Politics & Stuff

[Rmpr 8,977]

@CHOULO19, it is ready!

http://forum.talkchelsea.net/topic/13128-politics-stuff/?p=619737

P.S: I should really proof read it and organise all the ideas, but I am just too lazy to do so. I didnt even say half of what I wanted, but just got too tired of writing and it would be longer than it already is. I basically focused on the economic aspect of it (because it is the biggest), but there is more. I also mentioned the lack of freedom, but didnt gave in depth info.

[Backstreet09 499]

What about Hitler and Mussolini?

Sorry for interrupting but Hitler was a nice bloke , Russians bullied him and he had to commit suicide with his love .

[bushman 2,043]

R.I.P.

I support everyone who stands up against USA and their corrupted Israel friends.

May I ask why do you support anyone who is against the good old USA ?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

same can be said about North Korea with the late kim jong ill. Called brainwashing, and dumbing the citizens down.

Brainwashing? He never had the power, at least in his beginnings, to brainwash anyone unlike ill. He's a common man who made it to presidency through a morning TV show! Even after he became president he didn't need to brainwash anyone because the majority of the people (the poor) adored him. When you give thousands of homeless people houses and an education they would have never dreamed of, they're going to vote for you.

Besides, Venezuella has the most democratic elections in the world- Jim Carter's description, not mine. Candidates have the exact same tv and radio time to ensure equal exposure and two days before the elections, no one is allowed to speak the media or advertise himself to ensure that the people's choice is free. Heck even alcohol is not allowed to be sold a day before the elections!

You want to see brainwashing? Switch over to FOX!

[CHOULO19 24,332]

What about Hitler and Mussolini?

Don't think you can objectively judge those two, especially Hitler, now. Had they won the war, they would have wrote history and the biggest evil in history would have been capitalism, Churchill and Truman.

PS: I'll reply to your long post tonight. I have some studying to do now.

[Rmpr 8,977]

Don't think you can objectively judge those two, especially Hitler, now. Had they won the war, they would have wrote history and the biggest evil in history would have been capitalism, Churchill and Truman.

PS: I'll reply to your long post tonight. I have some studying to do now.

No it wouldnt. Is capitalism loved because it won the Cold War? People still keep their opinion, even it not being the dominant force...

Also, I was giving more expample of politicians who were loved and had no reasons to be so, aka Chavez.

[SinineUltra 1,170]

Pablo pushed drugs. Chavez berefted other people´s companies. What´s the diff ?

I might have masked my first comment a bit too much. Pablo Escobar was in an illegal business but used his fortune to help people in poverty. In return he gained loyal followers, extra ears and eyes so to say to keep him safe and aware of his surroundings. That's what Chavez did, supported the poorer people and gained their admiration. The difference between them two is that one of them was an official and legal authority in form of President and the other was a outlaw who fought against Colombian government and law enforcements.

I wasn't trying to say one is better than the other. Just that their motives and aims were comparable and many characteristic similarities could be drawn.

[bushman 2,043]

I might have masked my first comment a bit too much. Pablo Escobar was in an illegal business but used his fortune to help people in poverty. In return he gained loyal followers, extra ears and eyes so to say to keep him safe and aware of his surroundings. That's what Chavez did, supported the poorer people and gained their admiration. The difference between them two is that one of them was an official and legal authority in form of President and the other was a outlaw who fought against Colombian government and law enforcements.

I wasn't trying to say one is better than the other. Just that their motives and aims were comparable and many characteristic similarities could be drawn.

Both were crooks. Pablo was a drug dealer & Chavez appropriated companies. Nationalization is not something to be proud of.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

No it wouldnt. Is capitalism loved because it won the Cold War? People still keep their opinion, even it not being the dominant force...

Also, I was giving more expample of politicians who were loved and had no reasons to be so, aka Chavez.

History takes the side of the winner, it always does. It's easy to say how morally repugnant Hitler's philosophy is but at that time each side was convinced in his own philosophy that was naturally valid to him.

[Rmpr 8,977]

History takes the side of the winner, it always does. It's easy to say how morally repugnant Hitler's philosophy is but at that time each side was convinced in his own philosophy that was naturally valid to him.

Have you read his book? Try...

I agree the winner gets more 'love', just look at what Hollywood did to the Holocaust (even though way more Russians died and suffered in WW2). However, I am pretty sure general neutral intelligent people will agree he was anything but good. Capitalism is the dominant force, but just because it won it doesnt mean people like and accept it, they still have the right to fight for something better. Socialists didnt change their mind because they lost!

