Oscar

[Mr_President 404]

Am I alone thinking Oscar should be played as our #10, with Mata on the right?

I think Oscar is much better centrally, too.

Just wondering a 4-3-3 would suit him better with:

Hazard---Lukaku---Mata

Oscar---DM------KdB

A bit of a dilemma because Mata is our best player..so don't really want to shove him out wide.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

We should also then praise Benayoun for giving the No.10 shirt to Mata as he wanted it.

We should, most did

[Barbara 15,149]

This terminology mostly came from FIFA and FM and I must admit it gets annoying sometimes with all the new terms. You won't find unanimous agreement on the definition of these terms, but allow me to explain what I think they mean:

A DM is the type of guy who sits in front of the back four and provides cover and eases the ball from defense to attack. Alonso is DM, and a great one at that (Although he is not a ball-winning DM and can easily be played next to another DM, but let's not get into more needless terminology!). Ramires on the other hand does not have the discipline or defensive ability or even passing technique to be a DM. He is a box-to-box midfielder, meaning he has the pace and stamina to keep making runs from his own box to the oppositions. Some would even call him an "Engine" (I know, more stupid terminology! ) which is basically someone who covers all pitch with his running like Vidal, or what De Rossi was a couple of years ago.

Now the pivot, or originally the "Double Pivot" is not a type of player like DM or B2B, but rather a position in a formation. It is a term invented solely for the 4-2-3-1 formation which was made famous by Jose's treble winning Inter. The term refers to the two players in front of the defense. The meaning of pivot is axis or what the team revolves around and double obviously because there are two of them. Originally, it was meant that those two would have interchangeable roles in the team. When one joins the attack the other has to drop deep and cover. In practice, not a lot of teams managed to implement that, us included, and you ended up with one player always staying deep and the other always going forward making it much more static than intended (and making the job of the guy who stays deep much harder).

You can choose to play whatever type of central midfielder that you want in the pivot to different effects. You can play two DMs and solidify your defense but that would give you less men in the attack and invite pressure on your back four. You can play two box-to-box players like we did when we played Rami and Lamps (to terrible results, unfortunately) but that would leave you exposed at the back since both pivot players will leave their position...etc. Ideally, what I think we are attempting to do here at Chelsea is find a pairing of DM, along side a DLP.

A DLP, or Deep-Lying Playmaker (sometimes called Regista), is the type of central midfielder who likes to drop deep to receive the ball where he will have the time and space to pick up some long passes and have more control over the tempo of the game. This term was created to describe players like Pirlo and Xavi. But for DPL to work well in a double-pivot, I think that he should also be able to defend well when needed (for example, I don't think Pirlo would work well in a 4-2-3-1) which is why a lot of fans want the club to sign someone like Van Ginkel and Modric.

That is also why I don't think Oscar should be moved to the pivot. Your analysis of this was absolutely spot on, imo. What Oscar does best for the team is his link-up play, passes and creativity in the final third. Moving him deeper would be robbing him of all that. I also don't think he has the physical or defensive ability to play in the pivot. He is decent enough when he's defending against other teams fullbacks, but can you imagine him getting stuck in with Yaya Toure for example in midfield?!

The only reason people want Oscar to play in the pivot is because attacking players like him are rated highly and get all the hype, so they want to fit all of our attacking players like Oscar and Mata and Hazard and Schurrle..etc in one formation. Sometimes I think if one of our fans was our manager we'd have a goalkeeper and 10 strikers on the pitch! (kind of what Brasil have ) Unfortunately, very few people appreciate the players that do the basic things right like covering and simple passing that despite not looking too 'fancy' are crucial to the team nonetheless.

I apologize that this came out too long, and I hope it helps. There is absolutely nothing wrong with your English or understanding of football, you just have a different perspective than the one we are used to. I hope you could teach us more stuff about the Brazilian perspective of the game like the "volante"

so in that Inter team it was Cambiasso and Stankovic or Cambiasso and Thiago Motta (the pivot)? Got it.

Such an amazing explanation as well, Nour. You indeed are a sweetheart. Thanks a lot. I now will use the DLP thing. I liked it.

You guys are all amazing. Thanks a lot.

Neymar requested the shirt, slightly odd, I know; but I think most people know that Oscar's more deserving of it.

Let's you know the kind of guy Oscar is to give it up without protest though!

also the weight that shirt has in Brazil might be bigger than in clubs in Europe.

It's mystical here - I'm sure it's that important there as most teams don't even follow more the traditional 1-11 line up numbers.

But here in Brazil 90% of teams still use the 1-11 to their 11 most important players that will start 95% of the matches.

And the most important or glamoured or heaviest shirt is #10.

Neymar thinks that now he's playing for Barça he deserves it - although in his press conference on Camp Nou last week he said numbers didn't matter to him. LIAR!!!!!!

And this comes from someone who actually likes Neymar.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

also the weight that shirt has in Brazil might be bigger than in clubs in Europe.

It's mystical here - I'm sure it's that important there as most teams don't even follow more the traditional 1-11 line up numbers.

But here in Brazil 90% of teams still use the 1-11 to their 11 most important players that will start 95% of the matches.

And the most important or glamoured or heaviest shirt is #10.

Neymar thinks that now he's playing for Barça he deserves it - although in his press conference on Camp Nou last week he said numbers didn't matter to him. LIAR!!!!!!

And this comes from someone who actually likes Neymar.

