nadavTKL 1,787 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 You both have great points, but it is not here that you both will agree on centuries of dispute and vengance!For me we are agreeing on almost everything, on the important things for sure. thing is im realy not an example for the "average Israeli". Far far from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorontoChelsea 4,064 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I dont know if it the exact numbers are true, but the difference beetwen deaths is absurd.Last big battle (2009) was 1300 Palestinians and 13 Israelis.This is actually true of pretty much all wars in the past 50 years and was perhaps true of most wars in history. War has become completely asymmetrical in virtually every way. It's no longer fought on battlefields between two relatively even fighting forces and hasn't been for a long time (probably since the Korean War). I'm pretty sick of the Palestinian-Israeli wars. Until both sides respect each others' right to exist, there simply will be no peace. It's a political conflict that both sides think that they can win militarily and they can't. It's amazing to me to continue to see people act as if they're just about to win or that the tide is turning so that they are close to achieving their goals (which are generally destruction of "the other"). It's not going to happen. The other side is not going to give up and thinking that they will is just ridiculous. They also both need to stop looking at the past and look to the future. If everyone in the world were obsessed about the past, there'd be unending wars in every single country. At some point, people have to care more about the future than the past. Also, the outside influences in the dispute are poisonous. If both sides got the support for peace that they get for war, there'd have been peace long ago. Rmpr and Amblève. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulham Broadway 17,350 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 laura90 and Spike 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave30 728 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Compared to usual i do think the media language has been more pro-Israel in the UK than it normally is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nadavTKL 1,787 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 "Busy" they it was, not only in Chelsea FC. First, in noon there was an explosive charge that blow up a bus in Tel Aviv, and there was 21 injured people. Hamas didnt done it i understand, but they did praise this attack. after that the attack in Gaza got stronger by isreal, but in 9PM they announced a cease-fire. but for now, there was 13 rockets that were sended from Gaza after the announcement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zolayes 14,489 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 dont usually get involved in the politics of the Middle East .....but imo the Israel -Palestine problem was caused by the UK government in 1947 or 1948memory so if year is wrong apologise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDN Blue 7,903 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I call them terrorists becuase i see how they talk, i see how they are acting, hiding on houses of citizans and schools to send theirrockets so we'll attack there.a Zionist? what do you mean by it?I can say that i do think we deserve to live in Israel, the sons of israel lived in those lands thousends of years ago, but i do belive Palestines have their right to demand to live here to. I belive in justice and i want Israel to be a quiet place to live in- so i belive in a solution of two states living on those lands. If you'll ask almost anyone in israel today, they'll say im not a "Zionist", but i dont realy care about those things. Its intresting for me to know why you asked that actually..Ah. Well I wanted to ask what exactly those who proclaim to be Zionists actually believe.. Hope you could've clarified for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rmpr 8,977 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 dont usually get involved in the politics of the Middle East .....but imo the Israel -Palestine problem was caused by the UK government in 1947 or 1948memory so if year is wrong apologiseIt was not CAUSED by UK, but you guys left the region without a proper agreement and this led to the civil war. It definetly did not help...At least it is partially resolved for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zolayes 14,489 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 It was not CAUSED by UK, but you guys left the region without a proper agreement and this led to the civil war. It definetly did not help...At least it is partially resolved for now.that really is what I meant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rmpr 8,977 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 that really is what I meantI know, I am trying to say it wasnt THAT big of a problem (UK leaving) as you seem to think (by reading your post). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zolayes 14,489 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 we left a situation that caused the problems that have cost thousands of deaths. For that I think we are culpable Rmpr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDN Blue 7,903 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 we left a situation that caused the problems that have cost thousands of deaths. For that I think we are culpableA common trend of British pursuit of imperialism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zolayes 14,489 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 A common trend of British pursuit of imperialism but we also did a lot of good ...I know from Africamust quote Mark Antony ..The evil men do lives after them ...the good is oft interred with their bones........