All I am saying is that the love Chavez is getting means fuck all. Half of them go just for the sake of going and the other half give him credit for what he didnt do (since they are constantly brainwashed by TV). It happens everywhere really, just like Americans think they are free (this is the most hilarious really).

[Rmpr 8,977]

@CHOULO19,

I still have to write about other aspects of his goverment, like social impact, lack of freedom and maintenance of power, since I barely touched those aspects. However, I think it is already big enough, so I will wait for us to discuss the economy first before moving on.

Just take your time mate, dont feel the obligation to answer quickly!

P.S: Lets go Chelsea!

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I am pretty sure general neutral intelligent people will agree he was anything but good.

But that's the point. Intelligent people did agree with him. In fact half the world did. To say that all who supported Nazi Germany was unintelligent does not make sense because they included some of the best scientists, doctors, engineers..etc in the world.

Good and evil only exist in cartoons. No one puts evil plans to destroy the world and does an evil laugh. Countries and people act according to beliefs that suite them.

[Rmpr 8,977]

But that's the point. Intelligent people did agree with him. In fact half the world did. To say that all who supported Nazi Germany was unintelligent does not make sense because they included some of the best scientists, doctors, engineers..etc in the world.

Good and evil only exist in cartoons. No one puts evil plans to destroy the world and does an evil laugh. Countries and people act according to beliefs that suite them.

No, he got a massive support from the people, that is why he got where he did. He suffered 6 internal attacks from the generals that were aware of what he was doing...

People also support anyone else because of personal interests, and Hitler and Mussolini were fucking incredible at that!

One more thing, how can you agree with someone without reading their ideas? Does the Bibble ring a bell? It is all different ways to brainwash people. The ones who follow some line of thought without taking time to learn about it just dont deserve my respect.

Also, this is very naive to say the people who worked for him supported it. Most people (just like nowadays) just want to do their jobs and the only way to do it was/is to accept the terms of the one who has the resources. Do you think people who work at Cern, Nasa, Area 51, Room 39 and RAF trully know what is going on or agree with everything? However, how will they pursue their dream of following science careers if not there?

When I compare Hitler to Chavez, I was only refering to the love both get and how it doesnt translate into a good person. I have no intentions of breaking down Hitler's life or anything. We can do it, but it will just be another long boring discussion. All I want to make clear is that he is not only seen as a devil because he lost it, it does interfere, but it is not near as you explained. People do have their beliefs no matter who/what wins. Capitalism and Socialism is by far the biggest example I can find!

P.S: When I say good, I use the greek meaning of it. Not the new one... (sorry, didnt make it clear)

[SinineUltra 1,170]

History takes the side of the winner, it always does. It's easy to say how morally repugnant Hitler's philosophy is but at that time each side was convinced in his own philosophy that was naturally valid to him.

Exactly. How many actually still remember that Soviet Union switched sides during WW II? I know Nazi Germany attacked them but they also made peace with the allies.

[SinineUltra 1,170]

Have you read his book? Try...

I agree the winner gets more 'love', just look at what Hollywood did to the Holocaust (even though way more Russians died and suffered in WW2). However, I am pretty sure general neutral intelligent people will agree he was anything but good. Capitalism is the dominant force, but just because it won it doesnt mean people like and accept it, they still have the right to fight for something better. Socialists didnt change their mind because they lost!

All I am saying is that the love Chavez is getting means fuck all. Half of them go just for the sake of going and the other half give him credit for what he didnt do (since they are constantly brainwashed by TV). It happens everywhere really, just like Americans think they are free (this is the most hilarious really).

The reason why Soviet Union lost so many men during any war in their history is due to their tactics. A life of a human being cost/costs nothing in Soviet Union/Russia. They used to have commissars who shot anyone deserting so the soldiers had two choices: to die in the battle or get shot by the officers. One great example would be the battle of Stalingrad, the final assault by the Soviet Union was out of desperation, they only held a few strips of the city's territory near the river Volga and Stalin didn't want to lose a town with HIS name so he ordered a full scale assault on the last 200 000 Germans, who were left to die there by delusional Hitler.

[MetsajCFC 1,255]

I was like +2 on Y-axis and -2 on X-axis, in the upper left box (red) - I don't consider myself communist-minded person, far from it but that's what the test gave me, answered all questions accurately

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Both were crooks. Pablo was a drug dealer & Chavez appropriated companies. Nationalization is not something to be proud of.

Why?

[bushman 2,043]

Why?

Simple. You start some company & I come by & take it away from you.