Why Are We Playing 4-2-3-1?

[Kojo 4,676]

So Mikel since is average... does that mean Jose Mourinho (Chelsea's greatest ever manager), Phil Scolari (WC winning manager), Carlo Ancelotti (CL winning manager), AVB (retard), Robbie Di Matteo (CL winning manager) and Rafa Benitez (CL winning manager) are all utter idiots who don't understand football at all?

Comparing the Bison to Tiote is ridiculous. Essien could actually contribute going forward, he was an absolute beast physically and technically he was good, a complete midfield player, where as Tiote is good at running around and throwing himself into needless tackles half the time.

There aren't many DMs that I can think of that are better than Mikel either tbh. So yeah hes one of the best in the world imo.

Then you sir may aswell be AVB, because you are just like you described him.

Lets face it, you and all the others are lying to yourselves, when Mikel makes a mistake, this forum doesn't even mention it anymore lmao, that's how defensive people have gotten about Mikel. It's pathetic how much he's defended, and what for?, he's made more mistakes for the club than he's benefited us, put it this way Mikel would never make it in any other top teams squad nevermind starting 11.

To say he's one of the best DM's in the world is a complete mockery to every person playing football, and Tiote is aggressive, but he's one of the best damn midfielders in the premier league, especially last season. Even in big games he was always winning the ball back for Newcastle, very good DM and I'm one of the biggeset Essien fans on here but i'll tell you this Tiote was on his level or actually even better last seaso when it came to defensively, I've never seen many people capable of running a game, and he was doing it consistently. The reason why I'm saying he did and was, is mainly due to the fact he's been injured for most of this season unfortunately, so i have my doubts if he is going to get back onto that level.

Mikel is just useless, and has never been on Tiote's level, Mikel is the player who doesn't track back, he's the player who lets his man go all the time, he's the player who was supposed to be our reliable physical presence and multi-range passer, YET we still need those type of players now, so please explain to me how Mikel is good enough?, because he gives us nothing.

[Leif 6,006]

AVB (retard)

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

To say Tiote was anywhere near Essien before his injuries is a mockery to the Bison.

[communicate 2,703]

Of course it was, Lampard-Ramires was asking for trouble, though i must admit i did think Lampard would do a much better job coming back and returning. Of course i was wrong about him, I think two new players is needed for DM positions.

I have been saying this so many times Lampard-Ramires does not work because both of them are better playing higher, It should be either mikel/romeu - ramires/lampard

We definitely need a midfielder, not sure about tiote though I much prefer getting a more creative central midfielder

[manpe 10,861]

I was gonna do the exact same thing, but as you already did it, I'll just quote you.

[communicate 2,703]

I'm just not sure why we are continuing to play this formation when it is clear we do not have the players for it.

I remember when AVB was absolutely determined to play 4-3-3, even though we did not have the players for it. He was trying to fit our players into his system, instead of fitting a system around the players we had. His stubbornness, refusal to play the old guard and persistence on playing Mata on the LW saw him lose his job. As soon as RDM came in, he changed it to 4-2-3-1 to basically pack the midfield to make up for the lack of quality we had there.

I'm unsure as to why we continued to play it in this campaign with the players we had and now it seems like a little bit of history repeating; trying to fit players into a system that does not suit them. The main thing for me is the stupid pivot. Fact is, we have no quality defensive-midfielders (Mikel fanboys can rant and rave all they like, I've always believed that there are other players that can do what Mikel does, except they can run and/or pass - see Tiote/Cabaye. Also, Romeu/Josh/Cahlobah are not ready yet). Couple this with no decent striker, which cannot be helped by changing formation I'll admit, makes the 4-2-3-1 pointless. Seriously, how can this formation be used when the pivot and the striker cannot fulfill their duties? It leads to a disconnect and lack of organisation between defense and midfield, along with a blunt attack.

