Wishlist Hulk

[Marvin123 485]

Where did I change my tune? Saying bye now because you've lost this argument...pathetic. Good riddance.

funny child

[bababoom 4,478]

Any news?

[KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607]

funny child

Fitting response from someone of your intelligence.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Take away the Torres signing and our signings over the recent years has been quite smart, you can't deny that.

Yes, for £38m we can sign a bunch of decent players, but we don't need decent players to fill up the squad. We need a direct threat. £38m for Hulk is quite excessive and perhaps a couple of million over his preferred price of around £30m but that's the going rate of the market unfortunately.

Personally I'd pay £35m for Hulk at maximum in the current inflated market but it is what it is.

No, they haven't been smart even without Torres. They've been mixed at best. In fact, our poor transfer record in the past 4 years is the biggest reason we have declined. Our best players, our core were still the same players from years ago. This is something that AVB didn't get. He wanted to replace the old guard, but the old guard were still most of our best players so replacing them meant we were a worse team. We spent something like 125M in the past 4 years and have got one excellent player (Mata) and a few of other useful to good ones. Luiz was a terrible signing -25.5M euros and a player. Even if he ends up becoming a regular starter, it's an enormous fee for a central defender, (I think 4th highest ever after Ferdinand, Nesta, and Carvalho) For that price, you need to be getting one of the best defenders in the world in your central defence for a decade, not an inconsistent player who makes a lot of simple mistakes. We paid 12M for Meireles which is too much for a pretty good squad player. Lukaku was 13-18M pounds which has been a disaster so far. If we sold him now,he'd fetch about half of that now. Ramires for 17M is about right. Mata for 23.5M was good value. Benayoun for 5.5M barely played a game for us. 18M for Zhirkov was terrible, 3.5-6.5M for Sturridge was fabulous.Bosingwa for 16.2M was way overpriced, Deco for 8M didn't really give us much. Cahill for 7M looks good but he was out of contract in a few months so it's a different case. Still, even if he were 12-14M, it'd be a pretty decent buy IMO. Those are the significant the transfers over the past 4 years where we can make some judgement.When adding the Torres debacle, I am certain, it's the worst recent transfer history of any of the top-6 teams this season. (Liverpool's would be probably even worse than ours.)

[Marvin123 485]

Fitting response from someone of your intelligence.

great responses!

best thing about them is... you think your great

[bushman 2,043]

Way too many excess of players were bought by Roman. Several of them cost plenty while they are not even playing now.

Another 38m for Hulk might be deemed as an exceptional buy, but at what cost ?

Moses, Modric for almost the same amount will be much better buy for the team, I feel.

If Porto wants more money for Hulk, let him rot there. Meanwhile, Chelsea will win more trophies & he can only dream about those in Porto.

[KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607]

No, they haven't been smart even without Torres. They've been mixed at best. In fact, our poor transfer record in the past 4 years is the biggest reason we have declined. Our best players, our core were still the same players from years ago. This is something that AVB didn't get. He wanted to replace the old guard, but the old guard were still most of our best players so replacing them meant we were a worse team. We spent something like 125M in the past 4 years and have got one excellent player (Mata) and a few of other useful to good ones. Luiz was a terrible signing -25.5M euros and a player. Even if he ends up becoming a regular starter, it's an enormous fee for a central defender, (I think 4th highest ever after Ferdinand, Nesta, and Carvalho) For that price, you need to be getting one of the best defenders in the world in your central defence for a decade, not an inconsistent player who makes a lot of simple mistakes. We paid 12M for Meireles which is too much for a pretty good squad player. Lukaku was 13-18M pounds which has been a disaster so far. If we sold him now,he'd fetch about half of that now. Ramires for 17M is about right. Mata for 23.5M was good value. Benayoun for 5.5M barely played a game for us. 18M for Zhirkov was terrible, 3.5-6.5M for Sturridge was fabulous.Bosingwa for 16.2M was way overpriced, Deco for 8M didn't really give us much. Cahill for 7M looks good but he was out of contract in a few months so it's a different case. Still, even if he were 12-14M, it'd be a pretty decent buy IMO. Those are the significant the transfers over the past 4 years where we can make some judgement.When adding the Torres debacle, I am certain, it's the worst recent transfer history of any of the top-6 teams this season. (Liverpool's would be probably even worse than ours.)

