🇮🇹 Jorginho

[Vesper 30,206]

[Vesper 30,206]

 

[Tomo 21,751]

Everyone says he improved so much but I don't see it, he was already very good. The only reason people (some fans and especially pundits) are starting to acknowledge his class is because Lampard done the very awkward thing of playing him and Kante in the exact same positions Sarri did, meaning it's easier to say he improved as opposed to admit Sarri was right all along.

[Jase 43,479]

34 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Everyone says he improved so much but I don't see it, he was already very good. The only reason people (some fans and especially pundits) are starting to acknowledge his class is because Lampard done the very awkward thing of playing him and Kante in the exact same positions Sarri did, meaning it's easier to say he improved as opposed to admit Sarri was right all along.

The debate about Kante's position is the most hilarious one. All that rage about Sarri playing Kante further forward and now Lampard is doing the same and not a word has been said.  

[Vesper 30,206]

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

Everyone says he improved so much but I don't see it, he was already very good. The only reason people (some fans and especially pundits) are starting to acknowledge his class is because Lampard done the very awkward thing of playing him and Kante in the exact same positions Sarri did, meaning it's easier to say he improved as opposed to admit Sarri was right all along.

Sarri greatly improved Kante's all-round game,and now Lamps is doing the same for Jorginho

it isn't rocket science

and Kante, even though he has never been truly healthy yet this year, has been allowed to go back and be a bit more of a disruptor

Rudiger and Emerson coming back fit  and Reece developing and playing more will help our defence loads, as will a fully fit Kante, and eventually Reece supplanting Azpi

next summer we need to grab a WC (top 7 to 10) CB and WC LB, bin Zouma, bin Alonso, bin Azpi (buy a decent backup RB or maybe just keep Azpi, I am not arsed so much as long as Reece blows up), grab a WC winger or two (depending on how Pulisic and CHO are doing, plus Willian and Pedro need to be (one for sure) shit canned), decide on Bats, and if thumbs down, grab Dembele from Lyon

and last but not least, bin Barkley and grab a great young DMF instead ...........Eduardo Camavinga would be an insanely good buy there (if he tracks out as it looks, he is an eventual first team or 2nd team all world XI someday, the lad is Mbappe level young freak  good almost, albeit at a different position and different skillset, or go for Florentino from Benfica (Shitty want him BAD) OR go the vet route and pull Thomas from Atleti (every time I see him he is close to the best player on the pitch, one of the most underrated superstars in global footie, streets beyond Casemiro IMHO, and I rate Casemiro a bit)

again, not rocket science, none of it is

and we will have at a bare minimum 400 to 450m fucking quid stacked up to do it, and potentially closer to or over £500m if we play the old cards right

 

[communicate 2,703]

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

Everyone says he improved so much but I don't see it, he was already very good. The only reason people (some fans and especially pundits) are starting to acknowledge his class is because Lampard done the very awkward thing of playing him and Kante in the exact same positions Sarri did, meaning it's easier to say he improved as opposed to admit Sarri was right all along.

This. Last year everyone complained that Jorginho cannot defend yet this season lamp played him in double pivot. I don't hear any criticism at all. It is just bizzare. 

[communicate 2,703]

47 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Sarri greatly improved Kante's all-round game,and now Lamps is doing the same for Jorginho

it isn't rocket science

and Kante, even though he has never been truly healthy yet this year, has been allowed to go back and be a bit more of a disruptor

Rudiger and Emerson coming back fit  and Reece developing and playing more will help our defence loads, as will a fully fit Kante, and eventually Reece supplanting Azpi

next summer we need to grab a WC (top 7 to 10) CB and WC LB, bin Zouma, bin Alonso, bin Azpi (buy a decent backup RB or maybe just keep Azpi, I am not arsed so much as long as Reece blows up), grab a WC winger or two (depending on how Pulisic and CHO are doing, plus Willian and Pedro need to be (one for sure) shit canned), decide on Bats, and if thumbs down, grab Dembele from Lyon

and last but not least, bin Barkley and grab a great young DMF instead ...........Eduardo Camavinga would be an insanely good buy there (if he tracks out as it looks, he is an eventual first team or 2nd team all world XI someday, the lad is Mbappe level young freak  good almost, albeit at a different position and different skillset, or go for Florentino from Benfica (Shitty want him BAD) OR go the vet route and pull Thomas from Atleti (every time I see him he is close to the best player on the pitch, one of the most underrated superstars in global footie, streets beyond Casemiro IMHO, and I rate Casemiro a bit)

again, not rocket science, none of it is

and we will have at a bare minimum 400 to 450m fucking quid stacked up to do it, and potentially closer to or over £500m if we play the old cards right

 

Common Vesper, Lampard is a coach not a magician, you can't improve player in 2 months. 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Just now, communicate said:

This. Last year everyone complained that Jorginho cannot defend yet this season lamp played him in double pivot. I don't hear any criticism at all. It is just bizzare. 

Also Sarri said Jorginho cant play in double pivot, yet Jorginho is even better in this formation.

[communicate 2,703]

Also Sarri said Jorginho cant play in double pivot, yet Jorginho is even better in this formation.

I don't think he is better in this formation. As double pivot he does not have the mobility to cover ground. So the moment he go forward he can't go back.

But honestly right now it doesn't matter. You can tell we are not a balance team but that is for next year.