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDN Blue 7,903 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 So it turns out Israel only agreed to a ceasefire because America bribed them with more defense aid. Smh..http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2012/11/21/israel-gaza-ceasefire-comes-with-pledge-from-obama-to-seek-more-defense-aid-for-israel/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHOULO19 24,332 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 It was not CAUSED by UK, but you guys left the region without a proper agreement and this led to the civil war. It definetly did not help...At least it is partially resolved for now.I'm sorry but it WAS caused by the UK. They started the Jewish immigration to the region and helped create the state Israel by funding and arming it. If it weren't for the likes of Belford and Sykes Israel would probably not exist or exist somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHOULO19 24,332 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I can say that i do think we deserve to live in Israel, the sons of israel lived in those lands thousends of years ago, I know this is a touchy subject so I would completely understand if you don't wish to answer. But why do you believe you have a right to live in Israel? Is it because your ancestors live there thousands of years ago or does it have something to do with religion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 12,049 Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 @CHOULO19,@nadavTKL, my ancestors are from England. I think David Cameron should kick immigrants and foreign expats off their land, out of their homes, so it can be given to me.If the sons of Israel get their own land, why shouldn't I; a son of England?Sounds terrible doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHOULO19 24,332 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 my ancestors are from England. I think David Cameron should kick immigrants and foreign expats off their land, out of their homes, so it can be given to me.If the sons of Israel get their own land, why shouldn't I; a son of England?Sounds terrible doesn't it?The thing is, not even the creator;s of Zionism completely bought this excuse either. They wanted a country for their own to escape the oppression they suffered in Europe and the location was not that important to them. In fact, Israel (although I imagine the name would have been different) was nearly created in Honduras or Seychelles before the Allies decided they needed a strong military ally in what is now know as the middle east when oil started being discovered in the region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulham Broadway 17,350 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Message from Gaza youth“Fuck Hamas. Fuck Israel. Fuck Fatah. Fuck UN. Fuck UNWRA. Fuck USA! We, the youth in Gaza, are so fed up with Israel, Hamas, the occupation, the violations of human rights and the indifference of the international community!“We want to scream and break this wall of silence, injustice and indifference like the Israeli F16s breaking the wall of sound; scream with all the power in our souls in order to release this immense frustration that consumes us because of this fucking situation we live in…“We are sick of being caught in this political struggle; sick of coal-dark nights with airplanes circling above our homes; sick of innocent farmers getting shot in the buffer zone because they are taking care of their lands; sick of bearded guys walking around with their guns abusing their power, beating up or incarcerating young people demonstrating for what they believe in; sick of the wall of shame that separates us from the rest of our country and keeps us imprisoned in a stamp-sized piece of land; sick of being portrayed as terrorists, home-made fanatics with explosives in our pockets and evil in our eyes; sick of the indifference we meet from the international community, the so-called experts in expressing concerns and drafting resolutions but cowards in enforcing anything they agree on; we are sick and tired of living a shitty life, being kept in jail by Israel, beaten up by Hamas and completely ignored by the rest of the world.“There is a revolution growing inside of us, an immense dissatisfaction and frustration that will destroy us unless we find a way of canalising this energy into something that can challenge the status quo and give us some kind of hope.“We barely survived the Operation Cast Lead, where Israel very effectively bombed the shit out of us, destroying thousands of homes and even more lives and dreams. During the war we got the unmistakable feeling that Israel wanted to erase us from the face of the Earth. During the last years, Hamas has been doing all they can to control our thoughts, behaviour and aspirations. Here in Gaza we are scared of being incarcerated, interrogated, hit, tortured, bombed, killed. We cannot move as we want, say what we want, do what we want.“ENOUGH! Enough pain, enough tears, enough suffering, enough control, limitations, unjust justifications, terror, torture, excuses, bombings, sleepless nights, dead civilians, black memories, bleak future, heart-aching present, disturbed politics, fanatic politicians, religious bullshit, enough incarceration! WE SAY STOP! This is not the future we want! We want to be free. We want to be able to live a normal life. We want peace. Is that too much to ask?” Amblève. and LDN Blue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rmpr 8,977 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I'm sorry but it WAS caused by the UK. They started the Jewish immigration to the region and helped create the state Israel by funding and arming it. If it weren't for the likes of Belford and Sykes Israel would probably not exist or exist somewhere else.No it was not caused, they have helped to situation to get very bad. However, if you both had peacefully accepted the terms of UN, none of this would have happened. So UK did not CAUSED it, but they have a big portion of the blame.The bold words does not help at all. It only change the place of the conflict. In what does it help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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