The Hiddink Thread

[Styles 9,790]

48 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I agree with all off that apart from top 4 and relegation.

The only way we are getting CL next season is if we win it this and the only way we are getting relegated is if we get done for match fixing.

Top 6 is still a realistic aim however, few wins on the spin and we are their or their abouts.

Thing is Tomo, we haven't been in any kind of form since the latter part of 2014.

[Tomo 21,751]

14 minutes ago, Styles said:

Thing is Tomo, we haven't been in any kind of form since the latter part of 2014.

That's true, but the way I see it is their has to be a spell this season before May, where Courtois is unbeatable, Terry is a wall, Cesc is dictating games, Hazard is completely unplayable and Costa can't stop scoring, even if it's just a few games, that will help us climb up the table, especialy in this PL.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

I see Hiddink is getting demonised  now.

Maybe you just don't know what's going on behind the scenes. 

the geezer who said Matic was our midfield liability was spot on.

 

[Styles 9,790]

3 minutes ago, Tomo said:

That's true, but the way I see it is their has to be a spell this season before May, where Courtois is unbeatable, Terry is a wall, Cesc is dictating games, Hazard is completely unplayable and Costa can't stop scoring, even if it's just a few games, that will help us climb up the table, especialy in this PL.

There should be but I'd advise you not to hold your breath 

I can see us finishing somewhere between 8-12.

[Tomo 21,751]

1 minute ago, Styles said:

There should be but I'd advise you not to hold your breath 

I can see us finishing somewhere between 8-12.

I'm a massive believer in law of averages

6th-8th is my prediction, and I'll take that no questions asked to be honest.

[Blue Armour 4,442]

6 hours ago, BlueLion said:

Furthermore...

 

 

• Only four teams have picked up more points than us in the six games since Hiddink's arrival - and all four are top five sides.
• Four points from six on the road (at United and Palace, not what you'd call "easy" games) since Hiddink's arrival.
• The only team in the top flight not to have lost in the last six - a considerable achievement considering the competition the PL can boast this season (the longest unbeaten run any side has maintained is Tottenham with 14, then Leicester with 10, and, in third, West Ham with 8 - but no other side in the division has gone more than 6 matches without a loss). 

For a club of our stature, and for the defending champions, this would constitute a below-par run, but, as I say, when you consider how poor we were under Mourinho, (where only once did we manage to avoid defeat in two consecutive games (Norwich at home, 1-0; Spurs at White Hart Lane, 0-0)), this is definitely progress. 

 

Hiddink has done exactly what needed to be done. We were struggling to do anything, let alone score goals. So he decided to go back to basics and work on a defensive system that would give us the confidence that we wouldn't concede too many goals in a match to undermine our chances of success. Okay, so we've had three high-scoring draws - Watford, West Brom, and Everton yesterday - but if you analyse those goals, I am pretty certain that they all were the result of individual collective errors. For Watford, it's a penalty and a deflected goal which individual players could have done better with. On Wednesday, Pedro gave the ball away and then Zouma backed off, giving Gardner the time to stride on and stroke the ball home, and their second goal came about from a poor clearance. Yesterday was an odd game, a one-in-a-hundred which shouldn't be over-analysed, but again, on all three goals, it's a case of "could have done better", especially for the Funes Mori goal where Ivanovic and Oscar essentially had a snooze. On a collective level we are defending far better as a unit, and also a lot further up the pitch. The biggest thing I've noticed is the distance between the defence and midfield isn't as big as it once was - we're more compact as an eleven and that has led to us getting three clean sheets in six games. 

 

We're also now a more potent attacking side. The average position of Azpilicueta is testament to that. I haven't seen him get so far forward ever for us. That's why he's scoring (West Brom for the 1-0) and assisting (Scunthorpe for RLC's 2-0 goal) all of a sudden. And it's all down to Hiddink's decision to play one player.

 

John Obi Mikel.

