Politics & Stuff

[Stingray 9,441]

Hamas uses those kids as human shields:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=802664019758029

I miss so much context here. What is that guy saying? Why is it a mortar and not a rocket? Where and when is this? Is this indeed a human shield? Id even like a translation from someone who speaks arab on here (Choulo, Mohammed?)

If it is i find it repulsive, I really do and I already said I think Hamas is an extremist organization that does not deserve any praise whatsoever- but again i think the same about people who bomb children. Also, who put Hamas there to counter PLO? I refer back to The Gatekeepers where the Shin Bet guy acknowledges they supported them to get in the way of the PLO. Now what?

Also: You keep on saying palestines=Hamas in your arguments. We disagree on this.

this is also interesting on human shields (Gawker):

"The concept of a human shield is simple: In lieu of an actual shield, or other defensive resource, a combatant protects his positions by relying on his enemy's reluctance to kill noncombatants. "You can kill me if you like, but you will also kill this child, which your moral and legal precepts prevent." The attacking party, faced with a choice between killing civilians and tolerating the persistence of a legitimate military target, chooses not to strike. The target is thereby shielded from attack. (Hamas' utter lack of moral and legal precepts with respect to civilian casualties renders such a choice moot for them.)

This arrangement breaks down when the attacking party decides to go ahead and kill noncombatants anyway. The "shield" element fails. Which is why Netanyahu's use of the term "human shield" is imprecise. You don't get to call them shields after you've decided to kill them. The number of those people identified by Israel as combatants is unclear, but as of two days ago CBS News reported that roughly 60% of those killed by IDF operations in Gaza thus far were civilians.They obviously did not make an effective shield. We should stop calling them that.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

I miss so much context here. What is that guy saying? Why is it a mortar and not a rocket? Where and when is this? Is this indeed a human shield? Id even like a translation from someone who speaks arab on here (Choulo, Mohammed?)

If it is i find it repulsive, I really do and I already said I think Hamas is an extremist organization that does not deserve any praise whatsoever- but again i think the same about people who bomb children. Also, who put Hamas there to counter PLO? I refer back to The Gatekeepers where the Shin Bet guy acknowledges they supported them to get in the way of the PLO. Now what?

Also: You keep on saying palestines=Hamas in your arguments. We disagree on this.

this is also interesting on human shields (Gawker):

"The concept of a human shield is simple: In lieu of an actual shield, or other defensive resource, a combatant protects his positions by relying on his enemy's reluctance to kill noncombatants. "You can kill me if you like, but you will also kill this child, which your moral and legal precepts prevent." The attacking party, faced with a choice between killing civilians and tolerating the persistence of a legitimate military target, chooses not to strike. The target is thereby shielded from attack. (Hamas' utter lack of moral and legal precepts with respect to civilian casualties renders such a choice moot for them.)

This arrangement breaks down when the attacking party decides to go ahead and kill noncombatants anyway. The "shield" element fails. Which is why Netanyahu's use of the term "human shield" is imprecise. You don't get to call them shields after you've decided to kill them. The number of those people identified by Israel as combatants is unclear, but as of two days ago CBS News reported that roughly 60% of those killed by IDF operations in Gaza thus far were civilians.They obviously did not make an effective shield. We should stop calling them that.

First of all it is not Hamas. Apparently it is someone Syrian telling Bashar Al Asad that one day these kids will grow up and bring victory to the people. i.e metephorically saying that no matter how long Bashar stays and keeps killing people a younger generation will bring justice to the Syrians one day. He is also blaming other countries ( with the choice of words hinting Arabs) for standing by and watching what is happening to the Syrian people without taking any action. Nothing to do with Hamas. Apparently it is the Syrian resistance.

[Stingray 9,441]

First of all it is not Hamas. Apparently it is someone Syrian telling Bashar Al Asad that one day these kids will grow up and bring victory to the people. i.e metephorically saying that no matter how long Bashar stays and keeps killing people a younger generation will bring justice to the Syrians one day. He is also blaming other countries ( with the choice of words hinting Arabs) for standing by and watching what is happening to the Syrian people without taking any action. Nothing to do with Hamas. Apparently it is the Syrian resistance.

