🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Mason Mount

[MoroccanBlue 5,382]

Unless he develops his game he shouldn't be the #10. 

Even under Lampard, I always stated Mount was a CM as his best attributes are his transitioning of the ball and pressing. He'd be great under Klopp. 😄

[Stats 7,142]

3 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Comparing him to Grealish is different. Grealish is a wide player. His games in a central role this season he has 0 goals and 0 assists. Not his position again but gets frustrating how when everyone mentions Mason Mount, Grealish is one of the the first names used to compare him. Or Foden. These guys are used as wingers.

Also as you said, they are more flair players (although would say Maddison and Grealish have both worked on their end product and being more reliable) but lets also not forget Maddison took a bit of time to look at home in the PL and is 24 now. I seen him play up at Aberdeen and could tell he would always go and play at a very high level but it took time for him to establish himself as a top player consistently in that position he plays and also Brendan Rodgers deserves huge credit in helping him develop as he has. Also was Jack Grealish a better player than Mount aged 22? 

Still don’t see how some people cant see Mason’s value to this team though. 

I totally agree. Yes I guess Grealish is used out wide but it is just a measure to show that when Mount gets to their age he will be a lot better than he is now and I just don’t get the harsh criticism he gets at times. He is the second youngest player after Robben to get into double figures in the league for us and is also a regular for club and country. I genuinely think he has the ability to easily get into double figures a season.

[NikkiCFC 8,319]

7 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Grealish is a wide player. His games in a central role this season he has 0 goals and 0 assists. 

This is not true. He has just 5 games as AM and 2 assists and 1 penalty won. But look at this game for example he played AM and ended up with 1 assist ad 1 pen won. But could easily had 4 assists.

You can see all this in 2 mins video.

Also about Mount, you realize he is not number 8 anymore? Under Tuchel he is one of the 3 most offensive players and even under Frank he played winger many times.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

33 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

This is not true. He has just 5 games as AM and 2 assists and 1 penalty won. But look at this game for example he played AM and ended up with 1 assist ad 1 pen won. But could easily had 4 assists.

You can see all this in 2 mins video.

Also about Mount, you realize he is not number 8 anymore? Under Tuchel he is one of the 3 most offensive players and even under Frank he played winger many times.

Okay 2 assists in 7 games. And a video from against WBA? Cmon, they were probably the worst team in the league at the time considering it was over 2 months ago. But still, Grealish’s best and most common positions on the left side and thats why the comparison with Mount is annoying and stupid if you ask me. But people will still make it. 

Also yes I realise that he is playing as a more offensive player but his role is still not exactly as that of a winger or a striker either, hes played more like a number 10 with Tammy and Werner playing as split strikers. If anyone who has watched the games under TT so far hasn't noticed Mason has been one of the better players despite a lack of goals and assists, then they are deluding themselves, he was dropped and within the cameo he made it was inevitable he would he reinstated to the team. Its no surprise Mason playing well has all of a sudden corresponded with other attacking players starting to improve also (CHO and Werner especially), he knits things together, bringing others into the game in the final third. Not necessarily with assists but watch him tonight, he drifts to the left and the right to play with the wingbacks and other attacking players a lot. I get it, he doesnt have great stats but which young English player had over 10 goals and assists who played this position aged 22? (Picked these values as this seems to be minimum requirement as it was for Oscar when he was here who played same position). I get people will irrelevantly compare him against someone who predominantly plays as a winger because other than Maddison there aren’t any other young English player in that position whos even close to Mason and Maddison (who is superior to Mason ATM but it took him time to iron out consistency issues that he had at Aberdeen and Norwich and arguably you could say Rodgers appointment has elevated him to another level) but if we are going to compare him to Grealish we may as well compare him to Sancho, to Rashford etc as well - which would be even more stupider than comparing him to Grealish already is.

