Mason Mount

[King Kante 1,643]

On 02/12/2021 at 15:04, Magic Lamps said:

First player to reach double digits in goals under TT... in almost a year. Tied to top scorer for us in the league with RJ now at 4. That really speaks volumes.

It does and it doesn't. It does speak volumes that we don't have a go to man to score for us, but it equally shows TT's system allows the goals to be shared around. 

Either way, I was happy with Mount again against West Ham. He was probably our MotM which followed his MotM performance against Watford. 

Hopefully that will stop the haters/unconvinced thinking a rest is him being dropped. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,377]

Ziyech, Werner, Havertz, & Lukaku were purchased on their output alone. Those upstairs never considered if they would fit the system, hence why they are all doing poorly. 

I still believe we will be better off building the attack around Havertz and Mount. Chiesa at LW would be ideal. 

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

53 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Ziyech, Werner, Havertz, & Lukaku were purchased on their output alone. Those upstairs never considered if they would fit the system, hence why they are all doing poorly. 

I still believe we will be better off building the attack around Havertz and Mount. Chiesa at LW would be ideal. 

Chiesa would be a dream signing.

I watched that Amazon thing for Juventus of the season under Pirlo and I didn’t actually realise how many important goals he scored for them that season. Everyone just talked about Ronaldo bailing Pirlo out but Chiesa got a lot of key goals. Obviously his talent is huge and his ability already is huge.

I think he’s likely to remain in Italy with Juventus though unfortunately, even if they are struggling financially and under investigation, I would imagine he would remain if all was okay. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,377]

hace 1 hora, OneMoSalah dijo:

Chiesa would be a dream signing.

I watched that Amazon thing for Juventus of the season under Pirlo and I didn’t actually realise how many important goals he scored for them that season. Everyone just talked about Ronaldo bailing Pirlo out but Chiesa got a lot of key goals. Obviously his talent is huge and his ability already is huge.

I think he’s likely to remain in Italy with Juventus though unfortunately, even if they are struggling financially and under investigation, I would imagine he would remain if all was okay. 

Still think we can tempt him. He didn't rule out England completely, just that it wasn't the right time. 

Chiesa, Havertz and Mount front three would set us up for years. 

[King Kante 1,643]

2 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Chiesa would be a dream signing.

I watched that Amazon thing for Juventus of the season under Pirlo and I didn’t actually realise how many important goals he scored for them that season. Everyone just talked about Ronaldo bailing Pirlo out but Chiesa got a lot of key goals. Obviously his talent is huge and his ability already is huge.

I think he’s likely to remain in Italy with Juventus though unfortunately, even if they are struggling financially and under investigation, I would imagine he would remain if all was okay. 

Depends. Juve are potentially in a lot of shite. If they get found guilty of providing fraudulent financial documents to the financial markets we could be talking about relegation and a eye watering financial penalty. If that happens they'll have to do a true fire sale or go under, especially as their owners are caught up in this and won't be able to be directors of a PLC anymore (a charge of fraud automatically prevents someone from becoming a director of a public company.) 

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

59 minutes ago, King Kante said:

Depends. Juve are potentially in a lot of shite. If they get found guilty of providing fraudulent financial documents to the financial markets we could be talking about relegation and a eye watering financial penalty. If that happens they'll have to do a true fire sale or go under, especially as their owners are caught up in this and won't be able to be directors of a PLC anymore (a charge of fraud automatically prevents someone from becoming a director of a public company.) 

Again a lot of ifs and buts.

For me, he is like Barella, someone who will not move from a big Italian club to another league anytime soon. Well maybe 4,5, 6 years down the line if they go on and achieve a lot or fancy a change but I can’t see it.

The top Italian players don’t necessarily leave Serie A historically. Verratti, Jorginho, Donnarumma have more recently in last 10 years or so. And Emerson isnt a top player but hes another as is Gollini who went to Spurs this summer. They don’t really leave Serie A.

[King Kante 1,643]

10 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Again a lot of ifs and buts.

For me, he is like Barella, someone who will not move from a big Italian club to another league anytime soon. Well maybe 4,5, 6 years down the line if they go on and achieve a lot or fancy a change but I can’t see it.

The top Italian players don’t necessarily leave Serie A historically. Verratti, Jorginho, Donnarumma have more recently in last 10 years or so. And Emerson isnt a top player but hes another as is Gollini who went to Spurs this summer. They don’t really leave Serie A.

For sure. If Juve don't get sanctioned hard, then he is highly unlikely to leave. If they do however, I am not sure what options he'll have. The Milan clubs don't have £50m+ to spend and I cannot see Napoli, Roma or Atalanta doing that either. 

Whether we would get him is another matter, but if Juve do get relegated, he'll probably have to leave Italy with the offers Juve/Florence would get for him/the wages he could get outside of Italy. 

[King Kante 1,643]

Funny how this thread has gone quite again now he is back in the team from a lay off, playing well and also adding goals. 

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

18 minutes ago, King Kante said:

Funny how this thread has gone quite again now he is back in the team from a lay off, playing well and also adding goals. 

I am surprised with the mixed results there wasn’t more from the usual suspects.