Cahill was a fantastic buy. Luiz was very overpriced but he has been solid under RDM. He doesn't make those mistakes he used to. He's been classy and could become even better. So the price may eventually be worth it. Consider that he also may be at the club for many years. Same thing for Lukaku. 18 million could seem like a Bargain for him in a few years.

[bushman 2,043]

How do you see Lukaku as being a bargain in a few years if he sits on the bench ?

Waisted talent, I call it. Unless he gets to play somewhere else & I hope he won´t end up as Josh.

[KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607]

How do you see Lukaku as being a bargain in a few years if he sits on the bench ?

Waisted talent, I call it. Unless he gets to play somewhere else & I hope he won´t end up as Josh.

Obviously I mean if he goes out on loans and develops...

[Marvin123 485]

How do you see Lukaku as being a bargain in a few years if he sits on the bench ?

Waisted talent, I call it. Unless he gets to play somewhere else & I hope he won´t end up as Josh.

i hope we stick with torres and lukaku as our main strikers, cant see it happening but i would like it to

sturridge could be played there if needed too

[bushman 2,043]

Obviously I mean if he goes out on loans and develops...

Well, I hope he goes to a club where he plays every game.

However, his fee of 18m seems like money sitting idle. Something is not very kosher if the club spends 18m & he never gets to play at all. Of course that arrogant AVB was responsible for it though.

I even would give Lukaku a proper chance to show his stuff in the summer´s training camp, instead of shipping him out now.

As for Hulk, 38m saved & just maybe Lukaku could be one fine hit ?

[KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607]

As for Hulk, 38m saved

What do you mean saved?

[Leif 6,006]

RE: Our crap scouting methods.

Whatever Borussia Dortmund do - we should follow.

They are the best team I've seen when it comes to scouting in the past decade or-so.

They should be the model club that all other clubs base themselves on.

A great, patient board, amazing scouting, plenty of home-grown players and youth players who eventually make the first team.

Actually, F' Chelsea.

I'm supporting Dortmund from now on!!!

[The Skipper 20,593]

No, they haven't been smart even without Torres. They've been mixed at best. In fact, our poor transfer record in the past 4 years is the biggest reason we have declined. Our best players, our core were still the same players from years ago. This is something that AVB didn't get. He wanted to replace the old guard, but the old guard were still most of our best players so replacing them meant we were a worse team. We spent something like 125M in the past 4 years and have got one excellent player (Mata) and a few of other useful to good ones. Luiz was a terrible signing -25.5M euros and a player. Even if he ends up becoming a regular starter, it's an enormous fee for a central defender, (I think 4th highest ever after Ferdinand, Nesta, and Carvalho) For that price, you need to be getting one of the best defenders in the world in your central defence for a decade, not an inconsistent player who makes a lot of simple mistakes. We paid 12M for Meireles which is too much for a pretty good squad player. Lukaku was 13-18M pounds which has been a disaster so far. If we sold him now,he'd fetch about half of that now. Ramires for 17M is about right. Mata for 23.5M was good value. Benayoun for 5.5M barely played a game for us. 18M for Zhirkov was terrible, 3.5-6.5M for Sturridge was fabulous.Bosingwa for 16.2M was way overpriced, Deco for 8M didn't really give us much. Cahill for 7M looks good but he was out of contract in a few months so it's a different case. Still, even if he were 12-14M, it'd be a pretty decent buy IMO. Those are the significant the transfers over the past 4 years where we can make some judgement.When adding the Torres debacle, I am certain, it's the worst recent transfer history of any of the top-6 teams this season. (Liverpool's would be probably even worse than ours.)

No, sorry I disagree with most of that. When I say recent years I meant from around the 2010 season. From then to now we've signed (not counting youngsters):

Luiz

Ramires

Benayoun

Torres

Courtois

KDB

Mata

Cahill

Romeu

Hazard

Marin

You can't say those aren't decent signings. Go compare that to United's signings and you'll see that we haven't done bad. Like I said if you take Torres out of the equation, that's around £125m on 10 players. When you add all outgoings, which was around £40m to that... You have a net of £85m spent on 10 first team players, which isn't too bad considering we got a couple of gems out of there.