Now i'll admit I'm not a tactical expert, but for me, I'd like to see something along the lines of a 4-3-2-1, 4-1-2-1-2 (January permitting another striker/s) or 4-3-3. Personally, I'd prefer to see a 4-3-2-1 like this:

Cech

Azip - JT - Luiz - Cole

Mikel

Oscar Ramires

Hazard - Mata

Torres

Ideally I'd have a better defensive-mid in there instead of Mikel. Ramires is best as a CM, no one can fault his work-rate there, but asking him to sit back in as a DM is shackling his strengths and it's is not working for him there at all. Oscar has a great work rate too. However, Mata & Hazard don't really, so they wouldn't have as much responsibility with 3 behind them instead of the 2. They can also be pushed out wide if we want a 4-3-3, which also accommodates Moses/Marin. And, of course, I'd have anyone except Torres leading the attack.

But mainly for me, having one DM, two CMs and two AM/Wingers also allows us to fully rotate and utilize all of our squad, giving multiple combinations instead of relying on just DMs and AMs:

DM = Mikel/Romeu/Josh/Cahlobah

CM = Ramires/Oscar/Josh/KDB/Cahlobah/Lamps (if he's still here)

AM = Mata/Hazard/Oscar/KDB/Moses/Marin

What do you guys think? Am I talking nonsense? What formation would you like to see?

(Sorry for the rant )

Not going to protect AVB here, but we have been playing 4-2-3-1 under AVB for a couple months before he was fired. I think he said he did that because we kept conceding goal from the left because mata was just awful defensively so mata was moved to the center. The difference between 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 is very little. It bore down on your personell, if you play 2 cm you will play 4-3-3 but if you play 1 cm and 1 am you will play 4-2-3-1

[Kojo 4,676]

To say Tiote was anywhere near Essien before his injuries is a mockery to the Bison.

This is coming from the nutjob who said Mikel is the best DM in the world.

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

This is coming from the nutjob who said Mikel is the best DM in the world.

Said hes one of the best, not the best. Might want to get your quotes right mate.

Also your the one who insulted the Bison saying Tiote played better than him last year....

[Rmpr 8,977]

The problem is not the formation, since real life is not like FIFA and in a good team with decent tactics and movements the players actually swap positions and changes formation depending on the situation. There is no such thing as a static 433, 4231, 41212, 352, etc. It changes with possession, scoreboard and mentality. Any formation is useful and successful if they are performed by the right players and manager. My personal favorite is 4-3-3, but it wont make us any better, we need players with stong characters and a manager to make it thrive. Any formation we try we this squad will leave a flaw somewhere.

That leaves us to the real problem: players, board, owner and staff.

Players: What we have is not a team, it is a bunch of players thrown to play together. They dont complement each other in any possible way (experience, style, leadership, etc). We lack quality in some positions, leardship in others and commitment where its left. Apart from Cech (who isnt even playing well), every position need or will need some improvement. We can try to play 4-1-2-1-2, but it will just move our problems to another area of the pitch. There is no way out, the only thing we can do now is accept we have done some horrible moves and they will need to be repaired. We will lose a lot of money, but there isnt other way. RM was exactly like us, buying load of players that would never fit together and when Mourinho came, he basically bought a whole new team. I dont really think we are that bad, but we are far from good.

Board: There is no fucking hierarchy and it will kill us if nothing is done about it. Of course there is also incompetence, but the lack of a decent division of power is much worse. It is Roman Abramovich and everyone else trying to suck his cock. We dont have executives with clear roles and magnitude of power. No one reports to anyone and everyone reports to Roman. This makes comunication non existing, useless issues are taken care twice and important manners are left aside. This is insane, a high school bowling team has a better hierarchy than a giant european club. Once this is done, we can start evaluating who is capable and who needs to be replaced.

Owner: I am immensily happy with you. BUT, decide whether we are a buying team or a developer. If we are going to buy the best players, there is no need to spend loads of money in a unnecessary expensive academy and vice-versa. Also, stop being friend with the players...

Staff: Get a fucking manager, stick with him and make him in charge, trust the fucking guy for once. Let him have a say in the transfers and build up of the squad. Any good manager (with money) is able to find the players that suit his desired formation and style of play. He needs no absurd pressure and he cant be a cunt who will get booed by the fans. Ultimately, hire someone in the summer (Jose hopefully) and let him work hard and well.