 

It is Matic, not Cesc, who has been the midfield liability for us this season. The proof is evident from Cesc's evident return to form in recent games. I think Hiddink made a mistake in playing Mikel and Matic yesterday - that is why we were so negative in the first half - and we improved greatly with Oscar on the pitch. Oscar didn't have a particularly outstanding game, but he kept things ticking over with some simple short passing and was relatively industrious and getting back to give Mikel a hand. Yesterday was actually Mikel's worst game ever under Hiddink, but he was still relatively competent and did what he was on the pitch for. He defended. And he did it well. Matic has been such a liability that not only does he kill our attacks, but he essentially sets them up for the opposition by dawdling on the ball. Mikel is never going to be a special player, but he is the simple, effective focal point of the side. There's a reason we've never lost under Hiddink with Mikel in the side. He sits and screens the defence, and that gives licence for Cesc for get forward and have an impact on the play. And then all of a sudden Costa is scoring goals again. It's like a chain reaction. Mikel gives the defence confidence - that allows Ivanovic and Azpilicueta to push forward - which allows Fabregas to play further forward, and generally in more space - and that brings Costa into the fold. What is it, five goals in four for Diego since Hiddink returned? There's no surprise that we're a better team when Cesc and Diego are firing, and it is down to the simplicity that Mikel offers, in my opinion. He gives us defensive solidarity which enables us to have more attacking potency. 

 

You need to think of our midfield as a giant sandwich. 

 

Mikel is the bread. Boring by itself, but he holds everything together.

Players like Oscar, Willian and Ramires are the butter. They're not particularly special - Willian is having an outstanding season. Don't get me wrong. But is that down to others around him lacking in form and confidence, or because he has suddenly developed into a game changer? I ain't certain. But they keep things ticking over. They're the composite part that the team wouldn't be able to function without. You can have a sandwich without butter but it doesn't wash down well.

Then you have the likes of Pedro, Costa and Hazard. The attacking threat. They're the filling - a nice juicy slice of beef. Again, you can have the bread and butter, but without the filling, it's pretty pointless. There's no substance. 

Then you have Fabregas, our source of inspiration. He is very much so the lick of mustard which makes everything worthwhile. You need the mustard to bring the flavour out of the beef. Otherwise the beef by itself is a little bland.

 

But without the bread, all you've got is a slice of beef that is covered in butter and mustard. No fucking point in that, is there? Not without the bread.

 

Mikel does such a simple role and that is the reason why Mourinho, Grant, Scolari, Hiddink, Ancelotti, Villas-Boas, di Matteo, Benitez, Mourinho again, and now Hiddink again, value his quality and the things he brings to the team. I ain't saying it is all on him, but he's certainly the fulcrum of what we've got going for us. Hiddink is doing what he needs to do, and now the onus is on the players, who're starting to build up a small amount of momentum, to start converting these draws into wins. Let's go on a real run, now. A bit of investment by the board would certainly help, as well. We have most of the tools for a top four push, which I firmly believe is still a possibility. But if top four is a possibility, then so is relegation. Hiddink is doing what he needs to do to stabilise the side. He's doing a top job. 

 

Great post, and loved the sandwich analogy at the end. Though, if I had to choose, Pedro would be the pickle. Not everyone's first choice. Would rather have an extra slice of bacon in Kennedy. 

[Parky 739]

Still undefeated..

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

On 1/16/2016 at 10:58 PM, Henrique said:

Hiddink wasn't necessary, but Getting rid of Mourinho was. Who is in charge is pretty irrelevant. I don't understand how someone who is watching is going on this season at this point can still be discussing if sacking Mourinho didn't improved this team's performance, since the results speak loud, specially when those people are using "smaller" sides arguments, when this team was losing games at against the likes of Bournemouth and getting smashed by Sunderland. So I don't know where the "unequal" thing is coming from, specially when you said the team was "improving", mate, 9 games before Mourinho was sacked all he did was ugly victories at home against Villa and Norwich, one 0-0 against Spurs and 6 defeats. His last two games were defeats with bad football.

But again, I don't care about Jose Mourinho, I'm only concerned about this team surviving the mess he created. More 15 points, please.