@CFC_4EVER, Ouch. Propaganda much?

Also on the "they said no to our peace offer" or "their only condition for a ceasefire has been (since the beginning) that Hamas stop all rocket attacks upon our country."

Wrong. They also demand that the IDF be allowed to establish a "buffer zone" which translates to Israelis stealing more land in the name of "security." In fact, most "reasonable" deals the Israelis offer include demands for more and more Palestinian land and want Palestinians to acquiesce on the illegal settlements.

Guess you don't hear that from Bennett or read that on IDF twitter, right?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Hamas uses those kids as human shields:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=802664019758029

That is in Syria Dude, at least try not to look like a propaganda!

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Let's face it, Muslims living in the big cities in Israel are much more well off than Shia Muslims who get murdered regularly by Sunni's for being the "wrong" kind of Muslim. Same thing in Pakistan to where the Shia's are anything but safe and live in constant fear. Or you think Saudi Arabia is such a "nice" place to live? Where Muslims are killed outright if they choose to depart from the faith and adulterers are stoned to death? Get real.

OMG, stop, PLEASE. This is just so wrong and so offensively stereotypical. Seriously, just STOP!

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are just misinformed about the region and not trying to say that Muslims are so barbaric that they are better off living being bombed by Israel than living with each other. It is only very small extremists groups that don't accept the differences between Shia and Sunnis. To generalize like this would be like saying all Christians are Neo-Nazis. My mom is Sunni and my Shiite! All historians and Sheikhs agree that the issues between the two are political than religious.

And are you seriously comparing outdated laws (in frankly largely uneducated cultures) that the vast majority of the people there actually agree with, with being deprived of the basic human rights such as food, water, shelter and freedom and being racially discriminated against harassed on a daily basis?!

I know you are only trying to debate, but PLEASE get some context to what you're saying!

[Fulham Broadway 16,920]

I don't know if i need to laugh or to be sad about what you just said. they are terrorist this is fact, you are saying they send those 13 armed people this morning towards Israeli village to ask for "normal life?" or to kill them?

It is a reaction, like the Jewish heroes with handmade weapons in tunnels in the Warsaw ghetto. Believe me it is almost certain in the future, the palestinians, whatever label you want to put on them, will be known throughout the world as Freedom fighters, when history is written.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

Well to talk to them of course. Believe me it is almost certain in the future, the palestinians, whatever label you want to put on them, will be known throughout the world as Freedom fighters, when history is written.

And liberators of their stolen lands.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

OMG, stop, PLEASE. This is just so wrong and so offensively stereotypical. Seriously, just STOP!

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are just misinformed about the region and not trying to say that Muslims are so barbaric that they are better off living being bombed by Israel than living with each other. It is only very small extremists groups that don't accept the differences between Shia and Sunnis. To generalize like this would be like saying all Christians are Neo-Nazis. My mom is Sunni and my Shiite! All historians and Sheikhs agree that the issues between the two are political than religious.

And are you seriously comparing outdated laws (in frankly largely uneducated cultures) that the vast majority of the people there actually agree with, with being deprived of the basic human rights such as food, water, shelter and freedom and being racially discriminated against harassed on a daily basis?!

I know you are only trying to debate, but PLEASE get some context to what you're saying!

I'll let the first part slide because you said you're not a Muslim. The second part is way off. Again. Arabs are denied basic human rights in Haifa and Tel Aviv? Can you please prove that Muslims as a whole are a denied food, water, shelter and freedom? Arabs are FULL citizens. They share the same basic rights as Jews (believe it or not) They are represented in every branch of government. Arabs are present in the Knesset. It's incredible you type that.

