Politics & Stuff

[Barbara 15,149]

don't know if it's true or not, saw it at some friends' but there's this site with all sort of videos about what's going on there currently and in one of them a Palestine said that the Israeli went through a village or something at one evening and said they would attack there the following day and said people should leave so they weren't killed in the process. Then civilians were getting their stuff packed to leave and the Hamas soldiers came and told them if they left they'd kill them because they need to touch the world with their deaths when Israel attacked them.

I don't know what shocked me more - Israeli soldiers thinking that asking people to leave their houses make it okay for them to destroy them - or the Hamas ordering and threatening people to stay and probably die, just so their potential deaths shock and touch the world.

I ask if that's true because the audio of course wasn't in English and who knows who's translated that. In the site seemingly had videos pro-Israel and pro-Palestine (or against both, you decide). Either way there's a reason why I don't try to get too much informed about what really goes on in some places nowadays. The reality is too shocking for me and I don't know even 0.01% of what really goes on.

[The only place to be 11,313]

″Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it″.

Apparently that's in the Hamas Charter....and people wonder why Israel might be shooting rockets into Gaza.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

  On 24/07/2014 at 17:12, The only place to be said:

″Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it″.

Apparently that's in the Hamas Charter....and people wonder why Israel might be shooting rockets into Gaza.

you need to read a lot about the conflict and the history mate. Try Shlomo Sand, Naom Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein, Avi Shlaim, Miko Peled ( son of respectful Israeli General Mittityahu Peled. You will know more about the conflict.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/24/iraqi-christians-mosul-isis-convert-islam-or-be-executed

[The only place to be 11,313]

  On 24/07/2014 at 17:18, Mohammed Seif said:

you need to read a lot about the conflict and the history mate. Try Shlomo Sand, Naom Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein, Avi Shlaim, Miko Peled ( son of respectful Israeli General Mittityahu Peled. You will know more about the conflict.

So that's not part of the Hamas Charter then?

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

  On 24/07/2014 at 17:12, The only place to be said:

″Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it″.

Apparently that's in the Hamas Charter....and people wonder why Israel might be shooting rockets into Gaza.

We don't agree on a lot but this is something that we can agree on. Hamas is so evil and depraved of any sort of humanity that they'll use their children as bombs and human shields to provoke a retaliation and demonize Israel. Thank goodness even the Liberals in England are starting to wake up to this pattern of lies.

This is how Hamas rule in Gaza. With an iron fist.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

  On 24/07/2014 at 17:07, Barbara said:

don't know if it's true or not, saw it at some friends' but there's this site with all sort of videos about what's going on there currently and in one of them a Palestine said that the Israeli went through a village or something at one evening and said they would attack there the following day and said people should leave so they weren't killed in the process. Then civilians were getting their stuff packed to leave and the Hamas soldiers came and told them if they left they'd kill them because they need to touch the world with their deaths when Israel attacked them.

I don't know what shocked me more - Israeli soldiers thinking that asking people to leave their houses make it okay for them to destroy them - or the Ramas ordering and threatening people to stay and probably die, just so their potential deaths shock and touch the world.

I ask if that's true because the audio of course wasn't in English and who knows who's translated that. In the site seemingly had videos pro-Israel and pro-Palestine (or against both, you decide). Either way there's a reason why I don't try to get too much informed about what really goes on in some places nowadays. The reality is too shocking for me and I don't know even 0.01% of what really goes on.

Doesn't make sense to be honest because Hamas is not the type to try to get sympathy. In fact they're against all the victimizing of the Palestinian people because they're all for the propaganda that they are all powerful and fear no one. It's kind of a "my God is stronger than yours" religious extremist thing.

But if you can provide the audio, I'd be happy to translate it.

Generally speaking, Palestinians are VERY reluctant to leave their houses anywhere after millions were thrown out of theirs in 1948 to be replaced by Israelis and even since then Israel have methodically destroyed Palestinian houses to replace them with more settlements. To Palestinians, if they leave their house, they probably never return to it again.

  On 24/07/2014 at 17:18, MrExcalibur100 said:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/24/iraqi-christians-mosul-isis-convert-islam-or-be-executed

The evil that the US and it's allies in the area created. But you have to say, this is very similar to the Muslims and Christians having to evacuate most of Palestine in 1948 or get executed, right?

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

  On 24/07/2014 at 17:21, The only place to be said:

So that's not part of the Hamas Charter then?

Yes it is. If you bothered yourself and read the previous pages, you would have known for a fact that everyone here ( I am not excluding anyone) doesn't like Hamas and think they are terrorists. But if you bother yourself a bit more and read, you will also know that this isn't a religious matter like you are trying to imply mate. Seriously you need to get some knowledge about this.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

  On 24/07/2014 at 17:27, Mohammed Seif said:

Yes it is. If you bothered yourself and read the previous pages, you would have known for a fact that everyone here ( I am not excluding anyone) doesn't like Hamas and think they are terrorists. But if you bother yourself a bit more and read, you will also know that this isn't a religious matter like you are trying to imply mate. Seriously you need to get some knowledge about this.