Superb post my son in a nutshell the the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

[Rmpr 8,977]

7 hours ago, Parky said:

Still undefeated..

That serves no purpose. Drawing twice is worse than alternating between winning and losing each game.

[Henrique 9,133]

12 hours ago, BlueLion said:

Furthermore...

 

 

• Only four teams have picked up more points than us in the six games since Hiddink's arrival - and all four are top five sides.
• Four points from six on the road (at United and Palace, not what you'd call "easy" games) since Hiddink's arrival.
• The only team in the top flight not to have lost in the last six - a considerable achievement considering the competition the PL can boast this season (the longest unbeaten run any side has maintained is Tottenham with 14, then Leicester with 10, and, in third, West Ham with 8 - but no other side in the division has gone more than 6 matches without a loss). 

For a club of our stature, and for the defending champions, this would constitute a below-par run, but, as I say, when you consider how poor we were under Mourinho, (where only once did we manage to avoid defeat in two consecutive games (Norwich at home, 1-0; Spurs at White Hart Lane, 0-0)), this is definitely progress. 

 

Hiddink has done exactly what needed to be done. We were struggling to do anything, let alone score goals. So he decided to go back to basics and work on a defensive system that would give us the confidence that we wouldn't concede too many goals in a match to undermine our chances of success. Okay, so we've had three high-scoring draws - Watford, West Brom, and Everton yesterday - but if you analyse those goals, I am pretty certain that they all were the result of individual collective errors. For Watford, it's a penalty and a deflected goal which individual players could have done better with. On Wednesday, Pedro gave the ball away and then Zouma backed off, giving Gardner the time to stride on and stroke the ball home, and their second goal came about from a poor clearance. Yesterday was an odd game, a one-in-a-hundred which shouldn't be over-analysed, but again, on all three goals, it's a case of "could have done better", especially for the Funes Mori goal where Ivanovic and Oscar essentially had a snooze. On a collective level we are defending far better as a unit, and also a lot further up the pitch. The biggest thing I've noticed is the distance between the defence and midfield isn't as big as it once was - we're more compact as an eleven and that has led to us getting three clean sheets in six games. 

 

We're also now a more potent attacking side. The average position of Azpilicueta is testament to that. I haven't seen him get so far forward ever for us. That's why he's scoring (West Brom for the 1-0) and assisting (Scunthorpe for RLC's 2-0 goal) all of a sudden. And it's all down to Hiddink's decision to play one player.

 

John Obi Mikel.

 

It is Matic, not Cesc, who has been the midfield liability for us this season. The proof is evident from Cesc's evident return to form in recent games. I think Hiddink made a mistake in playing Mikel and Matic yesterday - that is why we were so negative in the first half - and we improved greatly with Oscar on the pitch. Oscar didn't have a particularly outstanding game, but he kept things ticking over with some simple short passing and was relatively industrious and getting back to give Mikel a hand. Yesterday was actually Mikel's worst game ever under Hiddink, but he was still relatively competent and did what he was on the pitch for. He defended. And he did it well. Matic has been such a liability that not only does he kill our attacks, but he essentially sets them up for the opposition by dawdling on the ball. Mikel is never going to be a special player, but he is the simple, effective focal point of the side. There's a reason we've never lost under Hiddink with Mikel in the side. He sits and screens the defence, and that gives licence for Cesc for get forward and have an impact on the play. And then all of a sudden Costa is scoring goals again. It's like a chain reaction. Mikel gives the defence confidence - that allows Ivanovic and Azpilicueta to push forward - which allows Fabregas to play further forward, and generally in more space - and that brings Costa into the fold. What is it, five goals in four for Diego since Hiddink returned? There's no surprise that we're a better team when Cesc and Diego are firing, and it is down to the simplicity that Mikel offers, in my opinion. He gives us defensive solidarity which enables us to have more attacking potency. 

 

You need to think of our midfield as a giant sandwich. 

 

Mikel is the bread. Boring by itself, but he holds everything together.

Players like Oscar, Willian and Ramires are the butter. 

Then you have the likes of Pedro, Costa and Hazard. 