Yeah, it's not that important in Europe certainly. The traditional ones like 9 and 7 might still be preferred, certainly the no7 shirt at Manchester United used to carry a certain level of weight but after Ronaldo they kind of disregarded it by giving it to Owen and then Valencia lmao. I mean we gave Bhoularouz the number 9, when we was a right-back

I think now more players prefer unique numbers to be a bit more memorable or they're significant to them, like Terry with 26 for example.

[Barbara 15,149]

btw I'm meant it's NOT that important in Europe.

I eat 'nots' and 'nos' for lunch, dinner, snack, etc... I always drop them from my sentences.

And yeah, @LDN Blue it seems like European players prefer to have their special numbers these days.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

so in that Inter team it was Cambiasso and Stankovic or Cambiasso and Thiago Motta (the pivot)? Got it.

Yes at Inter was Cambiasso and Zanetti as first choice with Stankovic and Thiago Motta as second choice. Although what Jose implemented back then was a very 'customized' 4-2-3-1. It was a work of tactical genius.

And I'm glad I could help

[Barbara 15,149]

Yes at Inter was Cambiasso and Zanetti as first choice with Stankovic and Thiago Motta as second choice. Although what Jose implemented back then was a very 'customized' 4-2-3-1. It was a work of tactical genius.

And I'm glad I could help

Oh don't mention our captain. Javier Zanetti is probably one of the players I've loved the most in my life.

Currently he's my most loved player in activity.

He's my idol!

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Oh don't mention our captain. Javier Zanetti is probably one of the players I've loved the most in my life.

Currently he's my most loved player in activity.

He's my idol!

A Brazilian loving an Argentinian player? Now I've seen it all!

[Barbara 15,149]

A Brazilian loving an Argentinian player? Now I've seen it all!

True, but my love for my clubs will always be much bigger than my love for the NT. I don't even love the NT at this point.

And just to make it clear, by default, I can't stand Argentines

Unless they prove otherwise - but they normally fail on doing so

[Mufassir08 2,400]

Am I alone thinking Oscar should be played as our #10, with Mata on the right?

No you are not alone.Oscar either should be played as no#10 or in a deeper role or else he should be on the bench.He is wasted out wide and a player of his talent and potential should be starting regularly in his preferred position or else he wont ever fulfill his potential.

[AndersonBLUE 819]

I think Oscar is much better centrally, too.

Just wondering a 4-3-3 would suit him better with:

Hazard---Lukaku---Mata

Oscar---DM------KdB

A bit of a dilemma because Mata is our best player..so don't really want to shove him out wide.

Would rather see a 433 of:

Lukaku

Hazard Mata

Oscar Ramires

DM

Mata sucks defensively so we need Ramires there. Not sure how good KDB is at defensive work. But that is a balanced formation

[Barbara 15,149]

I still think 4-2-3-1 fits us better - and fits Oscar better

Two good DMs, Mazacar and a good striker. I still don't want Oscar to be a player in the "2". I've been learning - thanks to you guys, that you call that a pivot or a DLP and I don't think Oscar is defensively good to be either.

I don't know where to put Schurrle in there though and I think if he's as good as some people make him sound, he should play. And most importantly, if we keep Torres he Andy totally needs to play, but moving Oscar to pivot or having him play DLP will just expose our defense unnecessarily. He'll probably end up benched in a lot of games

[CHOULO19 24,332]

People forget that one of the main reasons we moved to 4-2-3-1 was Mata's inability to to play on the wings in a 4-3-3. He simply doesn't have the pace for it.

[Jase 43,479]

People forget that one of the main reasons we moved to 4-2-3-1 was Mata's inability to to play on the wings in a 4-3-3. He simply doesn't have the pace for it.

And you also can't forget that our last 2 managers mainly prefers 4-2-3-1 anyway. All fell into place perfectly.

[YouNameIt 1,511]

Cech

Azpi - Terry - Cole

Luiz - DM

Schurrle - Mata - Oscar - Hazard

Cavani

[yuvala 2,167]

Cech

Azpi - Terry - Cole

Luiz - DM

Schurrle - Mata - Oscar - Hazard

Cavani

We're not gonna play 3-2-4-1.

[YouNameIt 1,511]

We're not gonna play 3-2-4-1.

Cech

Azpi - Luiz - Terry - Cole

DM

Schurrle - Oscar - Hazard

Mata

Cavani

Cech

Azpi - Luiz - Terry - Cole

DM

Schurrle - Mata - Oscar - Hazard

Cavani

Cech

Azpi - Luiz - Terry - Cole

Ramires - DM

Oscar

Mata -----------------Hazard

Cavani

Are other formations I think could work really well.

Anyway, I think Oscar should definatley be played centrally.

[Barbara 15,149]

Also I don't think we should get a player that has just been signed to play out of his position (Andy on the RW). It will only make his adaptation harder.

I think Oscar will be benched some this season, and next season if he is to become a regular in the starting XI it's going to be on Mata's place (don't kill me) supposing we keep the same team - which is unlikely.

I can also see him replacing Mata when he comes from the bench more than any other player. It's where he fits better, it's where he will do better and while I know Mata has been our best player I really doubt he will continue to be. Sorry Mata fans but Eden is much better and Oscar will probably be better too.

At the moment Mata is better - he has a couple of seasons on him - but with more matches under their belt it's only a matter of time before Eden and then Oscar become better than Mata...