I don't know how anyone could say Luiz was a terrible signing, the guy is a class defender. £23m might be maybe £5m over his true value at the time but to say he was a waste of a signing is absurd. Luiz has been a revelation since he's signed bar the odd couple of defensive mistakes (which you can almost count on your hand) you can't say he's been a poor signing. I'd love to know your reasoning behind him being a poor signing. It's no coincidence he's been linked with Barca, the guy is underrated, people let the media shape their opinion on a player way too much.

Since Gourlay has taken over, our signings have been a lot smarter. No one can deny that. Compare our first team in and out goings to other clubs in the top 6 and you'll easily see that.

[The Skipper 20,593]

RE: Our crap scouting methods.

Whatever Borussia Dortmund do - we should follow.

They are the best team I've seen when it comes to scouting in the past decade or-so.

They should be the model club that all other clubs base themselves on.

A great, patient board, amazing scouting, plenty of home-grown players and youth players who eventually make the first team.

Actually, F' Chelsea.

I'm supporting Dortmund from now on!!!

You know what, that would be ideal, but we (fans, and board) don't have enough patience for that. We're already at the top so we won't be able to do that without suffering quite a lot. Until recently, Borussia weren't a top team, and that allowed them to build this patient philosophy and extensive scouting network. It'd be harder for us because everyone expects us to win trophies whilst doing the above.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

No, sorry I disagree with most of that. When I say recent years I meant from around the 2010 season. From then to now we've signed (not counting youngsters):

Luiz

Ramires

Benayoun

Torres

Courtois

KDB

Mata

Cahill

Romeu

Hazard

Marin

You can't say those aren't decent signings. Go compare that to United's signings and you'll see that we haven't done bad. Like I said if you take Torres out of the equation, that's around £125m on 10 players. When you add all outgoings, which was around £40m to that... You have a net of £85m spent on 10 first team players, which isn't too bad considering we got a couple of gems out of there.

I don't know how anyone could say Luiz was a terrible signing, the guy is a class defender. £23m might be maybe £5m over his true value at the time but to say he was a waste of a signing is absurd. Luiz has been a revelation since he's signed bar the odd couple of defensive mistakes (which you can almost count on your hand) you can't say he's been a poor signing. I'd love to know your reasoning behind him being a poor signing. It's no coincidence he's been linked with Barca, the guy is underrated, people let the media shape their opinion on a player way too much.

Since Gourlay has taken over, our signings have been a lot smarter. No one can deny that. Compare our first team in and out goings to other clubs in the top 6 and you'll easily see that.

I do deny it and it's very easy. Chelsea have spent what, 175M on 11 players in the past two seasons? Only one of them is a bona fide core player (Mata) while Luiz, Cahill and Ramires are useful players. The others it either remains to be seen or have been flops. Manchester City has spent about 197M in the past two years and they got Ya Ya Toure, Silva, Nasri, Aguero, Balotelli, Milner, Dzeko, and Clichy. That''s a hell of a lot better than what we've got for 12% less spending. Manchester United spent about 75M and got Kagawa, Javier Hernandez, De Gea, Ashley Young, Smalling, and Phil Jones.

And I'm sorry, saying Luiz has been a class defender has got to be a joke. He was much better under RDM, but Luiz was a disaster before that. It wasn't just a mistake here or there like what happens with all defenders, it was Luiz consistently being completely out of position. I don't know how many times I yelled at the screen "Where the F*** are you going?" at Luiz because he was wandering far up the left side or or just standing there as his defender ran by him or standing 15 feet away from where he should have been. Not just that, but Luiz made a lot of stupid choices, lunging for defenders, giving away free kicks and even penalties when he had position and he only needed to stand his ground. Not just that, but his passing was way too ambitious. Instead of playing the ball to Mikel or Lampard, he kept trying and failing to hit 50 yard passes. His decision making and his positioning were awful.I know he's got great hair and is good at going forward and he seems like a really nice guy, but he's been incredible mediocre at Chelsea and not worth anything close to what we paid for him. Gary Neville's "he's like a 10 year old playing playstation" is about how Luiz played under Ancelotti and AVB. That said, I do have hope for him with a coach that tells him he has to stay put like RDM seemed to last season, but we paid world-class defender money for him. As for Barca, I think he'd actually be really good there as he loves to go forward and that fits into the way they play. Also, they basically never give up possession so defenders don't really have to defend much. In England, it's the opposite. Being a top defender is almost all about positioning and making good choices and going forward as a defender is a small part of the game.

