Sarri But Not Sarri Thread

[Bovril 12]

Yeah, I thought a while ago we were not going to make top 4 with our erratic away form. The Europa League will be the priority, but it won't save Sarri. His inflexibility is infuriating. Many goals can come from Route 1, especially with a good header of the ball like Giroud. I wonder how many goals we have conceded with our fannying around at the back current style of play. Great to see our lads getting goals at the International level. That's telling!

[Superblue 6,372]

14 hours ago, Fernando said:

Give it some time, this is good. 

We needs this, continuity. 

I do expect next season to improve. 

I'm all for giving a manager time and I can appreciate that what Sarri is trying to do is a big culture shift area to the style and philosophy of Conte and Mourinho before him, but ultimately you need to be able to identify progress and positives still and I don't see this.

If we don't qualify for the Champions League again this season (through our league position) it will be 2 years with largely the same squad not making top 4. I do not see next season how we will magically improve.

Especially if you take into account the likelihood of this transfer ban standing, so no new players to come in and Hazard likely to leave. Whilst I've backed Sarri to a degree with how he's blooded Hudson-Odoi in, he needs to start playing him more now and we're talking about a real top drawer academy prospect. Will he be willing to give opportunities to other academy prospects over experienced players who he's worked with for a year already next season...I have huge doubts.

I don't even think the football we play is that great. At times it feels like possession for the sake of it, and most of the time there's no speed or urgency. It's predictable and to be honest boring to watch. Our team has become so reliant on Hazard producing something because there's so little penetration in our play it's embarrassing. 

I still stand by my hope that they would give Lampard the job next season. He may be inexperienced, but he'll be all the better prepared from this season at Derby. He's already said previously in interviews that he wants his team to get on the ball and play and be aggressive both attacking and pressing when they don't have the ball, but he also expects his team to be adaptable too. He knows the club, would bring back to the dressing room some of that experience and belief we had when he was here, and I do believe his standing at Chelsea is so high that his reputation amongst supporters wouldn't be ruined which is why I believe somebody like him would be more willing than any to risk blooding through younger players. If supporters can see this club is trying to rebuild and is willing to give some younger players opportunities then there will be patience.

If the club is going to give a manager sufficient time now it has to be with someone who is able to start the rebuild of this club with the resources at their disposal and I just don't see that in Sarri.

[Jase 43,479]

 

[MoroccanBlue 5,378]

2 hours ago, Superblue_1986 said:

If we don't qualify for the Champions League again this season (through our league position) it will be 2 years with largely the same squad not making top 4. I do not see next season how we will magically improve.

If we improve on those players with players that best fit the system. 

[Superblue 6,372]

35 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

If we improve on those players with players that best fit the system. 

At current we have a transfer ban and until otherwise we have to assume this will remain the case.

Therefore the only way we can change things is through integrating loan or youth players and I don't have faith that Sarri will do this willingly and successfully.

[MoroccanBlue 5,378]

1 hour ago, Superblue_1986 said:

At current we have a transfer ban and until otherwise we have to assume this will remain the case.

Therefore the only way we can change things is through integrating loan or youth players and I don't have faith that Sarri will do this willingly and successfully.

James and Pasalic are only two players that imo can make it in this team. 

Replaces Zappacosta and Kovacic

[Superblue 6,372]

25 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

James and Pasalic are only two players that imo can make it in this team. 

Replaces Zappacosta and Kovacic

I'm not disputing we haven't got players from the academy or out on loan to come in and refresh the squad. A part of me would actually prefer this ban to stick and force us to do this rather than start rebuilding immediately through the transfer market.

But my point is will Sarri trust these young players to come in and play regularly?

He has already admitted this season that under Pep's advice, he has pretty much focused on about 15/16 players to teach his philosophy to. Is he likely to be prepared to change much from that core group of players who he's been training for a season? His stubborn nature and his track record (previously at Napoli also) of unwilling to rotate much would suggest not.

[Tomo 21,751]

3 hours ago, Jason said:

 

There seems to be a constant change in the goalposts with Odoi.

When he was not getting minutes it was "look at Foden at City", now he's getting more minutes than him it's "but it's not in the league", no doubt if he was getting the league minutes instead of Europa the narrative would be "we give him the league minutes but in the competitions we have a chance of winning Sarri doesn't trust him". Even getting an England call up on the back of his appearances here is being spun into a negative.

Now don't get me wrong i question Sarri's squad management with a few players (Christensen, Ampadu, Cesc and to an extent Emerson and Giroud) however Odoi is likely to end up with around 25-30 appearances at sixth form age, all said had that been any other club the manager in question would be getting wanked off into a coma.