 

 

 

I disagree about putting Oscar, Ramires and Willian in the same category, and putting Pedro, Costa and Hazard in the same one.

Don't get me wrong, but Pedro is worst than Ramires. 

Hazard is a great player, and Costa is special. Easily the best overall player of this squad in my opinion. William is better than Oscar, he is really a useful player.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

5 hours ago, Henrique said:

I disagree about putting Oscar, Ramires and Willian in the same category, and putting Pedro, Costa and Hazard in the same one.

Don't get me wrong, but Pedro is worst than Ramires. 

Hazard is a great player, and Costa is special. Easily the best overall player of this squad in my opinion. William is better than Oscar, he is really a useful player.

 

Don't get hung up on the analogy. Whoever you put in each category, you need bread to make a sandwich. My point is that the bread - Mikel - is the simple thing that starts everything off. Then you can layer your butter, beef, and mustard.

 

If you couldn't tell, I had been drinking the night before I posted that

[Special Juan 28,141]

2 points from back to back home games is nothing short of terrible. I was expecting 4 at worst, we couldn't even manage that, and we are damn lucky we got 2.

Absolutely sick as fuck.

[manpe 10,861]

4 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

2 points from back to back home games is nothing short of terrible. I was expecting 4 at worst, we couldn't even manage that, and we are damn lucky we got 2.

Absolutely sick as fuck.

It would have been better to win and lose = 3 points. Two draws in a row = 2 points. Being unbeaten is overrated, except for maybe the mental aspect of not losing.

[Special Juan 28,141]

Just now, manpe said:

It would have been better to win and lose = 3 points. Two draws in a row = 2 points. Being unbeaten is overrated, except for maybe the mental aspect of not losing.

I'm always honest with myself and I think the cracks are still massively there and the wound is still infected.

 

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Something, I think we are not taking into consideration, is that the Christmas period was supposed to be our easier period in the season. So I'm not sure how I feel about our position in the form table. Our next few fixtures, I think, will be a lot more telling about whether or not we have turned the corner:

[BlueLyon 9,359]

On 17. 1. 2016 at 1:30 PM, BlueLion said:

Furthermore...

 

 

• Only four teams have picked up more points than us in the six games since Hiddink's arrival - and all four are top five sides.
• Four points from six on the road (at United and Palace, not what you'd call "easy" games) since Hiddink's arrival.
• The only team in the top flight not to have lost in the last six - a considerable achievement considering the competition the PL can boast this season (the longest unbeaten run any side has maintained is Tottenham with 14, then Leicester with 10, and, in third, West Ham with 8 - but no other side in the division has gone more than 6 matches without a loss). 

For a club of our stature, and for the defending champions, this would constitute a below-par run, but, as I say, when you consider how poor we were under Mourinho, (where only once did we manage to avoid defeat in two consecutive games (Norwich at home, 1-0; Spurs at White Hart Lane, 0-0)), this is definitely progress. 

 

Hiddink has done exactly what needed to be done. We were struggling to do anything, let alone score goals. So he decided to go back to basics and work on a defensive system that would give us the confidence that we wouldn't concede too many goals in a match to undermine our chances of success. Okay, so we've had three high-scoring draws - Watford, West Brom, and Everton yesterday - but if you analyse those goals, I am pretty certain that they all were the result of individual collective errors. For Watford, it's a penalty and a deflected goal which individual players could have done better with. On Wednesday, Pedro gave the ball away and then Zouma backed off, giving Gardner the time to stride on and stroke the ball home, and their second goal came about from a poor clearance. Yesterday was an odd game, a one-in-a-hundred which shouldn't be over-analysed, but again, on all three goals, it's a case of "could have done better", especially for the Funes Mori goal where Ivanovic and Oscar essentially had a snooze. On a collective level we are defending far better as a unit, and also a lot further up the pitch. The biggest thing I've noticed is the distance between the defence and midfield isn't as big as it once was - we're more compact as an eleven and that has led to us getting three clean sheets in six games. 

