Ilkay Gundogan

[didierforever 7,349]

DD my friend I know you dislike Cesc and I agree he is a liability against good pressing teams but we shouldn't forget what he is capable of.

He had over 20 assists for us last season and his general vision is a big big joy to watch when he's in form, just like Hazard's dribbles.

I'd say vision and the final pass: Cesc>Gundogan

Look at this video: https://youtu.be/YXKA5rTAjGE

pfff look at that pass at 01:50, I miss that Cesc, his passing sometimes was so sick, he was sublime.

sorry but one pass per a match proves nothing. there was a video compilation of mikel that would make him look like messi.

what this video does not show that for every 1 sublime pass there are 5 times where he tries this pass and loses the ball or just simply loses the ball under any pressure at all.

his "vision" is only good when he gets ample time and space.

in his early days at chelsea, teams were not sure of how to play against him. they defended with a lower block concentrating more on eden and costa which gave cesc the time and space to run the show. remember when we all wondered why his performances in "big games" was so poor. well, this was because big teams pressed and never gave him an oppurtunity to settle on the ball. now that all teams have started doing this, he has been totally and fully exposed.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

DD my friend I know you dislike Cesc and I agree he is a liability against good pressing teams but we shouldn't forget what he is capable of.

He had over 20 assists for us last season and his general vision is a big big joy to watch when he's in form, just like Hazard's dribbles.

I'd say vision and the final pass: Cesc>Gundogan

Look at this video: https://youtu.be/YXKA5rTAjGE

pfff look at that pass at 01:50, I miss that Cesc, his passing sometimes was so sick, he was sublime.

He can be better on paper and statistics but he will never perform on pitch as good against better teams than Gundogan. Even inform Cesc last season was piss poor against top opponents.

Sure assists are great thing, and that can save you if you are #10 or winger. But for CM and to play under manager like Mou, you need alot more. And Cesc simply isnt that.

If we miss Gundogan to fucking liverpool or juve, and stick with Cesc just because Mou is his friend, I will be dissapointed.

If Barca goes with bid we have no chance, but if anyone else bids for him, we should counter offer as much as it takes to get him.

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

sorry but one pass per a match proves nothing. there was a video compilation of mikel that would make him look like messi.

what this video does not show that for every 1 sublime pass there are 5 times where he tries this pass and loses the ball or just simply loses the ball under any pressure at all.

his "vision" is only good when he gets ample time and space.

in his early days at chelsea, teams were not sure of how to play against him. they defended with a lower block concentrating more on eden and costa which gave cesc the time and space to run the show. remember when we all wondered why his performances in "big games" was so poor. well, this was because big teams pressed and never gave him an oppurtunity to settle on the ball. now that all teams have started doing this, he has been totally and fully exposed

I am not a fan of Cesc either. But if you want to dismiss him, do it for the right reasons. I agree that, mainly because he has limitted his play to passing, oppositions have grown wary of Cesc and can easily contain him now. But IMO he is doing better in big games than he did at Arsenal. Remember ManU and Arsenal at home? Two game-winning contributions. No imposing performances but a decisive impact on the game which is exactly what he has delivered in his better games against smaller teams. But the problem is he is - just as Mata who he replaced - a specialist. All Fabregas has is his vision and his passing. He is a below average athlete, not only for a footballer but in general for a man of his age + his technique is not really great. His strategic ability, reading of the game and defending is average at best as well. He has a decent touch but can neither shoot nor dribble. Hence IMO the Gündogan comparisons are spot on. Gündogan is a midfield allrounder and thus would provide a far better long-term solution for our midfield.

The thing is, Jose knew what Fabregas brings to the table and what not. He knew a good first half of the season fuelled by the individual brilliance and suprise effect of Costa+Fabregas would deliver the league title. But their failings of this season add to the concerns that JOse cannot tactically reshape a team to be a threat for more than 3 years: he obviously has strategic deficiencies. He should have known that Fabregas will easily get found out when out of form But still he had no plan B. Add to that the possibly untimely discharges of Mata, Lukaku and KDB and we get why he has not been a long term manager so far.

Purchasing Gündogan however would at least show he has some sensibility for the long term needs of our midfield. This would still not dispel the notion that he is a cheque book manager though at a well-endowed club like Chelsea I'd much rather have a strategic cheque book manager who buys the right players than a short-sighted egomaniac who sell the wrong ones.

[didierforever 7,349]

I am not a fan of Cesc either. But if you want to dismiss him, do it for the right reasons. I agree that, mainly because he has limitted his play to passing, oppositions have grown wary of Cesc and can easily contain him now. But IMO he is doing better in big games than he did at Arsenal. Remember ManU and Arsenal at home? Two game-winning contributions. No imposing performances but a decisive impact on the game which is exactly what he has delivered in his better games against smaller teams. But the problem is he is - just as Mata who he replaced - a specialist. All Fabregas has is his vision and his passing. He is a below average athlete, not only for a footballer but in general for a man of his age + his technique is not really great. His strategic ability, reading of the game and defending is average at best as well. He has a decent touch but can neither shoot nor dribble. Hence IMO the Gündogan comparisons are spot on. Gündogan is a midfield allrounder and thus would provide a far better long-term solution for our midfield.

