Cesc Fàbregas

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

I have to say, Ramires is not as good as I initially thought he was. BUT, we aren't in a position were Ramires has to leave. He's a very useful player to have in your team. Not only does he cover a lot of kilometres and work his butt off for the cause of his team, he is also pretty versatile. Remember he can play on the right side to "close" things down when need be. Remember how Jose used him against City to neutralize Kolarov's runs and to a lesser extent, prevent Silva from drifting to the left and forcing him to go the center (even though admittedly, Silva always does that), where he was marked out by David Luiz and Matic. In that game, Ramires was hopeless offensively though, further exemplifying his limitations. We also need him because Jose will also be going 4-3-3 in certain matches next season. If Ramires was put on the market tomorrow, the very biggest clubs in Europe will by vying for his signature, I'm sure of it.

There's no doubt in my mind that he's nowhere near good enough technically to be a starter in a passing side, hence the desire to sign Fabregas. But no one can deny his tactical flexibility and the energy, verve and drive he brings. He should be an important squad guy, nothing more, nothing less.

[The Chels 2,502]

By your logic, neither Cole or Lamps "deserved tothe wear a Chelsea shirt"based and if you think that, you're clearly not a Chelsea fan.

But enough of this argument, we need to talk about Cesc!

I just quoted that phrase ('deserve to wear the shirt') from another poster but fair enough I can see why you think it sounds spiteful. My point is simply that Ramires is not good enough to start for Chelsea.

[Waterfall 893]

Not surprised people are making Ramires the scapegoat. When things aren't great, his type of players (the non-sexy ones) are always the first to get criticized: Kuyt for Liverpool, Park for United etc.

[iseah100 5,612]

No, I've always thought he was poor with the good season being the exception. Sorry, mate, never been a fan and I don't think I'll ever be...

Just look this: http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#la_liga/2013/2014/francesc_f%C3%A1bregas/69/69/306/0/p|premier_league/2013/2014/ramires/64/64/443/0/p|premier_league/2013/2014/david_luiz/64/64/448/0/p|premier_league/2013/2014/frank_lampard/64/64/431/0/p|premier_league/2013/2014/john_obi_mikel/64/64/434/0/p#successful_passes/avg_pass_length/chances_created/clearances#90

Which I found in that Squawka article someone posted. How can we have a player whose average of successful passes is below 40. That's unacceptable imo even for a player in the pivot. He's a B2B, he can't pass so little. A DM yes, but a B2B no.

Possibly, but he can still have that form from 2011-12 in the right system. Give him some time before screaming for a sale of the guy. He is very valuable to this club and to Mou.

I just quoted that phrase ('deserve to wear the shirt') from another poster but fair enough I can see why you think it sounds spiteful. My point is simply that Ramires is not good enough to start for Chelsea.

Not to start, especially if Cesc comes, but he still has value and has a place on the squad.

Not surprised people are making Ramires the scapegoat. When things aren't great, his type of players (the non-sexy ones) are always the first to get criticized: Kuyt for Liverpool, Park for United etc.

I liked Park...

[Barbara 15,149]

Not surprised people are making Ramires the scapegoat. When things aren't great, his type of players (the non-sexy ones) are always the first to get criticized: Kuyt for Liverpool, Park for United etc.

and what is non-sexy?

There are Chelsea fans on my Twitter that have known me before he was signed and who I've had long convos about my dislike for him.

I expect a DM to defend well, a CM to do both defensive work and transition and build up play well. He's a good tackler, but he's a terrible passer... and he isn't very smart when he has the ball and he has the odd day where he elbows the opponent and gets himself a 6-match ban.

There's no scapegoat situation because nobody is blaming him for anything we didn't attain this season, we're just calling for an upgrade. Anyone who doesn't want an upgrade from Ramires has questionable taste/view imo, although it's their entitled right to like him... It doesn't even take much to improve from him...

Possibly, but he can still have that form from 2011-12 in the right system. Give him some time before screaming for a sale of the guy. He is very valuable to this club and to Mou.

I don't need us to sell him, just for him to have the same role in the team Mikel had this season...

[The Chels 2,502]

Actually it was more than just "one" moment, and not everyone has the memory of a goldfish.

I think its equally illogical to say that the player isn't fit to wear the shirt based of a string of recent performances,.... especially in a season where he hasn't had a decent run of consecutive matches to achieve any sort of consistency.

Are you seriously suggesting Ramires didn't get enough game time last season? Personally I thought he showed more than enough reasons as to why he isn't good enough to start for Chelsea, not that he isn't fit to wear the shirt which I admit is not the right wording.