[MoroccanBlue 5,378]

34 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I'm not disputing we haven't got players from the academy or out on loan to come in and refresh the squad. A part of me would actually prefer this ban to stick and force us to do this rather than start rebuilding immediately through the transfer market.

But my point is will Sarri trust these young players to come in and play regularly?

He has already admitted this season that under Pep's advice, he has pretty much focused on about 15/16 players to teach his philosophy to. Is he likely to be prepared to change much from that core group of players who he's been training for a season? His stubborn nature and his track record (previously at Napoli also) of unwilling to rotate much would suggest not.

You'd honestly rather bleed in our youth and loan players vs buying players tailor made for Sarri's style?

And I disagree. I think Sarri has rotated his teams just fine. 

[Superblue 6,372]

8 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

You'd honestly rather bleed in our youth and loan players vs buying players tailor made for Sarri's style?

And I disagree. I think Sarri has rotated his teams just fine. 

Yes. This isn't like Pep or Mourinho who can point to an extensive track record of success if you buy into their philosophy and requirements. His style has yet to win anything, so do we want to be investing heavily in something largely unproven?

Also the players Sarri has brought in for his 'style' (Jorginho, Kovacic and Higuain) have hardly set the club alight. Can we trust him to get things right or will we see more signings that struggle to adapt or succeed.

This isn't just Sarri though, it's a root problem at the club of not having a long term plan. That plan doesn't have to be holding on to the same manager, but there needs to be continuity in managers so that players under a previous regime are still well suited to a new manager. We spent a fortune in the 2017 summer window and just over 18 months later, only Rudiger seems to be wanted by Sarri.

The way the club operated 5 - 10 years ago is no longer working and papering over the cracks no longer will suffice. We need a full rebuild of the club with a much clearer picture moving forward, and for me that starts with a director of football with a vision the board are prepared to commit and work towards and bring in the right youth and loan players to start this. Then once these are in place, key areas of the first team that need improving can be identified and good money spent to do so.

Until we make proper changes the wheels in my opinion will keep spinning at the club.

[MoroccanBlue 5,378]

10 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Yes. This isn't like Pep or Mourinho who can point to an extensive track record of success if you buy into their philosophy and requirements. His style has yet to win anything, so do we want to be investing heavily in something largely unproven?

Also the players Sarri has brought in for his 'style' (Jorginho, Kovacic and Higuain) have hardly set the club alight. Can we trust him to get things right or will we see more signings that struggle to adapt or succeed.

This isn't just Sarri though, it's a root problem at the club of not having a long term plan. That plan doesn't have to be holding on to the same manager, but there needs to be continuity in managers so that players under a previous regime are still well suited to a new manager. We spent a fortune in the 2017 summer window and just over 18 months later, only Rudiger seems to be wanted by Sarri.

The way the club operated 5 - 10 years ago is no longer working and papering over the cracks no longer will suffice. We need a full rebuild of the club with a much clearer picture moving forward, and for me that starts with a director of football with a vision the board are prepared to commit and work towards and bring in the right youth and loan players to start this. Then once these are in place, key areas of the first team that need improving can be identified and good money spent to do so.

Until we make proper changes the wheels in my opinion will keep spinning at the club.

Again with this 'his style hasn't won anything' argument. His style took a 5th place team in Italy with no budget, toe to toe with the monopoly that is Juventus. Breaking records at the same time. Did you forget we were one penalty away from winning the league cup? Did you forget we are also on course to make the Europa league final? 

Sorry, I just think it's very naive to suggest bleeding in our youth and loan players will deliver success. None of which, you can say with a straight face, improves us. We would soon fall to obscurity the way Arsenal had if we go that route. The club bent over backwards to appoint Sarri, and so far everything points to them backing him over the players. And rightly so. 

 

[Vesper 30,119]

1 hour ago, MoroccanBlue said:

And I disagree. I think Sarri has rotated his teams just fine. 

not buying it at ALL

and bullshit with him trotting out that fraud Alonso most all games until recently, and running Azpi into the ground, and his play Kovacic out of position 95% of the time, etc etc

Quote

You'd honestly rather bleed in our youth and loan players vs buying players tailor made for Sarri's style?

we cant buy shit now, and are going to lose more than £300m in hard offer valuations (offers from both last summer and this January) when/if Hazard, CHO, Willian, Luiz walk on frees

btw, Sarriball is shit for the EPL unless we had liquidated ALL the deadwood and shit players and dropped that £620m on a mostly brand new team

it will never work with who we have now, and that INCLUDES Jorginho, who simply isnt up to the EPL speed and physicality

[Laylabelle 9,534]

52 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Again with this 'his style hasn't won anything' argument. His style took a 5th place team in Italy with no budget, toe to toe with the monopoly that is Juventus. Breaking records at the same time. Did you forget we were one penalty away from winning the league cup? Did you forget we are also on course to make the Europa league final? 