For all the talk of Grealish also, he has got 6 goals and 10 assists in the PL (which is better than his previous returns) but considering 11 of those were in 2020, his output has significantly dropped off also (understandable when you get 5 goal involvements in 1 game that its always going to drop off). He’s contributed to 5 league goals this year but Mount has contributed to 3 which considered the change in management after Luton, hopefully he can produce more because thats the only thing that is frustrating about his game but at age 22, its to be expecred that he isnt the final product. I mean Grealish didn’t get double figures in the league in goals and assists in his career until the 2018/19 season (which was in the championship, playing for the best team in the division at the time). Also overall in their careers Mount has more goals than Grealish.. in 50 or 60 odd less appearances if it means anything. Although as I said the comparison is stupid to begin with.

I can see why people would compare Maddison as him and Mount will undoubtedly be going for the same/a similar position, but Grealish will be competing with Rashford, Sterling, Sancho, Foden etc so he should be compared with them. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,382]

Mount is a player that should play beneath Maddison, Grealish, and Foden. 

Again, if there is any player you can compare Mount to, its Gini Wijnaldum. You don't compare Wijnaldum to Bruno Fernandes. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

While we all love to talk about individuals, football is a team sport and you can imagine that whoever may be the manager, Mount will play.

He makes the team better, and being a team sport, that's no small feat.

We can certainly go into what we'd like him to do better, esp when comparing him to other players, but in fairness, we'd also need to say that that other player may not do certain things that mount does on the pitch.

You always need a player like that and It does not really matter which position he starts from "on paper" his role is being that guy who makes things click. The fact we have more creative options in the squad can only be a good thing for any manager.

Edited February 23, 2021 by robsblubot

[Tomo 21,751]

How many manager's is that now he's blackmailed?

[King Kante 1,643]

20 minutes ago, Tomo said:

How many manager's is that now he's blackmailed?

I dunno, but it is getting to the stage were he must have some Mr. Robot level hacking skills to get the dirt he does. 

[Tomo 21,751]

Just now, King Kante said:

I dunno, but it is getting to the stage were he must have some Mr. Robot level hacking skills to get the dirt he does. 

He's like those scientists trying to stay one step ahead of virus mutation's but in his case working out our next manager change in advance and getting to work.

Word is he's got a plane ticket to Leipzig ready for when lockdown ends.

[King Kante 1,643]

5 minutes ago, Tomo said:

He's like those scientists trying to stay one step ahead of virus mutation's but in his case working out our next manager change in advance and getting to work.

Word is he's got a plane ticket to Leipzig ready for when lockdown ends.

Or he Marina's son. Did think of that, did you? 

[kellzfresh 7,229]

His passion for the club is needed on the pitch. Sometimes you have that one average player that bleeds blue and inspires the rest of the team with his sheer effort and desire. Liverpool has Henderson for this, Manutd had Anderson, they always play even though they are average. We just have to improve other areas of the pitch technically.

[Blue Armour 4,439]

17 hours ago, Jason said:

Seriously? Now Mount gets praised for basically being non-injury prone player? You said it as if Pulisic wanted to be an injury prone player or that he intentionally gets injured all the time. 

Its not Pulisic's fault obviously, nor was it the fault of quality players like Ledley King or Jack Wilshere.

I am saying that Chelsea can thank their stars that Mount has remarkable endurance. He can play full matches back to back and not show much strain.

[Jase 43,479]

4 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Its not Pulisic's fault obviously, nor was it the fault of quality players like Ledley King or Jack Wilshere.

I am saying that Chelsea can thank their stars that Mount has remarkable endurance. He can play full matches back to back and not show much strain.

Even then, is Mount the only one at the club who has endurance, who can play back to back matches? Let's not also forget that Mount was overplayed last season and he ran out of steam in the end. Everyone has their limit.

[robsblubot 3,595]

6 hours ago, kellzfresh said:

His passion for the club is needed on the pitch. Sometimes you have that one average player that bleeds blue and inspires the rest of the team with his sheer effort and desire. Liverpool has Henderson for this, Manutd had Anderson, they always play even though they are average. We just have to improve other areas of the pitch technically.