So, analyse the problems and fix it, for fuck sake, stop using bandaids for CFC!

[AndersonBLUE 819]

Yeah I'm beginning to hate the formation too. I would much prefer the christmas tree or the 4-3-3.

Thing is he wont change it halfway through the season.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Because no matter what formation we put out, we have problems. 4-3-3 means that Mata and Hazard become de-emphasized by playing the wings. The narrow 4-3-3 sort that is suggested in the first post means that we have 4 players in the attack in middle of the pitch and our width has to come from our fullbacks which will mean that we would get slaughtered on the wings as they have no protection. People want to believe that changing a formation or having one player instead of another in the starting XI will magically save our season. It's the definition of theoretical management whereby your choices which will never be implemented will always result in us winning while the managers' choices when we lose are always the problem. The reality is that we simply are not good enough or deep enough to win this year and little tweaks of the lineup won't magically fix that..

[Blue Gino 377]

Great question. It's because no matter the type of player the manager has, it's the formation he is forced to play. Look at the reserves and academy. 4-2-3-1 is the formation Chelsea as a club want and no matter the short term manager the club hires that's what he has to put out there. Mereiles sold? Essien loaned out? The club don't give a sh*t, just do it! Look at Ramires, he is fast, oh wow what an engine on the lad. Can't pass to save his life and he plays in the pivot where he's supposed to link play and he has to practically run up to Hazard to give him the damn ball. Nice player, wrong formation position. Better suited to a 4-3-3. Mikel, well he's slow, doesn't make a lot of tackles or interceptions, just asked not to turn it over, but when you are this thin on defensive midfielders, he looks world class. Now to the midfield three, all three are number 10's pretty much. So they pass amongst each other "you pass it to Torres" "no YOU pass it to Torres" and so Torres is running around like a chicken with his head cut off "SOMEONE just pass it to me, oh no too late, there's three defenders on me but oh you're passing me the ball anyways and oh look it's too late to shoot or I've been dispossessed. Then Torres, c'mon Roman admit you wasted money but hey you spent that kind of dough on PAINTINGS and just move on and get another striker in January because Sturridge is not liked by you and you refuse to play him as the starter because you're afraid of the egg on your face after the Sheva fail if Torres is on the bench pouting. Does anyone honestly think this club can win any of the remaining competitions out there? I don't. No cohesion, no certainty on management. Wrong players for a formation that doesn't suit them.

[coolhead23 1,147]

I'm just not sure why we are continuing to play this formation when it is clear we do not have the players for it.

I remember when AVB was absolutely determined to play 4-3-3, even though we did not have the players for it. He was trying to fit our players into his system, instead of fitting a system around the players we had. His stubbornness, refusal to play the old guard and persistence on playing Mata on the LW saw him lose his job. As soon as RDM came in, he changed it to 4-2-3-1 to basically pack the midfield to make up for the lack of quality we had there.

I'm unsure as to why we continued to play it in this campaign with the players we had and now it seems like a little bit of history repeating; trying to fit players into a system that does not suit them. The main thing for me is the stupid pivot. Fact is, we have no quality defensive-midfielders (Mikel fanboys can rant and rave all they like, I've always believed that there are other players that can do what Mikel does, except they can run and/or pass - see Tiote/Cabaye. Also, Romeu/Josh/Cahlobah are not ready yet). Couple this with no decent striker, which cannot be helped by changing formation I'll admit, makes the 4-2-3-1 pointless. Seriously, how can this formation be used when the pivot and the striker cannot fulfill their duties? It leads to a disconnect and lack of organisation between defense and midfield, along with a blunt attack.

Now i'll admit I'm not a tactical expert, but for me, I'd like to see something along the lines of a 4-3-2-1, 4-1-2-1-2 (January permitting another striker/s) or 4-3-3. Personally, I'd prefer to see a 4-3-2-1 like this:

Cech

Azip - JT - Luiz - Cole

Mikel

Oscar Ramires

Hazard - Mata

Torres

Ideally I'd have a better defensive-mid in there instead of Mikel. Ramires is best as a CM, no one can fault his work-rate there, but asking him to sit back in as a DM is shackling his strengths and it's is not working for him there at all. Oscar has a great work rate too. However, Mata & Hazard don't really, so they wouldn't have as much responsibility with 3 behind them instead of the 2. They can also be pushed out wide if we want a 4-3-3, which also accommodates Moses/Marin. And, of course, I'd have anyone except Torres leading the attack.

