Rumoured Luke Shaw

[lucio 5,418]

Depends on how you define 'quality'..

impressive performances

[Joker10 946]

You are absolutely wrong to think this season has been a breakout season for Luis, he has been regarded as arguably the best left back in La Liga for years. I know i have mentioned his quality on this forum a couple of times over the years. Two reasons why he is getting the credit he deserves among non La liga followers; one is because of Alti success inEurope+league and second because he is being linked to Chelsea. I know when he was linked to Barca a lot of Barca fans were disappointed that they signed Jordi Alba instead of him.

The comparison to Shaw and Costa is ridiculous.

[OneMoSalah 8,785]

I wouldn't mind the Filipe Luis signing but using "he's played against Ronaldo, Bale, Di Maria and Pedro" as an argument as to why we should sign him is very poor.

Using the "can he cut it out in Europe?" argument in conjunction to that is poor as well. Not every right winger in Europe is Bale/Di Maria/Pedro level...

Sure, Luis is a top left back, one of the best in Spain, but Shaw based on current ability is also one of the best in his position already in the PL too.

Shaw plays beyond his years already. On average, the jump from PL to CL isn't even that big because you don't face the best of the best every game.

You're really reaching if you're trying to use European experience as a reason not to sign Shaw IMO.

Its a factor to consider though, yes not every winger is at that level but its something that worries me a bit given we will be looking to get to the semi finals every year and we will end up against a team like Real/Bayern/Barca or that eventually. Its the same with at the World Cup, he's really unknown quality on that stage as he is in European competition, also with a massive price tag (which I wouldn't pay even if he was going to be our LB for over 10 years given hes a full back, I mean cmon we got Azpilicueta who was just as good if not better at LB this year for 7 million). What if he has a bad start? Half the forum go ape shit and say we shouldn't have spent 20-30m on him like Oscar this year lol? I'd prefer a more experienced player over him right now or Cole to stay just so we have an experienced backup of some sort. He is a great talent but he is also a slightly risky signing. I'm sure he'd be a success but I'm just looking at what could happen because theres no guarantees that he will replicate how he's played for Southampton for Chelsea as its a different team, much more pressure as theirs an expectancy to win every game. I mean if we are desperate for English players why don't we go and get Baines? Sure he's 29 and will only do a few more years but hes a better player right now. This team needs players who have already developed to close to their best so we have a mix of youthful players, players in their prime and then the much more experienced players.

[Term-X 7,891]

Signing average english players like Liverpool do isn't what I'm advocating, but when actual 'proven' english talent comes along, you have to roll the dice. It's worth the premium for the culture of the club in the long run..

With Lampard & Cole leaving it's really starting to put things in perspective. Arsenal have shaken off the bad PR they 'used' to have from fielding zero home grown players, with Wilshere, Walcott & Ox. We're now slowly going backwards, and soon enough we'll be the new Arsenal.

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

Signing average english players like Liverpool do isn't what I'm advocating, but when actual 'proven' english talent comes along, you have to roll the dice. It's worth the premium for the culture of the club in the long run..

With Lampard & Cole leaving it's really starting to put things in perspective. Arsenal have shaken off the bad PR they 'used' to have from fielding zero home grown players, with Wilshere, Walcott & Ox. We're now slowly going backwards, and soon enough we'll be the new Arsenal.

The only thing I can think of is that the board is banking on the fact that some of the English youngsters in the academy break through over the next few years.

Blackman as a backup, Chalobah maybe as soon as next season to be part of the squad. Baker, RLC, Aina in the future.

That said, not sure about first XI players. But the problem is that there really aren't many quality English players good enough to be first XI players at a top 5 European club. Feel squad players is the ceiling for most of them. Very few are even close to world class level, let alone at that level.

It is a worry though, very soon Cahill will most likely be the only Englishman in our first XI.

[Fernando 6,488]

Signing average english players like Liverpool do isn't what I'm advocating, but when actual 'proven' english talent comes along, you have to roll the dice. It's worth the premium for the culture of the club in the long run..

With Lampard & Cole leaving it's really starting to put things in perspective. Arsenal have shaken off the bad PR they 'used' to have from fielding zero home grown players, with Wilshere, Walcott & Ox. We're now slowly going backwards, and soon enough we'll be the new Arsenal.

I agree on this but it seems Jose wants Luis. :-(

[The only place to be 11,313]

Signing average english players like Liverpool do isn't what I'm advocating, but when actual 'proven' english talent comes along, you have to roll the dice. It's worth the premium for the culture of the club in the long run..

With Lampard & Cole leaving it's really starting to put things in perspective. Arsenal have shaken off the bad PR they 'used' to have from fielding zero home grown players, with Wilshere, Walcott & Ox. We're now slowly going backwards, and soon enough we'll be the new Arsenal.

Good point....but £100k p/w wages for an 18 year old? Those are the figures being reported and that's more than some of our most important players earn. It's unearned and unjustified. Should other players have pay-raises in accordance with this wage, or should they just be told that because Shaw is English he can ask for more and we'll pay it?

As for us being the new Arsenal....no.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Good point....but £100k p/w wages for an 18 year old? Those are the figures being reported and that's more than some of our most important players earn. It's unearned and unjustified. Should other players have pay-raises in accordance with this wage, or should they just be told that because Shaw is English he can ask for more and we'll pay it?

While I agree about the finances, it's not like it's not in our m.o.. I remember Sturridge was on £60k p/w when he was just a reserve player ffs.

[LAM09 6,783]

The figures going around to acquire his services aren't right in my book. We shouldn't have to pay over the odds for ANY player. Utd are eager for instant success, we aren't.