[The Chels 2,502]

Just look this: http://www.squawka.c...d/clearances#90 Which I found in that Squawka article someone posted. How can we have a player whose average of successful passes is below 40. That's unacceptable imo even for a player in the pivot. He's a B2B, he can't pass so little. A DM yes, but a B2B no.

Wow that's ridiculously poor. He doesn't even attempt any difficult passes!

[OneMoSalah 8,776]

I disagree. When he was playing well he was good enough, but after one bad season all of a sudden he's poor and isn't good enough to play for us?

Exactly but specific players who have also had bad seasons like Oscar are apparently still good enough? Its the same thing really. Just people are taking it out on Ramires and not Oscar. I've seen people in this thread criticize Ramires but I bet in the Oscar thread they are saying he needs to stay when others are saying he should be sold if we get a high bid and he will improve because he is a world class talent and whatever else etc.

I just quoted that phrase ('deserve to wear the shirt') from another poster but fair enough I can see why you think it sounds spiteful. My point is simply that Ramires is not good enough to start for Chelsea.

No I thought your point was Ramires didn't deserve to wear the shirt and he was living off one goal he scored and you've not given one response which explains how you think that. Instead you've gone on about how he'd be a good squad player now or that he doesn't create chances or whatever but you've not said why he doesn't deserve to wear the shirt or how hes been living off that goal when he hasn't.

[iseah100 5,612]

and what is non-sexy?

There are Chelsea fans on my Twitter that have known me before he was signed and who I've had long convos about my dislike for him.

I expect a DM to defend well, a CM to do both defensive work and transition and build up play well. He's a good tackler, but he's a terrible passer... and he isn't very smart when he has the ball and he has the odd day where he elbows the opponent and gets himself a 6-match ban.

There's no scapegoat situation because nobody is blaming him for anything we didn't attain this season, we're just calling for an upgrade. Anyone who doesn't want an upgrade from Ramires has questionable taste/view imo, although it's their entitled right to like him... It doesn't even take much to improve from him...

We get it, you've never ever ever ever ever liked him, but he has value. He is a great asset, he can run all day and defend well and most importantly Mou likes him. I think he will regain form next season and have that 12 goal, 9 assist type season from 2012.

I don't need us to sell him, just for him to have the same role in the team Mikel had this season...

He can do more than Mikel. Rotation.

[The Chels 2,502]

and he was living off one goal he scored and you've not given one response which explains how you think that.

Well perhaps it stems from the fact that whenever any criticism is hurled his way, fans like you automatically resort to:

I'd love to hear your version of how Chelsea won its first Champions League...

[DROGBAtheGOAT 29]

It is pretty simple imo. We won't win shit next year if Ramires is in the starting 11 for a majority of the matches.

[Barbara 15,149]

We get it, you've never ever ever ever ever liked him, but he has value. He is a great asset, he can run all day and defend well and most importantly Mou likes him. I think he will regain form next season and have that 12 goal, 9 assist type season from 2012.

I'm a Brazilian... I want my players to do more than simply run all day and defend well. They don't need to necessarily have flair, but they need to have quality.

I'm willing to bet one of my limbs Ramires will never even come close to have those stats in his Chelsea career in the future. And I do hope he becomes a bench warmer... although I doubt it'll happen. Mourinho does like him.

[The Chels 2,502]

I'm a Brazilian... I want my players to do more than simply run all day and defend well.

Damn there is just no escaping Ramires for you, having to watch him for Chelsea and then Brazil as well lol! At least he won't start in the World Cup (at least I think he won't?)!

[OneMoSalah 8,776]

Well perhaps it stems from the fact that whenever any criticism is hurled his way, fans like you automatically resort to:

but its true, he was a vital part of that team, wasn't he? or did you not know that?

You don't concentrate on the past but you can't dismiss what a players done in his past. Hes done his fair share since arriving, hes a good player. Sure hes not world class but hes a good player and is worthy of a role at Chelsea.

[iseah100 5,612]

I'm a Brazilian... I want my players to do more than simply run all day and defend well. They don't need to necessarily have flair, but they need to have quality.

I'm willing to bet one of my limbs Ramires will never even come close to have those stats in his Chelsea career in the future. And I do hope he becomes a bench warmer... although I doubt it'll happen. Mourinho does like him.

That's what our coach wants a lot of. And i like it too. We'll see, i for one, want him to do well. As i want for all of our players.

[Symbol123 175]

We need a new Fabregas rumor to shut all this Ramires talk up

[Chelsea? 892]

We should definitely not count on him starting much next year. But as a squad player, I can't name 10 players I'd rather have. On his day he can be motm against a team like city away due to his versatility.

[Special Juan 27,424]

Back to Fabregas please, there is a thread for Ramires.