 

We're also now a more potent attacking side. The average position of Azpilicueta is testament to that. I haven't seen him get so far forward ever for us. That's why he's scoring (West Brom for the 1-0) and assisting (Scunthorpe for RLC's 2-0 goal) all of a sudden. And it's all down to Hiddink's decision to play one player.

 

John Obi Mikel.

 

It is Matic, not Cesc, who has been the midfield liability for us this season. The proof is evident from Cesc's evident return to form in recent games. I think Hiddink made a mistake in playing Mikel and Matic yesterday - that is why we were so negative in the first half - and we improved greatly with Oscar on the pitch. Oscar didn't have a particularly outstanding game, but he kept things ticking over with some simple short passing and was relatively industrious and getting back to give Mikel a hand. Yesterday was actually Mikel's worst game ever under Hiddink, but he was still relatively competent and did what he was on the pitch for. He defended. And he did it well. Matic has been such a liability that not only does he kill our attacks, but he essentially sets them up for the opposition by dawdling on the ball. Mikel is never going to be a special player, but he is the simple, effective focal point of the side. There's a reason we've never lost under Hiddink with Mikel in the side. He sits and screens the defence, and that gives licence for Cesc for get forward and have an impact on the play. And then all of a sudden Costa is scoring goals again. It's like a chain reaction. Mikel gives the defence confidence - that allows Ivanovic and Azpilicueta to push forward - which allows Fabregas to play further forward, and generally in more space - and that brings Costa into the fold. What is it, five goals in four for Diego since Hiddink returned? There's no surprise that we're a better team when Cesc and Diego are firing, and it is down to the simplicity that Mikel offers, in my opinion. He gives us defensive solidarity which enables us to have more attacking potency. 

 

You need to think of our midfield as a giant sandwich. 

 

Mikel is the bread. Boring by itself, but he holds everything together.

Players like Oscar, Willian and Ramires are the butter. They're not particularly special - Willian is having an outstanding season. Don't get me wrong. But is that down to others around him lacking in form and confidence, or because he has suddenly developed into a game changer? I ain't certain. But they keep things ticking over. They're the composite part that the team wouldn't be able to function without. You can have a sandwich without butter but it doesn't wash down well.

Then you have the likes of Pedro, Costa and Hazard. The attacking threat. They're the filling - a nice juicy slice of beef. Again, you can have the bread and butter, but without the filling, it's pretty pointless. There's no substance. 

Then you have Fabregas, our source of inspiration. He is very much so the lick of mustard which makes everything worthwhile. You need the mustard to bring the flavour out of the beef. Otherwise the beef by itself is a little bland.

 

But without the bread, all you've got is a slice of beef that is covered in butter and mustard. No fucking point in that, is there? Not without the bread.

 

Mikel does such a simple role and that is the reason why Mourinho, Grant, Scolari, Hiddink, Ancelotti, Villas-Boas, di Matteo, Benitez, Mourinho again, and now Hiddink again, value his quality and the things he brings to the team. I ain't saying it is all on him, but he's certainly the fulcrum of what we've got going for us. Hiddink is doing what he needs to do, and now the onus is on the players, who're starting to build up a small amount of momentum, to start converting these draws into wins. Let's go on a real run, now. A bit of investment by the board would certainly help, as well. We have most of the tools for a top four push, which I firmly believe is still a possibility. But if top four is a possibility, then so is relegation. Hiddink is doing what he needs to do to stabilise the side. He's doing a top job. 

 

Sandwich? Our team right now is more like an onion.

There is a layer of shit and when you peel that layer off, there are dozen more layers of shit inside.

[manpe 10,861]

31 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Sandwich? Our team right now is more like an onion.

There is a layer of shit and when you peel that layer off, there are dozen more layers of shit inside.

That would be fitting if onions were shit, they are not.

[Blue_Fox_ 2,086]

I like onions, analogy denied.

[Muzchap 8,966]

3 hours ago, manpe said:

That would be fitting if onions were shit, they are not.

Ok, they're not shit - but they still make you cry ???

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

Mourinho leaves a little surprise for his successor in the dugout