🇧🇷 David Luiz

[robsblubot 3,595]

Brazil and football in the sun is not the same as Newcastle and the Premier league in the mud and rain and it showed,he reminds me a lot of Frank Lebouef in his early days,Lebouef learned how to cope,Every season we seem to falter when the clocks go back,it is no coincidence,Luiz did not want to get dirty on Saturday. He remains a player of supreme ability,but needs to be able to cope with days like Saturday,his patheric effort of a tackle followed by the cowardly trip is not what is needed on a winters day up north in England.

fair enough...

The team crumbled in the second half though. Look at the number of saves Cech made in he second half. The number of times, our defenders were one-on-one against the opposition (like in David's missed interception). That's a big no no in football.

The logic of if we had X instead of Y only works if X's deficiencies are factored in, not only his virtues. Otherwise the player who did not play, when we lose, is always better than the one who did play. That's why you see ppl saying Mikel should've played.

When so many things go wrong in a team, some (prob most of the) blame has to be on the manager who picked the players and the strategy. Was a high defense line correct against a team who (historically) thrive in long balls? On a wet pitch like you said? The strategy wasn't David's, but Mourinho's.

[Vybz Kartel 1,613]

Most people are making him a scape goat. He wasn't even at fault for both goals, I admit he has his flaws but seriously give him a break. Cahill has had worse mistakes but still people don't criticise him for example against arsenal he played miyachi in same as against city he war consistently playing aguero in. Luiz makes one mistake everyone loses their mind but when Cahill, bran and jt do no one bets an eyelid

[Special Juan 28,141]

Most people are making him a scape goat. He wasn't even at fault for both goals, I admit he has his flaws but seriously give him a break. Cahill has had worse mistakes but still people don't criticise him for example against arsenal he played miyachi in same as against city he war consistently playing aguero in. Luiz makes one mistake everyone loses their mind but when Cahill, bran and jt do no one bets an eyelid

Nobody from what I read are making him the single scape goat, after all, this is the Luiz thread and people are rightly discussing his frailties.

Not even the most ardent Luiz fan can say he's playing well, he's not and needs to up his game, as do most of them for that matter so it's not Luiz, just the Luiz thread.

[Henrique 9,133]

Not sure if there's a need to bring the nationality of supporters into it. Seems a strange line to take.

Nationality is not a bad thing at all. We should freely speak abou it. There is always some kind of bias when the subject is countryman. I take Cahill example again. Since Cahill joined, most part of members who believe he's a very good defender are english. Last year there was a poll asking who should be the next captain. A lot of people said Cahill was the answer, and almost 100% of them were born in UK as well, and he wasn't even a starting XI at that time.

Perhaps deep down in my heart the reason why I love Luiz is the fact he is from Brazil, even tough I think its more related with his hair and his passion for the game. Phil Driver just takes it to a whole new level. I understand him, and in fact I think he is a very nice forum member.

Don't take me wrong.

[Henrique 9,133]

Nobody from what I read are making him the single scape goat, after all, this is the Luiz thread and people are rightly discussing his frailties.

Not even the most ardent Luiz fan can say he's playing well, he's not and needs to up his game, as do most of them for that matter so it's not Luiz, just the Luiz thread.

He is not as bad as some people here are picturing him.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

Say in 10 games, 7 or 8 games you'll get Luiz playing very well and 2 or 3 games you'll get him playing ok but with the odd fuck up. Hes not a liability as much, hes just unpredictable and can lack concentration.

He has genuine world class ability.He can be one of the best ball playing center backs in the world. He has certain leadership qualities but being a leader you have to set an example, if he is going to do what he did vs Cardiff or something similar a few times every season then really is he a perfect candidate for captain? I don't know. His decision making has to improve, if he sorts that out along with some positioning issues he can have then he will become one of the most talented defenders Chelsea will have ever had. Its one thing doing it for Brazil but its another doing it for Chelsea.

Also Cahill for captain, that's just laughable. Good back up, solid at times, typical English CB, passion and determination makes up for lack of genuine ability. I wouldn't let him be captain, hes English yes but that doesn't mean he deserves to be the next captain.

[Ainsley Harriott 2,732]

Aaaaaand they're back at it. Amazing.

[robsblubot 3,595]

lol at the headlines...

[The only place to be 11,313]

His problem isn't that he's not a good player or that he has some deficiencies - that's excusable.

His problem is that he loses focus, gets lazy, looks laid back and pulled out of a challenge on Saturday. Those things are inexcusable and verging on dishonest. If a striker beats him for pace or out-jumps him for a cross when Luiz is giving his all then that's not a problem because it happens to the best defenders. But if he's gifting the opposition chances because he's not 100% committed to the cause then he can fuck off.

I'd take Gary Cahill making an honest mistake over David Luiz putting in the type of performance he showed against Cardiff every single time.

[Reddish-Blue 2,505]

His problem isn't that he's not a good player or that he has some deficiencies - that's excusable.

His problem is that he loses focus, gets lazy, looks laid back and pulled out of a challenge on Saturday. Those things are inexcusable and verging on dishonest. If a striker beats him for pace or out-jumps him for a cross when Luiz is giving his all then that's not a problem because it happens to the best defenders. But if he's gifting the opposition chances because he's not 100% committed to the cause then he can fuck off.

