David Luiz

[bushman 2,043]

Defend first (he's a defender....clue's in the title).

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I think Garry Neville put it perfectly. The EPL and the English "pundits" are not used to defenders like Luiz. It's a cultural difference and no one style has to be wrong and the other right.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I think Garry Neville put it perfectly. The EPL and the English "pundits" are not used to defenders like Luiz. It's a cultural difference and no one style has to be wrong and the other right.

I think that shows a complete lack of understanding of English football. Which pundits are you referring to? One of the harshest critics has probably been Alan Hansen, so are you saying he's not used to defenders like Luiz???

You can reference these defenders who might have aspects of Luiz's game, but they were switched on guys who defended first. I don't know if Luiz couldn't be bothered on Saturday or was just having an off day, but this is who he is. He will make mistakes that will lead to goals. He'll also look like the best defender on Earth sometimes.

[bushman 2,043]

I think Garry Neville put it perfectly. The EPL and the English "pundits" are not used to defenders like Luiz. It's a cultural difference and no one style has to be wrong and the other right.

Yes, I agree about the styles of play, but I would not place too much weight on Gary C.

So far & in most cases it was compensated for Luiz´s mistakes. Having said that, it may not work every time.

If Chelsea plays, let´s say in the semis of CL against much stronger teams, the team might be screwed royally.

[robsblubot 3,595]

Yes, I agree about the styles of play, but I would not place too much weight on Gary C.

So far & in most cases it was compensated for Luiz´s mistakes. Having said that, it may not work every time.

If Chelsea plays, let´s say in the semis of CL against much stronger teams, the team might be screwed royally.

agreed. It'd be inexcusable if he were to make such a mistake against a top side in a tough CL or EPL match.

However, so far, what we've seen is that he becomes more composed in more important matches. That has been the case for both Chelsea and Brazil so it's not like we don't have enough evidence of that. I'm including here one CL final and one Confederations Cup final (against Spain) where he was close to MotM.

It's not just the international break though; he does display the swagger in these type of matches, against smaller sides. That will have to beaten out of him the hard way I'm afraid. I've seen this before and it comes naturally when players are that good - impeccable technique. His first touch and passing are out of this world esp considering he is a CB. I've watched many great footballer play live back in Brazil, but was genuinely impressed when I saw David play the friendly against Roma.

[bushman 2,043]

agreed. It'd be inexcusable if he were to make such a mistake against a top side in a tough CL or EPL match.

However, so far, what we've seen is that he becomes more composed in more important matches. That has been the case for both Chelsea and Brazil so it's not like we don't have enough evidence of that. I'm including here one CL final and one Confederations Cup final (against Spain) where he was close to MotM.

It's not just the international break though; he does display the swagger in these type of matches, against smaller sides. That will have to beaten out of him the hard way I'm afraid. I've seen this before and it comes naturally when players are that good - impeccable technique. His first touch and passing are out of this world esp considering he is a CB. I've watched many great footballer play live back in Brazil, but was genuinely impressed when I saw David play the friendly against Roma.

Well, Luiz is impressive when it works. If it doesn´t, he is liability.

I am a supporter from the older school. I like to see him staying back or one more mistake, I´d benched him.

[robsblubot 3,595]

Well, Luiz is impressive when it works. If it doesn´t, he is liability.

I am a supporter from the older school. I like to see him staying back or one more mistake, I´d benched him.

fair enough. We all have our own personal preferences, esp concerning styles.

However, the alternative of employing a player who is less apt (technically speaking), which would only cause us to concede goals at the highest level, when facing gifted forwarders who he wouldn't be able to handle, isn't any better. There wouln't be any scoring if Cbs didn't make mistakes, but the mistakes can be very obvious like the one David made, or less obvious, when the defender is easily beaten by a FW on pace, or skill, etc. The result is the same though.

I just don't think we have that player you speak of, aside from Terry. Either Luiz gets his shit together, or we will need to find another player who is technically as good, and at the same time more composed (good luck with that one). I for one don't share the idea that Cahill is good enough to be a starter for Chelsea (or England). BTW, his style of play makes England a worse team all the way to the front.

Also, players can and do become more composed as they age. However, players rarely (or at least not as much) improve their technique.

[bushman 2,043]

fair enough. We all have our own personal preferences, esp concerning styles.

However, the alternative of employing a player who is less apt (technically speaking), which would only cause us to concede goals at the highest level, when facing gifted forwarders who he wouldn't be able to handle, isn't any better. There wouln't be any scoring if Cbs didn't make mistakes, but the mistakes can be very obvious like the one David made, or less obvious, when the defender is easily beaten by a FW on pace, or skill, etc. The result is the same though.

I just don't think we have that player you speak of, aside from Terry. Either Luiz gets his shit together, or we will need to find another player who is technically as good, and at the same time more composed (good luck with that one). I for one don't share the idea that Cahill is good enough to be a starter for Chelsea (or England). BTW, his style of play makes England a worse team all the way to the front.

Also, players can and do become more composed as they age. However, players rarely (or at least not as much) improve their technique.

I believe JT & Cahill are better defenders than Luiz.

As you said, we prefer various styles. When Luiz goes on the attack, mid-fielders are looking at him flying by. If he makes mistake, the ball is taken away from him, a quick counter-attack follows & Luiz is adjusting his shorts in the nowhere land.

Personally, I do not even like to see him taking a long distance free kicks. Short ones, let him have it though.

Most of the times, he kicks the ball into Jesus´ land.

