Oscar

[LAM09 6,550]

Firmino and Coutinho have done well for their respective teams in that time period but I fully expect to be reminded that Menenez and Scolari didn't fancy them which ofcourse automatically makes them rubbish and inferior to Oscar as per the typical football fan's logic.

I was a huge fan of Firmino's last season, but I was very surprised he was overlooked the majority of the time. The team you play for makes a big difference as is the case nowadays. I personally don't agree with that thinking, but that's football.

[LAM09 6,550]

I misread your post.I actually kind of agree with you

[emoji106]

[lionsden 4,689]

Firmino, Coutinho, and Lucas Moura.

Everything always black and white on this forum. If you are not skilled as Messi, Hazard, Neymar, etc then you are not skilled.

Cant believe it, is it funny for someone to suggest Oscar is talented with ability and skill?

WTF is he doing starting on a regular basis for Brazil and Chelsea? Not sure if trolling or just plain stupid.

No but if a player's touch, passing and ability to retain posession under pressure is as consitently poor as oscar's then such a player can never be considered technical/skilled.

And playing consistently for chelsea cant be used as an indication that the player is quality or anything special. See torres, cahill,mikel as just a few example of that.

Also this is by far the worst generation of brazilian football, their talent productin has gone down considerably and no one can deny that oscar would not even make the bench of the teams of the past, so his inclusion is more a case of lack of genuine quality and options.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

I'm bored. what to do, what to do... Oh I know! I haven't been in the Mourinho thread or the Oscar thread in about an hour, might as well go back there and see if I can bait anyone by making up another ridiculous claim about both of them. Ya that sounds right! I'll go there and pretend I'm a Chelsea supporter and rile up those who actually are. Its the only way I can find any joy in Scunthorpe, so boring over here.

[Joker10 946]

Lucas Moura is a winger, Coutinho has just started to perform this season (possibly the reason behind him getting called up), and Firmino isn't performing to the same standards as last season (22 in 37 last season compared to 9 in 28 this campaign). If you read what I said properly, you would see I clearly stated players performing at the same level for 2-3 years, but none of the players who mentioned have been.

Finally, neither. Oscar's ability isn't in question, but his consistency is. Less of this trolling nonsense, as what I'm saying is right. Would Oscar get anywhere near the 2002/2006 squad?

I rest my case!

Lucas Moura a winger? He is as much of a winger as Hazard is, neither player can be regarded as such. Lucas Moura can play anywhere on the left, right, and the hole.

Firmino imo is playing as good as last season, he is playing deeper then last season that is why his stats are down. Last season he played like SS, he is a more rounded CAM.

Oscar didn't win the trust of the Brazilian coach based on his reputation or anything, he won it through his play.

2002/2006 squad or starting 11? squad yes, i remember players like Ricardinho on the team. Oscar is def better then him.

Starting 11? def not, Kaka and dinho were the best in the world in that position.

btw second part was attempted at other posters. Look i agree Oscar consistency is an issue, we need another attacking midfielder. More importantly a quality one, not just another one.

No but if a player's touch, passing and ability to retain posession under pressure is as consitently poor as oscar's then such a player can never be considered technical/skilled.

And playing consistently for chelsea cant be used as an indication that the player is quality or anything special. See torres, cahill,mikel as just a few example of that.

Also this is by far the worst generation of brazilian football, their talent productin has gone down considerably and no one can deny that oscar would not even make the bench of the teams of the past, so his inclusion is more a case of lack of genuine quality and options.

I have to ask do you see things in the middle, seems like everything black and white to you?

No Oscar touch,passing, and ability is not consistently poor. I been watching Oscar since his days at Inter, i have seen enough of him to know that he can play under pressure. I don't think Oscar has elite touch, he is capable of great first touch but also some WTFs.

I do not think Oscar is an elite technical player and he is not technically limited either though.

Btw when did playing under pressure became the ultimate sign of techniclal ability? Pirlo is not great under pressure, doesn't mean he is tecnically limited? I don't believe Cesc is brillant either under pressure? Mata wasen't either.

[didierforever 7,349]

like i said before, another torres and mikelish player. the sooner he leaves, the better. cash out on him when people can still say things like "he has skills and is talented" or that "he plays as a no.10 from brazil" cos in another season or 2, people will have to eat their words again, just like people who said 3 seasons ago that oscar was a potential WORLD CLASS player ( :lol: )

[robsblubot 3,225]

like i said before, another torres and mikelish player. the sooner he leaves, the better. cash out on him when people can still say things like "he has skills and is talented" or that "he plays as a no.10 from brazil" cos in another season or 2, people will have to eat their words again, just like people who said 3 seasons ago that oscar was a potential WORLD CLASS player ( :lol: )

David luiz sends his regards.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

There is something fundamentally wrong with Brazilian football in regards to talent coming through. They just aren't producing the same talents as before. Maybe it's a consequence of too much exportation of talent abroad that has caused the standard of football to deteriorate which adversely affects the quality of youth coming through. I think the Brazilian FA have to do something to deter European clubs from poaching any half decent young player. This is just my little hypothesis, but in my view, that's the major malaise facing Brazilian football, in terms of producing top talent.