But mainly for me, having one DM, two CMs and two AM/Wingers also allows us to fully rotate and utilize all of our squad, giving multiple combinations instead of relying on just DMs and AMs:

DM = Mikel/Romeu/Josh/Cahlobah

CM = Ramires/Oscar/Josh/KDB/Cahlobah/Lamps (if he's still here)

AM = Mata/Hazard/Oscar/KDB/Moses/Marin

What do you guys think? Am I talking nonsense? What formation would you like to see?

(Sorry for the rant )

We are playing 4-2-3-1 because we bought too many midfielders and missed out strikers in the transfer windows and also because while thinking we are used to a single dimensional plan ... make it works again and again, maybe it mite work some day ...

[Jase 43,479]

Because no matter what formation we put out, we have problems. 4-3-3 means that Mata and Hazard become de-emphasized by playing the wings. The narrow 4-3-3 sort that is suggested in the first post means that we have 4 players in the attack in middle of the pitch and our width has to come from our fullbacks which will mean that we would get slaughtered on the wings as they have no protection. People want to believe that changing a formation or having one player instead of another in the starting XI will magically save our season. It's the definition of theoretical management whereby your choices which will never be implemented will always result in us winning while the managers' choices when we lose are always the problem. The reality is that we simply are not good enough or deep enough to win this year and little tweaks of the lineup won't magically fix that..

And besides, players make the formation work, not the other way around. We have the players to play the 4-2-3-1 now. It's just a matter of picking the right ones and putting the right application onto the pitch.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Board: There is no fucking hierarchy and it will kill us if nothing is done about it. Of course there is also incompetence, but the lack of a decent division of power is much worse. It is Roman Abramovich and everyone else trying to suck his cock. We dont have executives with clear roles and magnitude of power. No one reports to anyone and everyone reports to Roman. This makes comunication non existing, useless issues are taken care twice and important manners are left aside. This is insane, a high school bowling team has a better hierarchy than a giant european club. Once this is done, we can start evaluating who is capable and who needs to be replaced.

I don't know what your sources are, but this is complete bollocks. People have clearly defined roles and there is a hierarchical structure in place in terms of the playing, administrative and commercial aspects of the club. You're providing analysis that implies you have a fucking clue about how the club is run - you don't. I actually know people who work at the club and the things you're saying are fucking laughable.

As for the manager situation, you're not saying anything that people at the club don't already know. They want to get a guy they can stick with long-term but NONE of the options has panned out.

Look at the AVB situation. He was given as much support as anyone could ask for, but HE lost the players. Not just the senior ones like Spurs cunts like to suggest, but literally everyone from the first team to the reserves to the youth team. Even the staff came to despise him because he's just not a good people person.

After he went, Roman had eyes for one person only - Guardiola. People think I've got some man crush on him, and as a coach i do like him. But it's what he represents to Roman that I think is most important. He's the only guy he'll give his unconditional support to. He's the only guy who could suffer through some bad results whilst implementing a new style that would get time. It's why he's so important to us. So much rests on his appointment that it is un-fucking-true.

People don't seem to realise how important the next few years is to Chelsea Football Club. People who just want to sack Rafa without having a plan C really don't seem to have the best interests for this club at heart. I'm of the belief he can get us a top-four finish and that's all he needs to do. When he was first appointed I said I didn't want his name in our record books more than it needed to and that appears to be what will happen. But we need top four and whilst he's still the guy leading us, he'll get my support.

As for 4231, part of it is down to the way Emenalo sees football and it's partly down to it being the formation de jour. It offers defensive solidiity whilst providing more attacking options if done right, whilst placing a premium on possession which minimises fatigue and maximising opposition exertion.