[MoroccanBlue 5,383]

Remember the dick heads on ESPN claiming they didn't know what Jorginho was good at when things were going tits up last season?

They should be sacked. 

[the wes 7,212]

15 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Remember the dick heads on ESPN claiming they didn't know what Jorginho was good at when things were going tits up last season?

They should be sacked. 

Stewart Robson from ESPN was saying a lot of negative stuff about jorginho last season 

[nyikolajevics 2,700]

So happy for him. Must have had a tough time last season, everyone was throwing dirt at him, he was Sarri's little favourite.. In summer everyone was sure he will go back. But he stayed got his shit together which I respect.

[Vesper 30,206]

4 hours ago, communicate said:

Common Vesper, Lampard is a coach not a magician, you can't improve player in 2 months. 

its 3 months and yes, especially due to positional play due to formations and repetitive coaching

in cricket a good batting coach can sort out a long time pro player in a few weeks, same with bowlers

same for yank baseball for both batting and pitching

its a combo of things from Lamps, Jorginho had been stuck under the old smoker for ages

I absolutely believe Lamps has already helped him become more well rounded

 

 

[Johnnyeye 7,510]

54 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Remember the dick heads on ESPN claiming they didn't know what Jorginho was good at when things were going tits up last season?

They should be sacked. 

those idiots on ESPN think they are expert pundits, the ammount of bs they say is a joke, Steve Nicol is the worst of that lot.

[the wes 7,212]

38 minutes ago, Johnnyeye said:

those idiots on ESPN think they are expert pundits, the ammount of bs they say is a joke, Steve Nicol is the worst of that lot.

I can't stand Craig burley he's a clown 🤡 aswell

[communicate 2,703]

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

its 3 months and yes, especially due to positional play due to formations and repetitive coaching

in cricket a good batting coach can sort out a long time pro player in a few weeks, same with bowlers

same for yank baseball for both batting and pitching

its a combo of things from Lamps, Jorginho had been stuck under the old smoker for ages

I absolutely believe Lamps has already helped him become more well rounded

 

 

I don't know what you mean by rounded. Jorginho has always been a good passer, his interception is excellent and his positioning is good enough. 

But I honestly don't see any changes compare to last year other than the fact he sometimes play higher which you don't want. The only improvement is that fans and especially pundit like Frank better to Sarri 

[Vesper 30,206]

Just now, communicate said:

I don't know what you mean by rounded. Jorginho has always been a good passer, his interception is excellent and his positioning is good enough. 

But I honestly don't see any changes compare to last year other than the fact he sometimes play higher which you don't want. The only improvement is that fans and especially pundit like Frank better to Sarri 

I disagree but opinions will vary

my suggestion is to watch 2 games from midseason last year then two of the last 4 or 5 games

and just zoom in on Jorginho

I see a difference, he is more aggressive this year, and is not afraid to move into a more forward position, and also seems to me to be more consistent in his defence

I have grown to love him as a MF

shame he isnt 22 or 23, as that would mean 8 or 9 or so great years

 

 

 

[manpe 10,861]

28 minutes ago, Vesper said:

my suggestion is to watch 2 games from midseason last year then two of the last 4 or 5 games

and just zoom in on Jorginho

I see a difference, he is more aggressive this year, and is not afraid to move into a more forward position, and also seems to me to be more consistent in his defence

I agree. Last mid-season I thought defensively the game moved past him too much, there was too much reliance on Kante to bail him out. Starting from last season's end and improving upon that up to this point, he is definitely more involved in defensive phase and isn't seen as a liability anymore.

[Jase 43,479]

 

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

I dont think Lampard can take a great great deal of credit for Jorginho's so called improvement.

He was very good in the last 15 to 20 games of last season in the PL, cups and Europe as well with Maurizio and also for the Italian national team.

Hes simply just built on that since Lampard's came in which okay he can take some credit as the teams maybe not playing the same style but again, I think theres much more of a favourability towards Lampard in the media in comparison to what Sarri ever had, I mean just look at how Sarri got crucified regarding Kante's position for the first 3 or 4 months here although:

1) Lampard has also used Kante in the same position/role in big games this season and a word hasn't really been said about it.

2) Kante has never ever played as a fixed pivot infront of the defence in the PL other than the first 4 games under Antonio prior to changing the formation.

3) If you go back to Kantes time in France playing for Caen, he has played in that role.

I am sure in Frank's first presser as well that was one of the first questions he was asked as well although anybody who watched from however far in (after the original teething problems he had adjusting to the philosophy), will have seen Kante play consistenstly and also thrive in that role in some very key games. Particularly against Tottenham and Man City as well as other games against smaller teams.

Sarri wasnt perfect I know this, we all do but its fair to say the 10 months or so, if you watch the games back, particularly Jorginho he has been at a really high level but pundits and medua were digging in on him a lot based on a 2 month period where the whole team struggled. Ironic as it was almost exclusively British ones on both regards, who I think can be very limited and biast in their judgements. I dont think Jorginho would be as highly rated by the likes of Sarri, Mancini and Pep among others if he was just an average player, like the British media and pundits painted out at times. You can also see Lampard has a great deal of admiration and respect for what he can do in terms of on and off the pitch, hence why he has made him his vice captain and probably based on his experiences and attitude on the pitch regardless of his ability, rightfully so which is a brave call for Frank as well as Jorginho has still only been here since last summer.