I said this earlier in this thread yesterday because I know it would be the same with Hulk. Torres and Luiz are easily the two most overrated players on Chelsea for what they have actually brought the team and it's the whole image thing. If a player has a strong image, fans will love them.

There are so many examples of Luiz making a complete mess of it, but one of the lesser-known ones that I think is a good example was Stracqualursi's goal to make it 2-0 Everton.There was a 50-50 in midfield and the ball comes to Landon Donovan on the right side. Instead of standing his ground, Luiz comes out about 25 yards and to the left of the box putting himself in an awful position. Then, instead of trying to play Donovan and forcing him wide or back, he tries to kick at the ball. Donovan goes right by him and Luiz is left standing there. Ivanvovic is trying to cut down the angle but it's impossible because Everton now have two attackers in space. Donovan plays a ball into a streaking Stracqualursi who is right where Luiz should have been and he scores. Luiz is 20 yards from the play. It's the trifecta combination of poor positioning, poor decision making, and poor execution.

[Marvin123 485]

I do deny it and it's very easy. Chelsea have spent what, 175M on 11 players in the past two seasons? Only one of them is a bona fide core player (Mata) while Luiz, Cahill and Ramires are useful players. The others it either remains to be seen or have been flops. Manchester City has spent about 197M in the past two years and they got Ya Ya Toure, Silva, Nasri, Aguero, Balotelli, Milner, Dzeko, and Clichy. That''s a hell of a lot better than what we've got for 12% less spending. Manchester United spent about 75M and got Kagawa, Javier Hernandez, De Gea, Ashley Young, Smalling, and Phil Jones.

And I'm sorry, saying Luiz has been a class defender has got to be a joke. He was much better under RDM, but Luiz was a disaster before that. It wasn't just a mistake here or there like what happens with all defenders, it was Luiz consistently being completely out of position. I don't know how many times I yelled at the screen "Where the F*** are you going?" at Luiz because he was wandering far up the left side or or just standing there as his defender ran by him or standing 15 feet away from where he should have been. Not just that, but Luiz made a lot of stupid choices, lunging for defenders, giving away free kicks and even penalties when he had position and he only needed to stand his ground. Not just that, but his passing was way too ambitious. Instead of playing the ball to Mikel or Lampard, he kept trying and failing to hit 50 yard passes. His decision making and his positioning were awful.I know he's got great hair and is good at going forward and he seems like a really nice guy, but he's been incredible mediocre at Chelsea and not worth anything close to what we paid for him. Gary Neville's "he's like a 10 year old playing playstation" is about how Luiz played under Ancelotti and AVB. That said, I do have hope for him with a coach that tells him he has to stay put like RDM seemed to last season, but we paid world-class defender money for him. As for Barca, I think he'd actually be really good there as he loves to go forward and that fits into the way they play. Also, they basically never give up possession so defenders don't really have to defend much. In England, it's the opposite. Being a top defender is almost all about positioning and making good choices and going forward as a defender is a small part of the game.

I said this earlier in this thread yesterday because I know it would be the same with Hulk. Torres and Luiz are easily the two most overrated players on Chelsea for what they have actually brought the team and it's the whole image thing. If a player has a strong image, fans will love them.

There are so many examples of Luiz making a complete mess of it, but one of the lesser-known ones that I think is a good example was Stracqualursi's goal to make it 2-0 Everton.There was a 50-50 in midfield and the ball comes to Landon Donovan on the right side. Instead of standing his ground, Luiz comes out about 25 yards and to the left of the box putting himself in an awful position. Then, instead of trying to play Donovan and forcing him wide or back, he tries to kick at the ball. Donovan goes right by him and Luiz is left standing there. Ivanvovic is trying to cut down the angle but it's impossible because Everton now have two attackers in space. Donovan plays a ball into a streaking Stracqualursi who is right where Luiz should have been and he scores. Luiz is 20 yards from the play. It's the trifecta combination of poor positioning, poor decision making, and poor execution.

luiz is absolute class.

[Sheva. 5,373]

Luiz makes silly mistakes at times, but he's a good defender who has improved immensely the past 5 months.