[NikkiCFC 8,287]

I am curious how does he feel about a fact that he has been playing out of  position for almost a year now?

I remember last season early on after Frank played him a couple of games as a winger and after putting him back as number 8 and he had a good game, post match interview he said 'I'm number 8'. CHO for example expressed publicly his frustration about playing WB. 

This would be big deal for some players. I know Mount is hard working dude, loves the club and stuff but if lets say TT is here for 2 more years that would basically mean that Mount from 22nd to 25th birthday will most likely play out of his preferable position. That's prime years lost of developing his abilities in primary position and where many see him to be a big star. 

[Tomo 21,751]

He's not really "playing out of position" though. On paper maybe but in reality he's patrolling the pockets between the midfield and the forwards, a role which suits him down to the ground.

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

24 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

I am curious how does he feel about a fact that he has been playing out of  position for almost a year now?

I remember last season early on after Frank played him a couple of games as a winger and after putting him back as number 8 and he had a good game, post match interview he said 'I'm number 8'. CHO for example expressed publicly his frustration about playing WB. 

This would be big deal for some players. I know Mount is hard working dude, loves the club and stuff but if lets say TT is here for 2 more years that would basically mean that Mount from 22nd to 25th birthday will most likely play out of his preferable position. That's prime years lost of developing his abilities in primary position and where many see him to be a big star. 

The guys got 10 PL goal involvements in 797 minutes playing as a number 10 this season (6 goals 4 assists). Him playing higher up in that positions, its working, and as mentioned above, is he really out of position? 

I’d say his role is sort of comparable to that of KdB and Silva under Pep. They weren’t really 8’s for say but they weren’t purely number 10’s, they were sort of asked to be a hybrid of both positions but they tended to drift into half spaces/between the lines.

Obviously the formations different, the coaches are different and the players are different but I don’t think Mount’s role is too dissimilar. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[NikkiCFC 8,287]

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

He's not really "playing out of position" though. On paper maybe but in reality he's patrolling the pockets between the midfield and the forwards, a role which suits him down to the ground.

 

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

playing as a number 10 this season

It is a bit confusing how to define it. Lampard played 433 with two number 8s and he also said that he sees them more as number 10. Same with Pep. Both had/have 3 more attacking players upfront. 

This is what MM said after Burnley last season:

“I am a No.8 and a midfielder," the England international explained to Chelsea's official website after the final whistle at Turf Moor.

"I have always been in my whole career, so it is natural for me to play in there and I know I have started a bit wider this season, but I love playing in midfield.

"It is my position and the fluidity we had in the game with the wingers [was good today].”

I would not call any of our front 3 AM. If you call Mount AM you also call Havertz, Pulisic, CHO, Ziyech number 10. Which means we play without strikers unless Lukaku is on the pitch?

Look at heatmaps for recent games. There are games where he was actually most attacking player. I would say his position under TT is more similar to Willian RW position than to number 10.

Assist against Watford, goal against WH typical winger. There is that map of our players I posted after some of the games and Kai who that game on paper played as false 9 was actually our 5th most attacking player. In line with Kante.

After all, this discussion is not that important, just come to my mind that maybe Mount would in long run prefer to play as number 8 and I just think under TT he is more striker/winger than MF.

TT said this after Norwich: 

As you know we play most games with three strikers and Mason is one of the strikers and you can say in our world that Mason is maybe between an eight and a 10, so not a real striker.

[King Kante 1,643]

12 hours ago, Tomo said:

He's not really "playing out of position" though. On paper maybe but in reality he's patrolling the pockets between the midfield and the forwards, a role which suits him down to the ground.

This is something he is actually great at and it is vitally important in modern football. Problem is, it is a quality that isn't really apparent unless you look for it; especially if you don't go to games. I feel this is why he gets so much grief from some quarters. 

Another problem I have with people who complain about Mount is that they expect SFL goal and assits output, but compare him to peak SFL. I mean, look at his goal/assist rate compared to SFL in his first three seasons at Chelsea (he came at 23 v 20.5): 

Mount 

Age 20/21 - Games 53, Mins 3741 - Goals 7 / Assists 6 - goal and assist every 288 mins 

Age 21/22 - Games 54, Mins 4242 - Goals 9 / Assists 9 - goal and assist every 236 mins

Age 22/23 (this season, turns 23 in Jan) - Games 20, Mins 1202 - Goals 6 / Assists 4 - goal and assist every 120 mins

SFL

Age 23 - Games 53, Mins 4483 - Goals 7 / Assists 2 - goal and assist every 498 mins

Age 24 - Games 48, Mins 4127 - Goals 8 / Assists 5 - goal and assist every 317 mins

Age 25 - Games 58, Mins 5041 - Goals 15 / Assists 9 - goal and assist every 210 mins

So, in all Mount is playing for us at 2.5 years younger (a significant difference at these ages) and is outperforming SFL on Goals and Assists every year for us. Furthermore, like Lampard he is improving year on year at a good rate, which also bodes well moving forward. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by King Kante

[gdlk 286]

Hes turning into Jack Wilshere V2.0