We are on course to have a great season, if he buy wisely.

[Blue Armour 4,312]

The figures going around to acquire his services aren't right in my book. We shouldn't have to pay over the odds for ANY player. Utd are eager for instant success, we aren't.

We are on course to have a great season, if he buy wisely.

That would seem ironic considering they're going for an 18 yr old, while we're gunning for a 28 yr old LB.

[LAM09 6,783]

That would seem ironic considering they're going for an 18 yr old, while we're gunning for a 28 yr old LB.

I am talking about the price tag. We are going for someone with experience for half the price. We are buying wisely, and not just hoping it will work out.

[Term-X 7,891]

I am talking about the price tag. We are going for someone with experience for half the price. We are buying wisely, and not just hoping it will work out.

Buying 'wisely' would be thinking long term, both in terms of the home grown quota (which we're failing on atm, we need 8.. I counted 4.. 5 with Fabregas.), and of course ROI. Because as mentioned a million times already, even as an 18 year old he's proven himself at the top level now, he's the 2nd best natural left back in the country.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Buying 'wisely' would be thinking long term, both in terms of the home grown quota (which we're failing on atm, we need 8.. I counted 4.. 5 with Fabregas.), and of course ROI. Because as mentioned a million times already, even as an 18 year old he's proven himself at the top level now, he's the 2nd best natural left back in the country.

So you're thinking long-term by paying £10 million per year on an 18 year old left-back who is 'proven' at the 'highest level'?

Thinking long-term isn't just about buying whichever 18 year old is doing well for about 50 games. It's about looking long-term at Academy prospects and how your future spending will be affected by purchases now. Plus people can become too enamoured with looking at ten years down the line without realising that 2-3 years is pretty long-term as well. Think at where you'll be in that time. Think where young prospects who are also homegrown and practically free might be.

How exactly do you justify to the rest of the squad that an 18 year old who has done fuck all compared to players like Cahill, Azpi, Ivanovic and Cech is earning more? There is a human element to footballers and that does need to be addressed.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Just because United are throwing £100k a week at Shaw doesn't mean we would too...

[Term-X 7,891]

So you're thinking long-term by paying £10 million per year on an 18 year old left-back who is 'proven' at the 'highest level'?

Thinking long-term isn't just about buying whichever 18 year old is doing well for about 50 games. It's about looking long-term at Academy prospects and how your future spending will be affected by purchases now. Plus people can become too enamoured with looking at ten years down the line without realising that 2-3 years is pretty long-term as well. Think at where you'll be in that time. Think where young prospects who are also homegrown and practically free might be.

How exactly do you justify to the rest of the squad that an 18 year old who has done fuck all compared to players like Cahill, Azpi, Ivanovic and Cech is earning more? There is a human element to footballers and that does need to be addressed.

Those 'reported' wages he's 'demanding!' are speculative though, Shaw would know once he's been here a few years he'll get an increase anyway. Plus the outside commerical deals he's likely to get as a Chelsea player.

Pretty much zero faith in our ability to push through academy prospects, so I don't bother factoring that in.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Those 'reported' wages he's 'demanding!' are speculative though, he'd know once he's been here a few years he'll get an increase anyway. Plus the outside commerical deals he's likely to get as a Chelsea player.

Pretty much zero faith in our ability to push through academy prospects, so I don't bother factoring that in.

Those 'reported' wages are no different from the 'reported' fee so why don't we call everything into question? Heck, he might only cost £5 to buy and want to be paid in hugs....we should definitely buy him.

Truth is we're basing all our arguments on 'reported' numbers. Let's just pretend they're real - how exactly does paying him £100k p/w fit in with our wage structure? How is it justifiable when we're looking at getting a proven left-back (not 'proven', but proven) for about £5 million less in fees and £20k pw less in wages (which fits into our reported wage structure perfectly)?

As for the cop out on the academy, the club do want to produce their own players so with that in mind they're actually looking to the future and buying a quality player in the meantime.

[Term-X 7,891]

Those 'reported' wages are no different from the 'reported' fee so why don't we call everything into question? Heck, he might only cost £5 to buy and want to be paid in hugs....we should definitely buy him.

Truth is we're basing all our arguments on 'reported' numbers. Let's just pretend they're real - how exactly does paying him £100k p/w fit in with our wage structure? How is it justifiable when we're looking at getting a proven left-back (not 'proven', but proven) for about £5 million less in fees and £20k pw less in wages (which fits into our reported wage structure perfectly)?

As for the cop out on the academy, the club do want to produce their own players so with that in mind they're actually looking to the future and buying a quality player in the meantime.

Quality players in the meantime?, we've been buying young foreign prospects from other clubs to kill our academy youth. So it's not a cop out, just reality.

Hazard's wages were 'reported' to be astronomical when we were in the race to sign him with United & City. Transfer fees are more reliable (in general), with buy out clauses and so forth..

[The only place to be 11,313]

Quality players in the meantime?, we've been buying young foreign prospects from other clubs to kill our academy youth. So it's not a cop out, just reality.

Not really. You're going to have to be specific about which foreigners you're talking about though because the cases of Atsu and Salah would be different from Boga and Ake.

Hazard's wages were 'reported' to be astronomical when we were in the race to sign him with United & City. Transfer fees are more reliable (in general), with buy out clauses and so forth..

Again, dancing around the issue of how his reported wages might actually be a factor in purchasing him because you don't like them. Hazard is a lot more marketable than Shaw so his wages could be justified slightly because of things like image rights. Again, that's really not the point because Hazard was also far better than Shaw when we bought him.

Wages are an issue in this transfer. Either talk about them or simply admit that it's not something you care about because you really, really, really want Shaw.