The thing is, Jose knew what Fabregas brings to the table and what not. He knew a good first half of the season fuelled by the individual brilliance and suprise effect of Costa+Fabregas would deliver the league title. But their failings of this season add to the concerns that JOse cannot tactically reshape a team to be a threat for more than 3 years: he obviously has strategic deficiencies. He should have known that Fabregas will easily get found out when out of form But still he had no plan B. Add to that the possibly untimely discharges of Mata, Lukaku and KDB and we get why he has not been a long term manager so far.

Purchasing Gündogan however would at least show he has some sensibility for the long term needs of our midfield. This would still not dispel the notion that he is a cheque book manager though at a well-endowed club like Chelsea I'd much rather have a strategic cheque book manager who buys the right players than a short-sighted egomaniac who sell the wrong ones.

cesc is known for his game winning contribution. he is a player who can produce a moment of magic. hence, my point that a video compilation of cesc is probably the worst way to judge him. i remember a game where he was absolute crap but gave a beautiful ball to pedro which he could not score from. i think it was newcastle. thats how his normal performances are.

as for big games, in a league where city, united, arsenal, pool, spurs are big teams, matches against soton, swansea and everton can be categorized as "big games", and then there are CL games, you can still literally count the number of positive things cesc has done in ALL of those matches on your hands.

totally agree with the rest of your post though.

[LondonsFinest 692]

Telegraph are reporting we would want Gundogan in a swap deal involving Ramires going the other way. Dream deal if true. 

Telegraph are a bit more reliable, but I personally can't see it.

[Chelsea4 1,521]

Chelsea want Ilkay Gundogan in exchange for Ramires. (Telegraph)

[Despiadado.Maleante 1,046]

To bad Telegraph has become as unreliable as Dailymail.

[LondonsFinest 692]

Deal makes perfect sense. He is in his prime, an elite CM, wants to leave and Ramires is, reportedly, unsettled. No other top club, bar us and Liverpool need a CM so badly. He could be amazing in a 4-3-3 or even a 4-2-3-1 with Cesc at 10. It just strikes me on the head, how much good this deal could do us. For that reason alone, it won't happen.

[Blue_Fox_ 2,086]

i'll believe it when it happens. So yeah...it's bullshit.

[Chelsea4 1,521]

Borussia Dortmund have enquired about the contractual agreement of Ramires.(via @globoesportecom)

A change in the winter for Ramires seems excluded. Should Gündogan leave in the summer, possibility of move for Ramires strong.(Sport1)

[El P. 1,354]

Please let it be true, PLEASE!

[manpe 10,861]

Lol, judging by what I have read about Gündogan, I think their fans are as excited as we are over this bit of news   The big question mark is his salary though, heard he's a greedy bastard and that's why Dortmund want to get rid.

[El P. 1,354]

This guy is also really cheap. He is 30 millions euros reign.

[Chelsea4 1,521]

Chelsea will now go all out for BVB midfielder Gundogan, who's current deal expires in June 2017. (Eurosport)

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

Watched Gladbach vs Dortmund the other day. Gundogan ran the show from deep - hit the upright with a superb shot in the 1st half, then assisted Reus for Dortmund's first, set up the counter for the 2nd goal and then scored the 3rd one.

He might be a greedy motherfucker, but he is worth every penny as long he stays fit. For me he is Xavi's heir, best midfielder with the ball at his feet in European football IMHO.

[Essien19 1,415]

1 hour ago, Chelsea4 said:

Chelsea will now go all out for BVB midfielder Gundogan, who's current deal expires in June 2017. (Eurosport)

Emenalo masterclass, hope he can pull this one of.
I'm absolutely buzzing...

[DYC. 7,542]

7 minutes ago, petre.ispirescu said:

Watched Gladbach vs Dortmund the other day. Gundogan ran the show from deep - hit the upright with a superb shot in the 1st half, then assisted Reus for Dortmund's first, set up the counter for the 2nd goal and then scored the 3rd one.

He might be a greedy motherfucker, but he is worth every penny as long he stays fit. For me he is Xavi's heir, best midfielder with the ball at his feet in European football IMHO.

He was brilliant, wasn't he? He's been one of the star men this season along with Mkhi and Aubame. Such an intelligent player.

A move to Chelsea doesn't make sense. If Barca don't want him anymore, I can see him joining Juve. Pogba-Marchisio-Gundo is an amazing midfield. But then again, you never know.

I'd love it if he stayed at Dortmund.

[Alan Partridge 1,124]

We don't need to waste money on lavezzi we need this guy in our midfield especially if Ramires does leave. 

Matic has been gash 

mikel is mikel 

cesc is better playing further up the pitch and oscar is often shit. 

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

3 hours ago, DYC. said:

He was brilliant, wasn't he? He's been one of the star men this season along with Mkhi and Aubame. Such an intelligent player.

A move to Chelsea doesn't make sense. If Barca don't want him anymore, I can see him joining Juve. Pogba-Marchisio-Gundo is an amazing midfield. But then again, you never know.

I'd love it if he stayed at Dortmund.

Does make a lot of sense. He wants money and we can pay higher wages than Juve and Barca. Also if you are a Chelsea fan why do you want him to stay at bvb when our midfield cries for a player of his quality?

[DYC. 7,542]

30 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

Does make a lot of sense. He wants money and we can pay higher wages than Juve and Barca. Also if you are a Chelsea fan why do you want him to stay at bvb when our midfield cries for a player of his quality?

I don't believe in a move to Chelsea so I hope he stays at Dortmund rather than leave the club. They're a club I sympathise with.

Btw, a midfield with both Cesc and Gundogan would never work imo. Too slow, weak and lacks legs.