Cesc Fàbregas

[The Chels 2,502]

When did Ramires actually create chances from open play a lot? Never, hes a box to box midfielder, covers a lot of ground, supports the attack, breaks up play. I think your fucking high because if you ever thought he created a lot you really didn't watch the same Ramires as I did.

Lose his cool? Shit happens, stop trying to nitpick because if thats your argument it is fucking stupid because good players have lost their cool for stupid reasons. Players get frustrated and do stupid shit, always have and always will do.

That was exactly my point. Ramires is a good squad player and will no doubt be of use in certain games but for the vast majority of PL games he doesn't offer the attributes - passing and creating - we require from the CM partnering Matic. Also I think 'losing his cool' is putting it too mildly, more like petulance and brainlessness.

[Barbara 15,149]

I disagree. When he was playing well he was good enough, but after one bad season all of a sudden he's poor and isn't good enough to play for us?

No, I've always thought he was poor with the good season being the exception. Sorry, mate, never been a fan and I don't think I'll ever be...

Just look this: http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#la_liga/2013/2014/francesc_f%C3%A1bregas/69/69/306/0/p|premier_league/2013/2014/ramires/64/64/443/0/p|premier_league/2013/2014/david_luiz/64/64/448/0/p|premier_league/2013/2014/frank_lampard/64/64/431/0/p|premier_league/2013/2014/john_obi_mikel/64/64/434/0/p#successful_passes/avg_pass_length/chances_created/clearances#90

Which I found in that Squawka article someone posted. How can we have a player whose average of successful passes is below 40. That's unacceptable imo even for a player in the pivot. He's a B2B, he can't pass so little. A DM yes, but a B2B no.

[Chelsea? 892]

Oscar and Ramirez had similar season's last year.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

I have to say, Ramires is not as good as I initially thought he was. BUT, we aren't in a position were Ramires has to leave. He's a very useful player to have in your team. Not only does he cover a lot of kilometres and work his butt off for the cause of his team, he is also pretty versatile. Remember he can play on the right side to "close" things down when need be. Remember how Jose used him against City to neutralize Kolarov's runs and to a lesser extent, prevent Silva from drifting to the left and forcing him to go the center (even though admittedly, Silva always does that), where he was marked out by David Luiz and Matic. In that game, Ramires was hopeless offensively though, further exemplifying his limitations. We also need him because Jose will also be going 4-3-3 in certain matches next season. If Ramires was put on the market tomorrow, the very biggest clubs in Europe will by vying for his signature, I'm sure of it.

There's no doubt in my mind that he's nowhere near good enough technically to be a starter in a passing side, hence the desire to sign Fabregas. But no one can deny his tactical flexibility and the energy, verve and drive he brings. He should be an important squad guy, nothing more, nothing less.

[The Chels 2,502]

By your logic, neither Cole or Lamps "deserved tothe wear a Chelsea shirt"based and if you think that, you're clearly not a Chelsea fan.

But enough of this argument, we need to talk about Cesc!

I just quoted that phrase ('deserve to wear the shirt') from another poster but fair enough I can see why you think it sounds spiteful. My point is simply that Ramires is not good enough to start for Chelsea.

[Waterfall 893]

Not surprised people are making Ramires the scapegoat. When things aren't great, his type of players (the non-sexy ones) are always the first to get criticized: Kuyt for Liverpool, Park for United etc.

[iseah100 5,612]

No, I've always thought he was poor with the good season being the exception. Sorry, mate, never been a fan and I don't think I'll ever be...

Just look this: http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#la_liga/2013/2014/francesc_f%C3%A1bregas/69/69/306/0/p|premier_league/2013/2014/ramires/64/64/443/0/p|premier_league/2013/2014/david_luiz/64/64/448/0/p|premier_league/2013/2014/frank_lampard/64/64/431/0/p|premier_league/2013/2014/john_obi_mikel/64/64/434/0/p#successful_passes/avg_pass_length/chances_created/clearances#90

Which I found in that Squawka article someone posted. How can we have a player whose average of successful passes is below 40. That's unacceptable imo even for a player in the pivot. He's a B2B, he can't pass so little. A DM yes, but a B2B no.

Possibly, but he can still have that form from 2011-12 in the right system. Give him some time before screaming for a sale of the guy. He is very valuable to this club and to Mou.

I just quoted that phrase ('deserve to wear the shirt') from another poster but fair enough I can see why you think it sounds spiteful. My point is simply that Ramires is not good enough to start for Chelsea.

Not to start, especially if Cesc comes, but he still has value and has a place on the squad.

Not surprised people are making Ramires the scapegoat. When things aren't great, his type of players (the non-sexy ones) are always the first to get criticized: Kuyt for Liverpool, Park for United etc.

I liked Park...

