Ilkay Gundogan

[DYC. 7,542]

I judged by last Fabregas season, when he had those crazy assists. I think Fabregas has more key passes (as WhoScored status shows), that's why I gave him advantage.

With more skillful I can agree. So I guess Gundo is even more better.

True. Fabregas is far more incisive with his passing, takes a lot of risks. He is better when it comes to delivering the final pass, forgot to mention that. They're different types of players.

[El P. 1,354]

True. Fabregas is far more incisive with his passing, takes a lot of risks. He is better when it comes to delivering the final pass, forgot to mention that. They're different types of players.

Agree, they are different. But still want to compare them since they play on same position.

[stroey 2,525]

Ilkay Gundogan has yet to decide where his future lies with just 18 months remaining on his current deal. (Evening Standard) #BVB

[Mechromancer 262]

Real is my bet.

[El P. 1,354]

Real is my bet.

Modrić, Kroos, Isco, Kovačić, James...

Maybe, but only if they sell Modrić or Isco. Modrić because he is not so young, Isco because he might ask for more regular playing time somewhere else.

There are a lot great CMF-s these days. Barca/Real/City can't get them all. Gundogan, Pogba, Koke,...

[didierforever 7,349]

Would be ideal for partnership with Matić. Only 25. Would give 40 millions for him.

Let's compare him with Fabregas:

Passing Cesc > Gundo

Speed Cesc << Gundo

Body strength Cesc << Gundo

Tech/Skill on the ball Cesc ~ Gundo

Stamina Cesc < Gundo

Shot Cesc < Gundo

Overall defense ability Cesc << Gundo

Age Cesc << Gundo

Corners Cesc > Gundo

From what I saw. Agree?

cesc and gundo should not even be a comparision. literally no area where cesc beats him.

[stroey 2,525]

İlkay Gündoğan has admitted his Dortmund future is uncertain and that Liverpool have a 'good team and great coach'. (Source: Daily Mail)

[supporter 3,088]

Gundogan should be our priority signing for the January market. He is the only creative midfielder available in the market right now and with Gundogan we would get rebuild our midfield.

I wish that we begin to move faster and have a contact with Gundogan to get his move and beat Liverpool.

Gundogan must be a priority.

[stroey 2,525]

cesc and gundo should not even be a comparision. literally no area where cesc beats him.

DD my friend I know you dislike Cesc and I agree he is a liability against good pressing teams but we shouldn't forget what he is capable of.

He had over 20 assists for us last season and his general vision is a big big joy to watch when he's in form, just like Hazard's dribbles.

I'd say vision and the final pass: Cesc>Gundogan

Look at this video:

pfff look at that pass at 01:50, I miss that Cesc, his passing sometimes was so sick, he was sublime.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Gundogan should be our priority signing for the January market. He is the only creative midfielder available in the market right now and with Gundogan we would get rebuild our midfield.

I wish that we begin to move faster and have a contact with Gundogan to get his move and beat Liverpool.

Gundogan must be a priority.

Exactly. Watching fabregas chasing people with his slow speed against tottenham was just sad.

We need mobility in midfield, people that can beat their marker one on one and still is technically sound in passing.

[didierforever 7,349]

DD my friend I know you dislike Cesc and I agree he is a liability against good pressing teams but we shouldn't forget what he is capable of.

He had over 20 assists for us last season and his general vision is a big big joy to watch when he's in form, just like Hazard's dribbles.

I'd say vision and the final pass: Cesc>Gundogan

Look at this video: https://youtu.be/YXKA5rTAjGE

pfff look at that pass at 01:50, I miss that Cesc, his passing sometimes was so sick, he was sublime.

sorry but one pass per a match proves nothing. there was a video compilation of mikel that would make him look like messi.

what this video does not show that for every 1 sublime pass there are 5 times where he tries this pass and loses the ball or just simply loses the ball under any pressure at all.

his "vision" is only good when he gets ample time and space.

in his early days at chelsea, teams were not sure of how to play against him. they defended with a lower block concentrating more on eden and costa which gave cesc the time and space to run the show. remember when we all wondered why his performances in "big games" was so poor. well, this was because big teams pressed and never gave him an oppurtunity to settle on the ball. now that all teams have started doing this, he has been totally and fully exposed.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

DD my friend I know you dislike Cesc and I agree he is a liability against good pressing teams but we shouldn't forget what he is capable of.

He had over 20 assists for us last season and his general vision is a big big joy to watch when he's in form, just like Hazard's dribbles.

I'd say vision and the final pass: Cesc>Gundogan

Look at this video: https://youtu.be/YXKA5rTAjGE

pfff look at that pass at 01:50, I miss that Cesc, his passing sometimes was so sick, he was sublime.

He can be better on paper and statistics but he will never perform on pitch as good against better teams than Gundogan. Even inform Cesc last season was piss poor against top opponents.

Sure assists are great thing, and that can save you if you are #10 or winger. But for CM and to play under manager like Mou, you need alot more. And Cesc simply isnt that.