So why did the Palestinians "democratically" vote for a terrorist organisation? Is it that they quietly agree with the ideology of ISIS or that they were unknowingly coerced to doing so or what exactly?

Also, what are your views on the Muslim Brotherhood, the organisation that created (or is an offshoot of) Hamas?

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

  On 24/07/2014 at 17:37, MrExcalibur100 said:

So why did the Palestinians "democratically" vote for a terrorist organisation? Is it that they quietly agree with the ideology of ISIS or that they were unknowingly coerced to doing so or what exactly?

Also, what are your views on the Muslim Brotherhood, the organisation that created (or is an offshoot of) Hamas?

James give it up. You have been trying so hard to take a swing at religion. You should know what you are talking about before you type anything. Go read some history and you will know what this is all about. You will also know who expelled the Jews out if from their land. Maybe you would be more humble. Also read about how this whole conflict started, then maybe, you can have a case to argue.

[twobanger 13]

No I wouldn't. I've already stated the difference is cultural. I would be hunting Hamas leadership for putting my family in a situation to be slaughtered for little gain other than photo-ops to show how mean Israel is.

Pragmatism is better than pride in this instance. Look at Japan and Germany. They were vanquished people with occupiers living amongst them. Where are they now, where would you think they would be if their response had been to form an insurgency?

[The only place to be 11,313]

  On 24/07/2014 at 17:27, Mohammed Seif said:

Yes it is. If you bothered yourself and read the previous pages, you would have known for a fact that everyone here ( I am not excluding anyone) doesn't like Hamas and think they are terrorists. But if you bother yourself a bit more and read, you will also know that this isn't a religious matter like you are trying to imply mate. Seriously you need to get some knowledge about this.

You have to be joking if you think that's the case, especially when people question 'the west's' view of this conflict.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

  On 24/07/2014 at 17:48, The only place to be said:

You have to be joking if you think that's the case, especially when people question 'the west's' view of this conflict.

What is the case then mate? Share your knowledge with us please.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

  On 24/07/2014 at 17:43, twobanger said:

No I wouldn't. I've already stated the difference is cultural. I would be hunting Hamas leadership for putting my family in a situation to be slaughtered for little gain other than photo-ops to show how mean Israel is.

Pragmatism is better than pride in this instance. Look at Japan and Germany. They were vanquished people with occupiers living amongst them. Where are they now, where would you think they would be if their response had been to form an insurgency?

You're not really getting what I'm saying. Hamas are bad, but they are very new to the struggle. Irrelevant of Hamas's existence or anything they fire at Israel, the Palestinians aren't allowed to exists since the inception of Israel and they are headed to being wiped off the map. They were slaughtered long before Hamas and they will continue to be slaughtered even if Hamas disappears into thin air.

You can't possibly compare them to Germany and Japan. No one wanted to erase Japan and Germany off the map.

[The only place to be 11,313]

  On 24/07/2014 at 17:49, Mohammed Seif said:

What is the case then mate? Share your knowledge with us please.

You can stop calling me mate any time you want.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

  On 24/07/2014 at 18:03, The only place to be said:

You can stop calling me mate any time you want.

You can put a solid argument any time you can mate

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

  On 24/07/2014 at 17:25, CHOULO19 said:

The evil that the US and it's allies in the area created. But you have to say, this is very similar to the Muslims and Christians having to evacuate most of Palestine in 1948 or get executed, right?

You can't blame the West for all the ills of Humanity. The Americans didn't make these people act like barbarians. They've abused the liberty of Saddam's demise to kill, murder, rape and mutilate.

[Dion 2,476]

  On 24/07/2014 at 17:04, MrExcalibur100 said:

And where is Hamas in all of this? Hamas is the main conspirator pulling the strings behind the scenes. I've already posted their charter which says their goal is to obliterate Israel from existence. This is why they continually shoot rockets into Israel to kill civilians and in hope of a retaliation from the IDF. This is how this new conflict as well as the others began. Hamas is a very radical and evil organisation and they are the problem and not the solution. The fact that they were "democratically" elected is proven by history to be irrelevant. Even Hitler and the Nazi's were democratically elected and the rest is history. Fatah at least recognizes Isreal's right to exist. I think at least this is a much better alternative to Hamas whose ideology is fueled by Jew hatred. They will never be at peace with the Jews because they don't want to. The Palestinian's are just collateral damage the same way the German citizens were under the Nazi regime.

All the problem with what you're saying is that collateral damage implies unintended murder of civilians, which doesn't seem to be the case according to the information brought onto this thread. What it looks like to be occurring is Israel using Hamas as an excuse to indiscriminately kill palestinians. Their actions doesn't match their words. If they were truly concerned about Hamas only, this wouldn't be their course of action. What appears to be happening is that they want to wipe palestinians from the face of the planet and Hamas is giving them "justification" to do so.