[Barbara 15,149]

Not surprised people are making Ramires the scapegoat. When things aren't great, his type of players (the non-sexy ones) are always the first to get criticized: Kuyt for Liverpool, Park for United etc.

and what is non-sexy?

There are Chelsea fans on my Twitter that have known me before he was signed and who I've had long convos about my dislike for him.

I expect a DM to defend well, a CM to do both defensive work and transition and build up play well. He's a good tackler, but he's a terrible passer... and he isn't very smart when he has the ball and he has the odd day where he elbows the opponent and gets himself a 6-match ban.

There's no scapegoat situation because nobody is blaming him for anything we didn't attain this season, we're just calling for an upgrade. Anyone who doesn't want an upgrade from Ramires has questionable taste/view imo, although it's their entitled right to like him... It doesn't even take much to improve from him...

Possibly, but he can still have that form from 2011-12 in the right system. Give him some time before screaming for a sale of the guy. He is very valuable to this club and to Mou.

I don't need us to sell him, just for him to have the same role in the team Mikel had this season...

[The Chels 2,502]

Actually it was more than just "one" moment, and not everyone has the memory of a goldfish.

I think its equally illogical to say that the player isn't fit to wear the shirt based of a string of recent performances,.... especially in a season where he hasn't had a decent run of consecutive matches to achieve any sort of consistency.

Are you seriously suggesting Ramires didn't get enough game time last season? Personally I thought he showed more than enough reasons as to why he isn't good enough to start for Chelsea, not that he isn't fit to wear the shirt which I admit is not the right wording.

[The Chels 2,502]

Just look this: http://www.squawka.c...d/clearances#90 Which I found in that Squawka article someone posted. How can we have a player whose average of successful passes is below 40. That's unacceptable imo even for a player in the pivot. He's a B2B, he can't pass so little. A DM yes, but a B2B no.

Wow that's ridiculously poor. He doesn't even attempt any difficult passes!

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

I disagree. When he was playing well he was good enough, but after one bad season all of a sudden he's poor and isn't good enough to play for us?

Exactly but specific players who have also had bad seasons like Oscar are apparently still good enough? Its the same thing really. Just people are taking it out on Ramires and not Oscar. I've seen people in this thread criticize Ramires but I bet in the Oscar thread they are saying he needs to stay when others are saying he should be sold if we get a high bid and he will improve because he is a world class talent and whatever else etc.

I just quoted that phrase ('deserve to wear the shirt') from another poster but fair enough I can see why you think it sounds spiteful. My point is simply that Ramires is not good enough to start for Chelsea.

No I thought your point was Ramires didn't deserve to wear the shirt and he was living off one goal he scored and you've not given one response which explains how you think that. Instead you've gone on about how he'd be a good squad player now or that he doesn't create chances or whatever but you've not said why he doesn't deserve to wear the shirt or how hes been living off that goal when he hasn't.

[iseah100 5,612]

and what is non-sexy?

There are Chelsea fans on my Twitter that have known me before he was signed and who I've had long convos about my dislike for him.

I expect a DM to defend well, a CM to do both defensive work and transition and build up play well. He's a good tackler, but he's a terrible passer... and he isn't very smart when he has the ball and he has the odd day where he elbows the opponent and gets himself a 6-match ban.

There's no scapegoat situation because nobody is blaming him for anything we didn't attain this season, we're just calling for an upgrade. Anyone who doesn't want an upgrade from Ramires has questionable taste/view imo, although it's their entitled right to like him... It doesn't even take much to improve from him...

We get it, you've never ever ever ever ever liked him, but he has value. He is a great asset, he can run all day and defend well and most importantly Mou likes him. I think he will regain form next season and have that 12 goal, 9 assist type season from 2012.

I don't need us to sell him, just for him to have the same role in the team Mikel had this season...

He can do more than Mikel. Rotation.

[The Chels 2,502]

and he was living off one goal he scored and you've not given one response which explains how you think that.

Well perhaps it stems from the fact that whenever any criticism is hurled his way, fans like you automatically resort to:

I'd love to hear your version of how Chelsea won its first Champions League...

[DROGBAtheGOAT 29]

It is pretty simple imo. We won't win shit next year if Ramires is in the starting 11 for a majority of the matches.

[Barbara 15,149]

We get it, you've never ever ever ever ever liked him, but he has value. He is a great asset, he can run all day and defend well and most importantly Mou likes him. I think he will regain form next season and have that 12 goal, 9 assist type season from 2012.

I'm a Brazilian... I want my players to do more than simply run all day and defend well. They don't need to necessarily have flair, but they need to have quality.

I'm willing to bet one of my limbs Ramires will never even come close to have those stats in his Chelsea career in the future. And I do hope he becomes a bench warmer... although I doubt it'll happen. Mourinho does like him.