The current crop of Brazilian talent is the worst I've ever seen. Even their star man, Neymar is the most overhyped player in the world, nothing compared to past greats, and you can tell standards have dropped. Don't even get me started on our Brazilians.

The crop from the Under 20 squad, apart from Malcolm (a winger who we are linked to) and maybe Gerson (a centre mid) , there just doesn't seem to be any special talent. And that's been the case with the last 2 or 3 Under 20 Brazilian teams in the last 5 years or so, some of which have even failed to qualify for the U20 World Championships or have been knocked out in early stages.

It's clear that Argentina are now the South American team producing the most talented young players. The likes of Angel Correa and Vietto and many others are ready to take place of Messi, Aguero, Di Maria and co. Brazil don't have any forward players in the Under 20 with the talent of a Vietto, let alone a beast like Correa.

I was watching the U17 South American Youth Championship (I know) yesterday; Brazil u17 vs Uruguay u17, and there seems to be some hope for Brazil, but not in the immediate future. But again, I feel something needs to be done. It's more than just a cyclical thing for Brazil to produce such mediocre talent for more than a decade now.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

When we signed Oscar, I just get the feeling we signed potential. Unlike Neymar for example, he never made any waves in the domestic league in Brazil. He was a talented prospect, who had a very good Under 20 world cup, (he even scored a hattrick in the final vs Portugal I think), and that's when his reputation became enhanced.

It's different from Hazard who was already a superstar in France. Two time player of the year, a league and cup double winner and the highest paid player, all at or before 21. He was already close to world-class back then. It will be different with a Pogba for example, who is himself already a superstar at 20/21 in Italy. If we are to sign young players for the first team in the future, it should be players of the highest calibre possible, if not, we're just producing stumbling blocks for our youth. It doesn't make sense to sign a 20/21/22 year old who is only marginally better than our youth. (I'm not suggesting that was the case with Oscar, but he was certainly no Hazard when we signed him).

[mikeholiday 209]

I was watching a few Chelsea highlights on youtube (as i always do). He's had some briliant games for us.

- Against Swansea away, scored the first and the fourth which was a cracker

- Against Newcastle at home, scored the first and provided a backheel assist to Costa for the second.

- Thought he was brilliant against Livpool second leg cap one cup

...You have a run of subpar games and some people are just quick to forget and think you've been useless all throughout...

[stroey 2,525]

I was watching a few Chelsea highlights on youtube (as i always do). He's had some briliant games for us.

- Against Swansea away, scored the first and the fourth which was a cracker

- Against Newcastle at home, scored the first and provided a backheel assist to Costa for the second.

- Thought he was brilliant against Livpool second leg cap one cup

...You have a run of subpar games and some people are just quick to forget and think you've been useless all throughout...

And that's why he is overrated by the media and other fans, they only watch highlights and check stats.

Newcastle-pathetic game but scored and assisted

Swansea-his only good game in 2015

Liverpool-average game, not decisive

Other games in 2015-joke

Hopefully he can shine in the copa this year (it is this year, no?) and leave for a decent fee.

[mikeholiday 209]

And that's why he is overrated by the media and other fans, they only watch highlights and check stats.

Newcastle-pathetic game but scored and assisted

Swansea-his only good game in 2015

Liverpool-average game, not decisive

Other games in 2015-joke

Hopefully he can shine in the copa this year (it is this year, no?) and leave for a decent fee.

I think he's still a guy who can be average most of the game, but can have that one moment of magic that can prove to be decisive.

I don't argue that his form has dipped (e.g. effort on pressing). I just feel that some of the slating the he's been getting is unfair.

[robsblubot 3,225]

There is something fundamentally wrong with Brazilian football in regards to talent coming through. They just aren't producing the same talents as before. Maybe it's a consequence of too much exportation of talent abroad that has caused the standard of football to deteriorate which adversely affects the quality of youth coming through. I think the Brazilian FA have to do something to deter European clubs from poaching any half decent young player. This is just my little hypothesis, but in my view, that's the major malaise facing Brazilian football, in terms of producing top talent.

The current crop of Brazilian talent is the worst I've ever seen. Even their star man, Neymar is the most overhyped player in the world, nothing compared to past greats, and you can tell standards have dropped. Don't even get me started on our Brazilians.

The crop from the Under 20 squad, apart from Malcolm (a winger who we are linked to) and maybe Gerson (a centre mid) , there just doesn't seem to be any special talent. And that's been the case with the last 2 or 3 Under 20 Brazilian teams in the last 5 years or so, some of which have even failed to qualify for the U20 World Championships or have been knocked out in early stages.

