No.10 Role

[Jase 43,479]

Much have been made about who's better in the No.10/CAM role between Mata and Oscar and think rather than every time going back and forth in their topics about the issue, might as well just have the entire discussion here to make things easier. And the latest revelation about this debate is this (no, not Falcao but the one slightly below)...

For larger size of the picture, click link below and enlarge it..

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BUoobO1CIAE_asT.jpg:large

[Barbara 15,149]

Mata is the better #10 when on top of his game - but who also has a disappointing work rating that may - or may not - have been the reason why our defense and overall results the last couple of years have been less than impressive - saved for the UCL title.

Oscar is a more complete player, but creatively he doesn't come close to Mata. Still people should prepare themselves to see the boy blossom, as he's still young and gaining confidence on his own game in Europe and at the club. He is going to be more creative and dynamic than he's right now, although I don't think he'll ever come close to Mata in that department.

The problem we have today is that one of them is at the top of his shape, completely fit and committed with the team work while the other is struggling to find his better fitness, has been offering very little both defensively (as expected) and offensively (surprisingly) and while some may debate he needs minutes to regain his best game the truth is we don't know what will take for Mata to find his best game again because if he keeps repeating he's physically fit - and he seems to be - the problem may reside on confidence and that could come with matches or not - depending on how much his emotions are playing a role in this situation. Depending on if he needs Mourinho's confidence to build his own or if he needs to prove to himself he can do better, minutes could have opposite results in his recovery.

Also, at the end of the day we need to take into consideration what the team needs most: creativity or a player that fits better the philosophy? This isn't 2011/12 season anymore where Mata was the only creative player in the entire squad. This also isn't the same as last season where Hazard and Oscar were adapting. In addition to that Willian, de Bruyne and André offer quite a lot of options in the wing to make up for Mata's absence and consequently his creativity. Who among them all gives the team the balance Oscar brings by being superb in the work-rate and defensively and also adding in the creativity?

At the end of the day do Oscar, Hazard + one make up for Mata creativity or not? Can we afford to have such creative and attack prone players such as Hazard, Mata + one out of de Bruyne, Willian and André, but at the same time compromise the team's work rate balance? It's true André has also a very good work-rate more often than not shutting down the wingers and FB on his side of the pitch and Hazard also made progress in the department.

The last two years could prove that we lacked this balance and couldn't be competitive because we weren't balanced enough. Or they prove we could and should have created more with other players instead of overloading Mata, relying not only on Mata to deliver goals, assists and key-passes.

[Sheva. 5,373]

The 2nd most creative player in the league (Master Ozil is here now), top 5 CAM in the world, and he's now backup all of a sudden, or has to play from the wings. It's bullshit, many clubs will come in for him next window and he'll take his creativity somewhere it's more appreciated.

[ephreak 42]

What is Mourinhos problem anyway. It seems like lately he has been in conflicts with several players (think real madrid). Sorry but I actually value Mata higher than Mourinho.

[robsblubot 3,257]

False dichotomy.

Mata could play along with Oscar just fine; the problem is that we've already got another attacking-minded AM in Hazard. As we've seen time and time again, our midfield becomes a bit light when Mata and Hazard play behind a striker. Yes, Oscar does track back and play deep, but that clearnly hasn't been enough.

People have been asking for better CMs for a long time, but I reckon Chelsea and Mourinho don't see that as a problem; they see the lack in numbers as a bigger problem.

[Jase 43,479]

Have added a poll in as well.

But please, please do not turn this discussion into where everywhere start bashing one another in the wrong way because of clashes of opinion.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

The best option right now is to play Mata on the right and get the whole inverted winger going.

It is pretty clear Oscar is a born #10, so it's best not to try him in he pivot. DeBruyne is the man suited for he pivot IMO.

MaZaCar has always been our best attacking trio and Mour should give it a shot atleast 2 games running and see what happens.

[Hutcho 8,443]

Mata over oscar in the CAM. 2 seasons time it will probably be different. But mata has shown more than enough in the last 2 seasons to warrant being number 1.

[Kojo 4,676]

*Moans*

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

The 2nd most creative player in the league (Master Ozil is here now), top 5 CAM in the world, and he's now backup all of a sudden, or has to play from the wings. It's bullshit, many clubs will come in for him next window and he'll take his creativity somewhere it's more appreciated.