It seems to me that by pinpointing very specific players from top clubs at that (except that lazy fuck Anderson  ), and very unique in their leadership role, they'd be by definition not average? It's like saying Kante was "just" a workhorse at Leicester.

And honestly, think he's pretty good skill wise: he's got quick feet, can work in tight spaces, and scores regularly. underrated.

[Jase 43,479]

9 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

And honestly, think he's pretty good skill wise: he's got quick feet, can work in tight spaces, and scores regularly. underrated.

Did you say Mount scores regularly? 🤨

[Jase 43,479]

Since Mount will miss the 2nd leg against Atletico, did a little digging into the numbers...

When Mount STARTS:
P 74
W 42
D 12
L 20
56% win rate

When Mount DOESN'T START (including sub appearances, no sub appearances):
P 18
W 9
D 5
L 4
50% win rate

[King Kante 1,643]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

Since Mount will miss the 2nd leg against Atletico, did a little digging into the numbers...

When Mount STARTS:
P 74
W 42
D 12
L 20
56% win rate

When Mount DOESN'T START (including sub appearances, no sub appearances):
P 18
W 9
D 5
L 4
50% win rate

Thing is we can all pick statistics to use as we wish. First, your one that you have lifted is slightly disproportionate as you've 74 games v 18 games which is over a 4x difference. Second, it can be questioned if the quality of the opposition comparable? I ask as if his games missing are primarily against bottom half PL clubs, League Cup games and 3rd/4th seed European teams in the group stage, then that 50% win rate quickly looks horrific. 

Another thing to consider is what players where doing at a comparable siutations/age to Mount. Here is a couple: 

SFL 

01/02 (First season at Chelsea - age 23) - Games 53 - Goals 7 - Assists 2

02/03 - Age 24 - Games 48 - Goals 8 - Assists 5 

Mount 

19/20 (age 20/21 - First season at Chelsea) - Games 53 - Goals 8 - Assists 6

20/21 (age 21/22) - Games 38 (season on going) - Goals 5 - Assists 6

Grealish (as he seems to be a player everyone wants to compare Mount too) 

17/18 (Age 20/21 - Championship) - Games 34 - Goals 3 - Assists 8

18/19 (Age 21/22 - Championship) - Games 35 - Goals 6 - Assists 8

If you look at those stats: 

1) Mount outperformed SFL in his first season by 1 goal and 4 assits even though he is two years younger. 

2) Mount is on course to again statistically beat SFL in goals and assists in his second year, dispite being 2 years younger. 

3) Grealish was still playing Champo football at the age Mount is now. Thus, Mount is having to operate in more difficult circumstances. That said, he has a +3 goal/assist record over Grealish for their age 20/21 season, albeit in more games. 

4) Mount is -3 goals/assists on Grealish on his age 21/22 season having played more games. However, again it needs to be remembered the level isn't comparable.

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by King Kante

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, King Kante said:

Thing is we can all pick statistics to use as we wish. First, your one that you have lifted is slightly disproportionate as you've 74 games v 18 games which is over a 4x difference. Second, it can be questioned if the quality of the opposition comparable? I ask as if his games missing are primarily against bottom half PL clubs, League Cup games and 3rd/4th seed European teams in the group stage, then that 50% win rate quickly looks horrific. 

🤣 Don't you think I'm not aware of all that? I was just curious about the numbers and hence why I went to just dig up. The numbers are never going to be comparable given Mount has been used a lot ever since breaking through the first team and since there's all the notion about he is our best player etc, that stat just sort of reinforces that notion! 