It's clear that Argentina are now the South American team producing the most talented young players. The likes of Angel Correa and Vietto and many others are ready to take place of Messi, Aguero, Di Maria and co. Brazil don't have any forward players in the Under 20 with the talent of a Vietto, let alone a beast like Correa.

I was watching the U17 South American Youth Championship (I know) yesterday; Brazil u17 vs Uruguay u17, and there seems to be some hope for Brazil, but not in the immediate future. But again, I feel something needs to be done. It's more than just a cyclical thing for Brazil to produce such mediocre talent for more than a decade now.

I've seen way way worse than this and multiple times at that.

Brazil has a few problems building a top team right now because they lack top players in certain key positions, like the freaking striker. Although the defenders are good they are both ball playing which is also not good. Cm is the real problem as Fernandinho and Gustavo are average.

Back to Oscar though you are wrong and time will prove you wrong. Doesn't matter how many times you and others come here and rant, because he will start and play and then start againg next season. He will become a better #8 as he matures. Right now he's lampard lite but hopefully in future he can become his own player.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

I've seen way way worse than this and multiple times at that.

Brazil has a few problems building a top team right now because they lack top players in certain key positions, like the freaking striker. Although the defenders are good they are both ball playing which is also not good. Cm is the real problem as Fernandinho and Gustavo are average.

Back to Oscar though you are wrong and time will prove you wrong. Doesn't matter how many times you and others come here and rant, because he will start and play and then start againg next season. He will become a better #8 as he matures. Right now he's lampard lite but hopefully in future he can become his own player.

Lampard at 23 was a better player than whatever Oscar has shown now. Besides, they are nothing alike; different players, different qualities, different positions, so the point its moot. Apart from a few wonder goals here and there, Oscar has shown nothing special.

The whole Brazilian NT team is average by their standards and so is the talent, like I've not seen before. Definitely not in the 90's and Brazil had great teams and great players in the 80's, arguably even more so than the 90's, and the list of greats in the 70's, is endless. So I don't know what time period you're talking about there when you say you've seen "way worse".

Saying their defenders are good is ridiculous especially after they got annihilated 7-1 at the World Cup. Miranda, Danilo and Luis are all good defenders for their clubs, but it remains to be seen how they play in the NT. BESIDES, that wasn't my main point. I was pointing out the lack of decent talent Brazil have been struggling to produce for a while now, something you didn't bother responding to in any meaningful fashion. I cited examples from their youth teams, you did not. I don't even know why I respond to stuff like this, but whatever.

[didierforever 7,349]

David luiz sends his regards.

Who? The average mistake prone multi hyped up "defender"

[robsblubot 3,225]

Lampard at 23 was a better player than whatever Oscar has shown now. Besides, they are nothing alike; different players, different qualities, different positions, so the point its moot. Apart from a few wonder goals here and there, Oscar has shown nothing special.

The whole Brazilian NT team is average by their standards and so is the talent, like I've not seen before. Definitely not in the 90's and Brazil had great teams and great players in the 80's, arguably even more so than the 90's, and the list of greats in the 70's, is endless. So I don't know what time period you're talking about there when you say you've seen "way worse".

Saying their defenders are good is ridiculous especially after they got annihilated 7-1 at the World Cup. Miranda, Danilo and Luis are all good defenders for their clubs, but it remains to be seen how they play in the NT. BESIDES, that wasn't my main point. I was pointing out the lack of decent talent Brazil have been struggling to produce for a while now, something you didn't bother responding to in any meaningful fashion. I cited examples from their youth teams, you did not. I don't even know why I respond to stuff like this, but whatever.

You take away Lamps goals and he would have nothing left to his game - even mourinho mentioned it not long ago.

I am Brazilian and 43 so I think I know a bit more about the Brazilian side history than you do. This team is/was average but at least the players are young. I've seen average and old.

If you, like Didier, think Brazil made that fiasco because of the defenders then I have nothing else to discuss with you. It'd would be the same as blaming Terry and Cahill for every goal we concede... now that'd be a ridiculous thing, right?

[Jase 43,479]

You take away Lamps goals and he would have nothing left to his game - even mourinho mentioned it not long ago.

I am Brazilian and 43 so I think I know a bit more about the Brazilian side history than you do. This team is/was average but at least the players are young. I've seen average and old.

If you, like Didier, think Brazil made that fiasco because of the defenders then I have nothing else to discuss with you. It'd would be the same as blaming Terry and Cahill for every goal we concede... now that'd be a ridiculous thing, right?

Lampard's passing range and box-to-box ability are criminally underrated.

[robsblubot 3,225]

Lampard's passing range and box-to-box ability are criminally underrated.

Still take away the goals and lamps is just not that a special player any more.