Sorry, I just think it's very naive to suggest bleeding in our youth and loan players will deliver success. None of which, you can say with a straight face, improves us. We would soon fall to obscurity the way Arsenal had if we go that route. The club bent over backwards to appoint Sarri, and so far everything points to them backing him over the players. And rightly so. 

 

We were also comfy in 4th. Now we're 6th and chasing it.  We've won one league away game this year. Be surprised how long they back him for longer if it carries on.  Especially if we end the season with nothing and back to Europa next year

Nothing to show from this season as it stands. Hopefully come end something will have changed. We're still in Europa at least. 

[Superblue 6,372]

33 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Again with this 'his style hasn't won anything' argument. His style took a 5th place team in Italy with no budget, toe to toe with the monopoly that is Juventus. Breaking records at the same time. Did you forget we were one penalty away from winning the league cup? Did you forget we are also on course to make the Europa league final? 

Sorry, I just think it's very naive to suggest bleeding in our youth and loan players will deliver success. None of which, you can say with a straight face, improves us. We would soon fall to obscurity the way Arsenal had if we go that route. The club bent over backwards to appoint Sarri, and so far everything points to them backing him over the players. And rightly so. 

His record at Napoli was good, but besides Juventus who are head and shoulders above everything in Italy, the rest of the sides are simply not that great at present. We may well be on course for making the Europa League final but the quarter finals in two leg competition is still a good distance away and the way we have been playing so far this calendar year do you really fancy our chances currently of going and winning it? The league cup final ironically showed us playing less 'Sarriball' and more 'Chelseaball' and was far more effective than the 6-0 we got handed a week or so before that.

Sometimes managers just 'fit' a job and never have the same success with different players, requirements, pressures, etc. Moyes at Everton, Curbishley at Charlton and I do think Sarri may be in that category whilst at Napoli. His style of football perfectly suits Italian football where the game is slower and there is less pressing through the league giving players more time and space. Jorginho looked like an absolute world beater over there, but with no time here he struggles. Bakayoko is the same, he's being praised to the hills when last season under intense pressure he couldn't even get the ball under control.

If we don't make top 4 this season which is looking likely we are already at a level similar to Arsenal now. This season has been poor overall, and the football hasn't been great. So with a transfer ban, how are we going to get any better under Sarri with the same players? 

I'm not suggesting blooding some youth players in will make us immediately successful, but with the transfer ban in place next season could be afforded a proper transitional year where we did bring 3 or 4 into the squad, as well as giving the likes of Christensen, RLC and CHO more of a first choice role at the club. Some of these players may never be good enough to be first choice at the club, but I'm confident there are some that can make it. And at the very least there are some that can come into the squad and replace the likes of Zappacosta and Drinkwater, rather than squandering more money on such signings.

The following season after our ban we can review the situation and if some of these players have shown the progress hoped then it means less players we need to buy which in turn means more money to spend per player improving the quality. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,378]

44 minutes ago, Vesper said:

not buying it at ALL

and bullshit with him trotting out that fraud Alonso most all games until recently, and running Azpi into the ground, and his play Kovacic out of position 95% of the time, etc etc

we cant buy shit now, and are going to lose more than £300m in hard offer valuations (offers from both last summer and this January) when/if Hazard, CHO, Willian, Luiz walk on frees

btw, Sarriball is shit for the EPL unless we had liquidated ALL the deadwood and shit players and dropped that £620m on a mostly brand new team

it will never work with who we have now, and that INCLUDES Jorginho, who simply isnt up to the EPL speed and physicality

CHO is a separate argument. One that I am firmly with the majority on but I still see the media are making it worse that what it is. In terms of rotation however, he's rotated much better than at Napoli. Instead of running his starting XI to the ground, only Kante and Azpilicueta have been over played. RLC being injured all the time isn't helping that either. 

I'm speaking only on the hypothetical that our transfer ban is lifted. His football is proven to work. We don't even have to spend ridiculous amounts to get Sarri's players. You yourself should know that.