalp big teams as a hobby?

That might actually carry more merit but that being said, the constant overselling the good B-tier teams from you is maddening to say the least. I know we are not near being the best right now but we used to measure ourselves against the very best sides but now, performances/results against the good B-tier sides are being talked up like a 1000 times, like some sort of grand achievement.  

[Tomo 21,751]

14 minutes ago, Jason said:

Considering the number of times you have talked up that Ajax win, you sure seem to be implying that. 

That might actually carry more merit but that being said, the constant overselling the good B-tier teams from you is maddening to say the least. I know we are not near being the best right now but we used to measure ourselves against the very best sides but now, performances/results against the good B-tier sides are being talked up like a 1000 times, like some sort of grand achievement.  

I only "bring it up" because of the amount of times it's implied there's zero signs of something good from Lampard and that's one of the games that strongly support my side of the argument.

And if we had the old guard in their prime I would agree very few games should/would be looked at as "some grand achievement", but when you're trying to build a team to eventually challenge for the major trophies, for example Billy Gilmour was raved over after Grimsby but had that been Jorginho he obviously wouldn't have been.

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

14 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I only "bring it up" because of the amount of times it's implied there's zero signs of something good from Lampard and that's one of the games that strongly support my side of the argument.

And if we had the old guard in their prime I would agree very few games should/would be looked at as "some grand achievement", but when you're trying to build a team to eventually challenge for the major trophies, for example Billy Gilmour was raved over after Grimsby but had that been Jorginho he obviously wouldn't have been.

You cherry pick all the time and backtrack more than a Tory MP. You have recently said and it certainly sounded that you were contented with dominating possession against Arsenal and running Liverpool and City close. No mention of the wretched performances against West Ham, Newcastle, Southampton, Brighton, Everton a fucking injury ravaged  Bournemouth. If it wasn't for the sendings off against Ajax we wouldn't be playing tomorrow and we were lucky to draw against Valencia.

The negatives have far outweighed the positives recently  but at least we dominated against 10 men you're words verbatim. Everyone wants Lampard and the team to do well but they deserve criticism if things are going badly and I'm certainly not a fence sitter and will continue to post negative replies when they are warranted and not something as wishy washy as at least we gave Man City and Liverpool a good game

[Jase 43,479]

12 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I only "bring it up" because of the amount of times it's implied there's zero signs of something good from Lampard and that's one of the games that strongly support my side of the argument.

And if we had the old guard in their prime I would agree very few games should/would be looked at as "some grand achievement", but when you're trying to build a team to eventually challenge for the major trophies, for example Billy Gilmour was raved over after Grimsby but had that been Jorginho he obviously wouldn't have been.

The raving over Gilmour's performance against Grimsby didn't go on for months (or even days) though. Yes, we are building a team for the future (it's still a team with more experienced players than young players) but even then, we should still be measuring ourselves against the best, not against the likes of Wolves, Ajax etc even if victories over them are nice.

[Tomo 21,751]

19 hours ago, Iggy Doonican said:

You cherry pick all the time and backtrack more than a Tory MP. 

Since Sarri has come in (ie since we commited to changing our style so drastically) i have consistently said that it will take time to bare fruit properly, and it was going to be a few years until we were challenging for the league again, maybe you should have adapted your expectations to a more realistic level at that point aswell. It will be the beginning of next season minimum my expectations will be back at "title challenge" because we are trying to shift our style/personnel at the same time two of the best ever PL sides are at the absolute peak of their powers. To demand/expect any form of title challenge under these circumstances is moronic, didn't we use to laugh at Liverpool fans for unrealistic expectations?

I could just about get over your "win or we're shit, no grey areas" mindset if we had the old guard in their prime, but even the most demanding Real Madrid fans would probably have a little bit more understanding than you if they were rebuilding in play style while bringing through homegrown talent and alongside that Barca and Atleti were 100 point level teams. Your expectations given the squad we have are just simply far too high.

[Tomo 21,751]

37 minutes ago, Jason said:

The raving over Gilmour's performance against Grimsby didn't go on for months (or even days) though. 

Probably because he's not constantly called every name under the sun while people say there's no signs of a top player there. Had that happened I imagine that performance would be getting referred to quite regularly (like Mount's August-September performances are repeatedly brought up not just by me and I think even sometimes by you because of the moronic abuse he was getting in some quarters in winter time).

[Atomiswave 6,117]

2 hours ago, Tomo said:

Liverpool, the team that's likely to become the best team in PL history

Only pool loving media and their fans will claim such a thing ( not saying you are one ), the League is piss poor all over and var has given them 18pts plus so far. They would never do this in the 00's. Arsenal's best team, udt's and ours would have taken them to the cleaners.