I don't really get it either. Yes, Mata is not in form, but it is absolutely impossible to gain form by playing out of position and only once every few games. Oscar is a more balanced player but you can see what we're missing from last season without Mata. We simply don't have near the same creativity that we have when Mata is going. Oscar is a more balanced player but is not near the creator that Mata is. I think you can get away with less creativity in the middle if we had real wingers who stretch the defense or someone like Rooney who is a very creative striker, but right now we have the same issue as last year where players just crowd the middle of the pitch so we are too easy to defend against.

Oscar was fantastic against Hull and against Basel but apart from that has been pretty poor so I'm not sure where this "fantastic form" stuff comes from for him. He has 6 total chances created in the Premier League this season which is half of Hazard, the same as Ramires and one more than Lampard despite playing in the position that lends itself to creating the most. (Mata created 2.7 chances a game last season for example. Oscar is at 1.5) He's also gone down from 2.5 tackles a game to 0.8. Whoscored has him as our 8th best player so far and Squawka as our 7th. We've all seen what he's capable of, but he has to improve significantly offensively which is very possible given his age and natural skills.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

Everyone knows Oscar will be better than Mata in a couple of years maybe even sooner but there's no way that's the case right now.

Mata will be surely be gone before the next window now it seems. A player of his calibre deserves to start and with the talent competing with him for a spot on the plane to the World Cup he can't be a bit part player.

[Waterfall 893]

Oscar. I like his combination of intelligence, work rate and directness. I absolutely love Mata, but he kinda disappears in big cup matches where we play counter attacking game à la Napoli, Barca, Bayern, Liverpool (FAC), Benfica (Europa)

[Sheva. 5,373]

Oscar. I like his combination of intelligence, work rate and directness. I absolutely love Mata, but he kinda disappears in big cup matches where we play counter attacking game à la Napoli, Barca, Bayern, Liverpool (FAC), Benfica (Europa)

Fair enough. But what about the remaining games where we don't play on the counter? Oscar not even up to half of Mata when it comes to creativity, and breaking down a parked bus.

[Stats 6,987]

I like Oscar a lot but Mata is up there with the best no.10 in the world IMO. I don't think we will find another midfielder (maybe Hazard) here who manages to get as much goals and assists in 1 season as Mata did last season. He might not be considered an automatic choice under Mourinho but as the season progresses I am sure Mata will prove why he has so often proved to be the difference for us. Oscar is a quality player but Mata is pure class and I hope Mourinho would never ever contemplate the ludicrous idea of selling him. He started slowly last season then gradually produced moments of magic last season and it is a big season ahead and he has loads of time to replicate that form.

[Barbara 15,149]

Another clear thing is that Mourinho clearly says he won't play Oscar in the pivot when he compares the situation of both Oscar and Ramires closing down opponents on each side while Mata plays behind the striker with freedom to do his magic vs Oscar playing #10 and it fitting the system he has in mind.

Also it's telling when he implies that Mata started a match we couldn't win and came in a match we were winning 1x0 with specific tasks wen the outcome was us losing 2x1. Can he be clearer than that giving Mata some responsibility over both defeats? Look how just a few lines below he praises Oscar to the highest level saying he's been hands down our best player this season.

I would say things don't look bright for Mata right now, but I really don't know what benefits us better in the end.

I do agree with him that I don't like the football - results wise and even the style [actually the lack of any style] - we've played for the last seasons. I'm not sure if it passes through Mata's completely inexistent work-rate, his slowness, and fragile physical figure or not. Sometimes I feel he is too small for the physicality of EPL and that comes with a price. But then again we would need to have the other situation to compare (at least I would need, I can't have the answers only based on confabulations) where we don't have a player as creative as him - splitting the creation work with three players instead of focusing on only one, but that who also offer us more stability physically and defensively. I honestly don't know which is why I can't vote for the poll.