[robsblubot 3,595]

I believe JT & Cahill are better defenders than Luiz.

As you said, we prefer various styles. When Luiz goes on the attack, mid-fielders are looking at him flying by. If he makes mistake, the ball is taken away from him, a quick counter-attack follows & Luiz is adjusting his shorts in the nowhere land.

Personally, I do not even like to see him taking a long distance free kicks. Short ones, let him have it though.

Most of the times, he kicks the ball into Jesus´ land.

OK, now were are discussing a different thing. When he goes to attack that's up to the team to provide or not cover for him. If we cannot provide cover for his runs, then the manager tells him not to make them otherwise he's dropped; neither happens so we have to assume he is not told to quit making runs esp since we've got a CB playing RB in Iva - who can easily cover Luiz.

Now going back to his positioning and lack of concentration at times, that's indeed a problem. Pretty sure Luiz himself knows it and I only hope they've been working with him to improve on that.

Agree about Terry disagree on Cahill. Really don't see what you guys see in him. Nothing special about his game or technique. He always looks composed, but that's hardly enough for top sides or when playing against top sides.

[bushman 2,043]

OK, now were are discussing a different thing. When he goes to attack that's up to the team to provide or not cover for him. If we cannot provide cover for his runs, then the manager tells him not to make them otherwise he's dropped; neither happens so we have to assume he is not told to quit making runs esp since we've got a CB playing RB in Iva - who can easily cover Luiz.

Now going back to his positioning and lack of concentration at times, that's indeed a problem. Pretty sure Luiz himself knows it and I only hope they've been working with him to improve on that.

Agree about Terry disagree on Cahill. Really don't see what you guys see in him. Nothing special about his game or technique. He always looks composed, but that's hardly enough for top sides or when playing against top sides.

How do you stop Luiz from attacks ? Sometimes, he is up top so fast, JT or Iva are looking confused what happened, then.

Cahill, makes mistakes too, I agree. But every player does.

One thing I believe, if Chelsea buys Mangala from Porto Luiz might be gone.

[robsblubot 3,595]

How do you stop Luiz from attacks ? Sometimes, he is up top so fast, JT or Iva are looking confused what happened, then.

Cahill, makes mistakes too, I agree. But every player does.

One thing I believe, if Chelsea buys Mangala from Porto Luiz might be gone.

Instructions, match preparation, training... he didn't make a single run in the CL final; he rarely makes runs for Brazil. Honestly, if the manager tells him not to make the runs and he still does, why would the manager play him after he disobeys his instructions? Players are dropped for far less. So I have to assume and I know that Benitez for example stated so, that they actually encourage him to make them.

Haven't seen Mangala play, but he's hardly been tested at the highest stage. I just hope Luiz doesn't move to Barca or Bayern then, because that would work too well for them (style wise).

On Cahill, not talking about mistakes so much, but technical deficiencies which will be only found when playing at the highest level against skillful FW. Getting beaten for example. Luiz proactive way of playing is the right one against top strikers and players - don't give em time to control the football and turn, otherwise they will punish you.

[bushman 2,043]

Instructions, match preparation, training... he didn't make a single run in the CL final; he rarely makes runs for Brazil. Honestly, if the manager tells him not to make the runs and he still does, why would the manager play him after he disobeys his instructions? Players are dropped for far less. So I have to assume and I know that Benitez for example stated so, that they actually encourage him to make them.

Haven't seen Mangala play, but he's hardly been tested at the highest stage. I just hope Luiz doesn't move to Barca or Bayern then, because that would work too well for them (style wise).

On Cahill, not talking about mistakes so much, but technical deficiencies which will be only found when playing at the highest level against skillful FW. Getting beaten for example. Luiz proactive way of playing is the right one against top strikers and players - don't give em time to control the football and turn, otherwise they will punish you.

Oh boy, I like this " Luiz proactive way of playing.." may I ask how does that work against top strikers ? Are they watching his feet shuffle ?

[Tomo 21,751]

I think Garry Neville put it perfectly. The EPL and the English "pundits" are not used to defenders like Luiz. It's a cultural difference and no one style has to be wrong and the other right.

Carragher's pretty decent as far as pundits go, but he always looks out of his depth when debating with Neville.

I think that shows a complete lack of understanding of English football. Which pundits are you referring to? One of the harshest critics has probably been Alan Hansen, so are you saying he's not used to defenders like Luiz???

You can reference these defenders who might have aspects of Luiz's game, but they were switched on guys who defended first. I don't know if Luiz couldn't be bothered on Saturday or was just having an off day, but this is who he is. He will make mistakes that will lead to goals. He'll also look like the best defender on Earth sometimes.

That's the deal you get with these type of players. Lucio was exactly the same, so is Pique. They will take risk's and every now and again the risk will backfire, but what he brings to the table outweighs the risk, English pundits are still have their head buried in the get stuck in and hoof it away.

All of the pundits and commentator's go on about Luiz, even when he had a near perfect match in Romania, the commentator was bleating on about his supposed wreckless side, it's relentless.

[mac.bo 48]

Defend first (he's a defender....clue's in the title).

Best of both worlds push him into the " Mikel role" in front of Terry who can talk or shout at him! At least his errors are getting less but still has to learn when and when not to tackle.

[Korea 734]

eh, I dont rate Luiz as "world class" as people on this board do...

However, with our current squad, the only CBs that should be mentioned with him are Terry and Ivan.. (But than again they all start so....)