If we miss Gundogan to fucking liverpool or juve, and stick with Cesc just because Mou is his friend, I will be dissapointed.

If Barca goes with bid we have no chance, but if anyone else bids for him, we should counter offer as much as it takes to get him.

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

sorry but one pass per a match proves nothing. there was a video compilation of mikel that would make him look like messi.

what this video does not show that for every 1 sublime pass there are 5 times where he tries this pass and loses the ball or just simply loses the ball under any pressure at all.

his "vision" is only good when he gets ample time and space.

in his early days at chelsea, teams were not sure of how to play against him. they defended with a lower block concentrating more on eden and costa which gave cesc the time and space to run the show. remember when we all wondered why his performances in "big games" was so poor. well, this was because big teams pressed and never gave him an oppurtunity to settle on the ball. now that all teams have started doing this, he has been totally and fully exposed

I am not a fan of Cesc either. But if you want to dismiss him, do it for the right reasons. I agree that, mainly because he has limitted his play to passing, oppositions have grown wary of Cesc and can easily contain him now. But IMO he is doing better in big games than he did at Arsenal. Remember ManU and Arsenal at home? Two game-winning contributions. No imposing performances but a decisive impact on the game which is exactly what he has delivered in his better games against smaller teams. But the problem is he is - just as Mata who he replaced - a specialist. All Fabregas has is his vision and his passing. He is a below average athlete, not only for a footballer but in general for a man of his age + his technique is not really great. His strategic ability, reading of the game and defending is average at best as well. He has a decent touch but can neither shoot nor dribble. Hence IMO the Gündogan comparisons are spot on. Gündogan is a midfield allrounder and thus would provide a far better long-term solution for our midfield.

The thing is, Jose knew what Fabregas brings to the table and what not. He knew a good first half of the season fuelled by the individual brilliance and suprise effect of Costa+Fabregas would deliver the league title. But their failings of this season add to the concerns that JOse cannot tactically reshape a team to be a threat for more than 3 years: he obviously has strategic deficiencies. He should have known that Fabregas will easily get found out when out of form But still he had no plan B. Add to that the possibly untimely discharges of Mata, Lukaku and KDB and we get why he has not been a long term manager so far.

Purchasing Gündogan however would at least show he has some sensibility for the long term needs of our midfield. This would still not dispel the notion that he is a cheque book manager though at a well-endowed club like Chelsea I'd much rather have a strategic cheque book manager who buys the right players than a short-sighted egomaniac who sell the wrong ones.

[didierforever 7,349]

I am not a fan of Cesc either. But if you want to dismiss him, do it for the right reasons. I agree that, mainly because he has limitted his play to passing, oppositions have grown wary of Cesc and can easily contain him now. But IMO he is doing better in big games than he did at Arsenal. Remember ManU and Arsenal at home? Two game-winning contributions. No imposing performances but a decisive impact on the game which is exactly what he has delivered in his better games against smaller teams. But the problem is he is - just as Mata who he replaced - a specialist. All Fabregas has is his vision and his passing. He is a below average athlete, not only for a footballer but in general for a man of his age + his technique is not really great. His strategic ability, reading of the game and defending is average at best as well. He has a decent touch but can neither shoot nor dribble. Hence IMO the Gündogan comparisons are spot on. Gündogan is a midfield allrounder and thus would provide a far better long-term solution for our midfield.

The thing is, Jose knew what Fabregas brings to the table and what not. He knew a good first half of the season fuelled by the individual brilliance and suprise effect of Costa+Fabregas would deliver the league title. But their failings of this season add to the concerns that JOse cannot tactically reshape a team to be a threat for more than 3 years: he obviously has strategic deficiencies. He should have known that Fabregas will easily get found out when out of form But still he had no plan B. Add to that the possibly untimely discharges of Mata, Lukaku and KDB and we get why he has not been a long term manager so far.

Purchasing Gündogan however would at least show he has some sensibility for the long term needs of our midfield. This would still not dispel the notion that he is a cheque book manager though at a well-endowed club like Chelsea I'd much rather have a strategic cheque book manager who buys the right players than a short-sighted egomaniac who sell the wrong ones.

cesc is known for his game winning contribution. he is a player who can produce a moment of magic. hence, my point that a video compilation of cesc is probably the worst way to judge him. i remember a game where he was absolute crap but gave a beautiful ball to pedro which he could not score from. i think it was newcastle. thats how his normal performances are.

as for big games, in a league where city, united, arsenal, pool, spurs are big teams, matches against soton, swansea and everton can be categorized as "big games", and then there are CL games, you can still literally count the number of positive things cesc has done in ALL of those matches on your hands.

totally agree with the rest of your post though.

[LondonsFinest 692]

Telegraph are reporting we would want Gundogan in a swap deal involving Ramires going the other way. Dream deal if true. 

Telegraph are a bit more reliable, but I personally can't see it.