1 hour ago, King Kante said:

Another thing to consider is what players where doing at a comparable siutations/age to Mount. Here is a couple: 

SFL 

01/02 (First season at Chelsea - age 23) - Games 53 - Goals 7 - Assists 2

02/03 - Age 24 - Games 48 - Goals 8 - Assists 5 

Mount 

19/20 (age 20/21 - First season at Chelsea) - Games 53 - Goals 8 - Assists 6

20/21 (age 21/22) - Games 38 (season on going) - Goals 5 - Assists 6

Grealish (as he seems to be a player everyone wants to compare Mount too) 

17/18 (Age 20/21 - Championship) - Games 34 - Goals 3 - Assists 8

18/19 (Age 21/22 - Championship) - Games 35 - Goals 6 - Assists 8

If you look at those stats: 

1) Mount outperformed SFL in his first season by 1 goal and 4 assits even though he is two years younger. 

2) Mount is on course to again statistically beat SFL in goals and assists in his second year, dispite being 2 years younger. 

3) Grealish was still playing Champo football at the age Mount is now. Thus, Mount is having to operate in more difficult circumstances. That said, he has a +3 goal/assist record over Grealish for their age 20/21 season, albeit in more games. 

4) Mount is -3 goals/assists on Grealish on his age 21/22 season having played more games. However, again it needs to be remembered the level isn't comparable.

Am assuming that's for others because I wasn't even comparing Mount with other players!

[NikkiCFC 8,319]

12 hours ago, Jason said:

Did you say Mount scores regularly? 🤨

Actually he is not that bad if you take away big games and games against top teams. In terms of goals.

I just did research and Mount played already 22 games against big6 clubs. I would add to that Bayern, Valencia, Ajax, Sevilla and Atletico.

These are 31 biggest games he had in Chelsea career. Overall he played 87 games.

So in these 31 games ha has 1 goal (DDG howler) and 1 assist (set piece - Leno howler). So without big GK mistakes it would be 0 and 0. But overall horrific stats.

But in other 56 games against lesser sides 12 goals and 9 assists (5 from set pieces) is not that bad for a midfielder. Actually it is pretty decent.

So no point in playing him against top teams. Industrial work is all that he will give you. Industrial player haha - this is the new term I learned when people praise Mount 😆

People say do not compare him to Grealish, Foden, Maddison...

Ok lets compare him to players from the same team on the same position. 

Overall it is pretty clear that biggest problem in Mount game is vision and creativity and I think this is the most important thing for his position.

Just 4 open play assists in almost 6500 minutes in Chelsea shirt. And it was against Barnsley, Burnley, Rennes and Wolves.

Havertz already 5 in less than 1500 mins. And this is slow start Kai who is nowhere near his best level.

RLC in the season 18/19 under Sarri had 10 goals and 5 assists (all open play) in less than 2000 mins.

Ross Barkley last season 5g and 5a in 1700 mins while Mount had 8g and 5a but in over 3700 mins. Ross 4 open play assists, Mount 2 last season.

So here you can see how everyone is more creative and has better assists stats in twice or more than 4 times less minutes.

I do not understand when people say he looked lively yesterday or against Spurs lately or Southampton. People need to understand what is needed from his position.

Ofc he does when he is in the center of everything and only AM in the team. Did we kept clean sheets? Yes! Thank you defense. Did we controlled the games? Yes! Thank you Kova and Jorgi mostly.

Did we created anything in the final 3rd from open play? Very little in all games under Tuchel. And here you first need to look at Mount. And this is our biggest problem as a team.

Edited February 24, 2021 by NikkiCFC

[MoroccanBlue 5,382]

1 hour ago, NikkiCFC said:

 

I love how you downplayed Mount's goals by his lack of goals scored against top opposition whilst at the same time praising Havertz, RLC, and Barkley for better goals to games ratio when the toughest opposition they scored against were Saints (Havertz), Frankfurt (Ruben) and Liverpool's B team in the FA Cup (Barkley). Your agenda continues to shine through. 😂

It's evident Mount shouldn't be spearheading our attack. He should be playing beneath Ziyech or Havertz. 

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by MoroccanBlue