I know I miss Mata's creativity and that it hurts us that he isn't able to be as creative. I also know the six goals we conceded this season were more related to mistakes in the defense rather than giving away possession in the midfield - although the corner to Basel's goal started with us giving away possession there (Everton's too), but still it's only six goals over all and I would need (and love) to have deep stats about all goals we concede last season that came from a light midfield - whether the mistakes are made by Mata or not. It's the lightness that Mata brings that I don't know if we can afford. Oscar is quite light himself (thin), but he makes up for it somehow. Right now we have a heavier AM with Willian, Hazard, de Bruyne and Schürrle being not only bigger, but seemingly stronger physically and also with better work-rate...

I don't have the answer, but I have tons of questions

[Waterfall 893]

Fair enough. But what about the remaining games where we don't play on the counter? Oscar not even up to half of Mata when it comes to creativity, and breaking down a parked bus.

I do think that Mata's a much better option in that case at least at this stage of Oscar's career. Oscar however has bigger potential IMO.

[OneMoSalah 8,616]

I am very very confused with Mourinho's quotes and what looks like his opinion on Juan Mata.

He has insisted Chelsea will play differently, a more possession based game where our creative players create chances and score goals, like we've been trying to implement for the last few years. So why doesn't he play the best player in our squad in a position where he scored 15 goals, got nearly 20 assists and constantly created chances for his teammates, in comparison to Oscar who scored 10 or 11 goals, got under 10 assists and didn't really create as much as Juan did?

Its pretty obvious Oscar is rated highly by Mourinho due to his defensive capabilities as well as his offensive ones (which are inferior to Mata's may I add), we have more balance when Oscar plays in the #10 role but what does he do offensively that Mata doesn't? Not much but in all fairness to Oscar, hes always looking to get on the ball, make himself available, help the double pivot/center backs out when they are under pressure by making himself an option. His defensive skills are better obviously, we all know that but still in a Mourinho team a few years ago I remember he played Wesley Sneidjer every game for more or less 2 seasons despite his poor defensive contribution.

Mourinho's refusal to play Mata often on the wing or as the number 10 obviously isn't because of his lack of offensive contribution as he is our joint best offensive player with Eden. I get the defensive contribution is probably one of Mata's fault but Mourinho built his Inter Milan side around Sneidjer who is a very good #10, who did fuck all in terms of defense - as Spike Spiegel pointed out to me in his thread when we were linked with him after Mou returned. Sure he had players like Cambiasso and Motta in the team with him, who are combative players who did a lot of tackling and intercepting etc but we have Ramires and Mikel who can do the same jobs to compensate for Mata's lack of defensive work rate. Even at Madrid, Jose had Ozil who was a lazy player and Ronaldo who did next to nothing in terms of defensive work but he played two aggressive players who could compensate for that in Khedira and Alonso.

There is clearly something else going on with Mata and Mourinho. Oscar still has offensive work to do, he's probably been one of our better players but certainly not our best player this season. We look toothless at the moment, our strikers cannot score and our attacking midfielders are creating next to nothing, so something has to give, either Jose drops Oscar for Juan and loses a bit of stability in the team or Oscar starts opening teams up in the way Mata has done for us for the last 2 years.

Mourinho has confused me in general at times. We have lacked any sort of proper style this season. He confused me loaning out Moses and replacing him with another #10 in Willian (even though he looked pretty good on his debut, he's just another #10 that can play on the wing - which isn't his even best position, why are we paying 30m for a #10 just to play him on the wing?!?!?!), in games against teams that will sit in against us and crowd out the midfield we are going to be fucked, we lack any sort of proper winger who will hug the touchline and stretch teams. He was our best option to take on with 20 or 30 minutes to go and stretch teams in my eyes. Willian, De Bruyne or Schurrle won't do the same as it isn't their natural game. We lack variation, as Ballack said the other night we had too many similar players in our team, they were all running into the same spaces, sort of restricting our play.

P.S. I can't see us selling Mata, Emenalo is obviously a big fan of his, so I doubt he'll be sold as Emenalo has quite the influence these days.

[Jase 43,479]

Another clear thing is that Mourinho clearly says he won't play Oscar in the pivot when he compares the situation of both Oscar and Ramires closing down opponents on each side while Mata plays behind the striker with freedom to do his magic vs Oscar playing #10 and it fitting the system he has in mind.

Something tells me that was a sly dig at Benitez and RDM to play that kind of lineup. And in fact, the former did that against Benfica in the EL final.