I'd take Gary Cahill making an honest mistake over David Luiz putting in the type of performance he showed against Cardiff every single time.

I'd take Luiz over Cahill any day of the week.

Luiz just needs a kick up the ass from Jose.

If he doesn't improve on his performances, then i'm sure Jose won't have much choice other than to sell him.

[Special Juan 28,141]

He probably had a kick up the arse after Cardiff, how many kicks up the arse does he want?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Not sure if there's a need to bring the nationality of supporters into it. Seems a strange line to take.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Looks like he'll be dropped for the second time in recent weeks after a poor performance in the league.

blah blah blah bounce back blah blah blah word in his ear please Jose blah blah what's Barca's number again?

[Strike 7,489]

I always said that Luiz is more a DM than a CB. Only Lampard die hard fans would say that Luiz won't do any better than the living legend (no sarcasm here) playing alongside Ramires in the mid at this moment.

I don't think changing Luiz to DM after all these years as a CB is a good thing. He wasn't particularly good in his time in midfield last year

[kellzfresh 7,229]

I know he hasnt been in great form of late but....

[Tomo 21,751]

I know he hasnt been in great form of late but....

Excuse me? what the hell are you doing bringing facts into it? only myths are allowed on this thread

[Mouri_Matic 560]

Any one feels he might get arrogant more by the day and as a result start to laid back a bit more? His explosiveness seems to have been gone this season, now he looks very different from the one we signed 2 years ago. While he is a bit better defensively, he is also so much more laid back. Remember that Fulham game where he gave away a penalty at the last min? Now 2 weeks ago he made a careless error against Cardiff and don't seem to give a fuck anymore. Same with again Newcastle despite not being directly at fault.

Maybe that Barca bid this summer has changed his mind and attitude, now he thinks because Barca want him he is automatically one of the best CB in the world and it doesn't matter if he is dropped, if he wants to leave other big teams will come in for him anyway. Also a few weeks ago I think he came out and said he got nothing to prove, everyone knows who David Luiz is. That is Ronaldo esque arrogance, remember Luiz had never been a complete world class defender, he was just a joy to watch because of his passion and commitment, now without these 2 things he is useless as he is not even good at defending which is the most important thing for a defender.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/chelsea-defender-david-luiz-tells-jose-mourinho--i-dont-need-to-prove-anything-8839253.html

[bababoom 4,478]

Deserves to be dropped, been so poor this season. Cahill may not be as talented as Luiz but he's far more reliable.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I know he hasnt been in great form of late but....

How many of those games were in midfield?

Whilst I'm not going to get to hung up on whoscored and their ratings system, let's put his 7.03 rating into context.

Terry - 7.4 (this season)

Oscar - 7.24

Cahill - 7.06

Luiz - 6.5

Discussing these ratings is a little pointless at times, but even by that measure he's had a severe downturn in form and looks like being dropped for a second time in the space of a few weeks. And there are plenty of fans who are pissed off about that bottled challenge.

[Barbara 15,149]

He probably had a kick up the arse after Cardiff, how many kicks up the arse does he want?

how many as necessary because you don't find a CB with his potential in every corner and once you have to chance to polish a player like him that's what you do. How many chances were Mata, Hazard, Cole, Lampard given this season despite playing shit at occasions? Were they making the same kind of mistake as Luiz? Some were. Cole didn't even bother to try to catch up his opponent in a few times he was overran, he has the least amount of tackes - successful or not - among all our defenders (he has less than Oscar!). Mata should have been more objective, but instead preferred the fancier pass and is yet to have a top class performance for us this season, Hazard only recently decided to turn up to matches, although he seems to be pondering about taking another break. The nature diverges a bit, and while with Cole and Lampard I blame Mourinho's stubbornness and also lack of much better replacements, Mata, Hazard and Luiz are kept because Mourinho thinks he needs to polish those players into what they need to be molded to. Mourinho is looking at the long term...

Maybe Luiz won't start tomorrow, but give what was our main problem Saturday and what he did in the pitch 95% of time, I'm not sure he had the kind of performance Mourinho had a problem with. I'm positive Mata won't start and I'm not entirely convinced Hazard will. Cole and Lampard shouldn't, but how much does Mourinho trust Mikel and Bertrand? I wouldn't be surprised by seeing Azpilicueta as a LB again. Oscar and Torres may be dropped as well, but whether he's dropped tomorrow or not, I see Mourinho insisting with Luiz despite of his mistakes in the long run because not only Luiz has rare technical quality in his position, but especially because Mourinho cherishes a lot that kind of defensive player - the kind that is technical and build instead of raffling the ball by trying to get rid of it as soon as possible.

Also his mistakes aren't costing our matches... the same can't be said about a few other players... yes, he cost us goals this seasons, others cost us points... we need a bit of patience.

What I think Mourinho will do and I completely support him is: he'll play Cahill in the big matches - like tomorrow - and he'll stick with Luiz in EPL especially given the oppositions we're facing until Christmas. As Luiz progresses, Cahill will be less used in the big matches until he's back into the player he is: a squad member. If Luiz can't improve in a whole season, then I see us going for another CB next summer, but Mourinho won't give up on him as fast as you think (or implied) he should. He'll give him plenty of chances and kicks in the arse and will exhaust his efforts with him.