Now can you show me ANY Muslim majority country where a Jew is allowed to hold authority over a Muslim? It's infact forbidden in the Sharia. Are Jews able to practice their religion in most Muslim majority countries today? Are Jews given (what's left of them) any basic human rights in any Muslim majority country today? What happened to the powerful Jewish tribes of Saudi Arabia prior to Muhammad? I'll answer that one. They either got exterminated or driven out. What about the Christians in Pakistan, are they able to preach about Jesus freely without fear of death, like this?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/22/world/asia/pakistan-attack/

The Copts? The Christians in Nigeria's North? What happened to THEIR human rights and how come no other Muslim country in the world can offer the courtesy the Jews offer the Arabs in Israel?

Are Jews and Christians not second class citizens in Muslim majority countries under Dhimmi status having to pay the Muslim HUMILIATING Jizya? (which is nothing more than a form of extortion akin to the racketeering cash in Godfather movies ). Are Jews, Christians, Atheists, Pagans even allowed to set foot in Mecca? If not, why not? Muslims are persecuting people specifically Christians more than any group by FAR today but no protests or rallies in the Muslim world. I wonder why.

Dhimmi status as authorized by the Sharia is second class status for Jews and Christians in the Muslim world.

This last comment of yours just buried your point (or lack thereof), Choulo You obviously don't have a clue what goes on in Israel.

[Fulham Broadway 16,920]

To compare this to what happened in the ghetto is a very wrong thing to do sorry to tell you. we are not trying to kill all the Palestinians we just want to live in our country quietly "To be a free nation in our land" like the line in our national anthem says.

I wish in the future the silence of war will stop from both sides and you'll come to visit Israel and we can talk on other things like Chelsea line up etc...

Yes, it is true it is not the same situation you are right. I dont believe israelis are in the main wanting to see the annihilation of all the Palestinians. I apologise for that comparison. However, the desperation of the people is the same. They are not motivated by evil, or wanting to be the bad guy. These are fucking desperate, hurting people.

States beleive it or not often need 'terrorists', for control of their citizens, justifying austerity and surveillance, and promoting their own agenda and ideology. States will also artificially create terror- Russians in Chechnya, for instance. In the 1970s the Bologna railway bomb, it eventually came out the Italian state did it to discredit the communists and sway public opinion. Britain did it in India, and Israel with the blowing up of the King David Hotel.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

The Islamophobia is strong in this thread... Nice one you Zionist scum.

Now this is the kind of stuff that gets people banned. Petty name calling. I doubt anyone here is actually a "Zionist". Or did you mean Jew? Oh, that will be racist now won't it? If you don't like the opinions of others, just ignore them or shut it because petty name calling is not going to get you anywhere. It's the sign of a lost argument. Next to your name is an American flag. Freedom of speech and all. I expect better.

[Kieran. 6,317]

Now this is the kind of stuff that gets people banned. Petty name calling. I doubt anyone here is actually a "Zionist". Or did you mean Jew? Oh, that will be racist now won't it? If you don't like the opinions of others, just ignore them or shut it because petty name calling is not going to get you anywhere. It's the sign of a lost argument. Next to your name is an American flag. Freedom of speech and all. I expect better.

You're on my ignore list you loser.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

You're on my ignore list you loser.

Well be my guest then. You're quick to accuse the Jews of being baby killers but as soon as I start to point out some little home truths you start calling people Zionists and complaining about Islamophobia. Stop being a victim. If it's "Islamophobic" to point out home truths about the plight of Christians in Muslim majority countries then it's anti-semitic to accuse Jews on this board that their people are baby killers especially since I've we've seen from both sides, it's a highly debatable and controversial assertion. I think the Jews have on this board have a right to be offended by that seeing as all of them disagree with that contention.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

Those words was meant to me. I'm a Jewish Israeli this is where i was born and I'm proud of that. I served 3 years in the IDF like any other Israeli anyone have problem with it? saying racist sentences will not help. the Jewish people suffered it throughout the history attempts of killing us all but they all failed and we will have to protect our self forever because even today there is a lot of people in the world how want to achieve the same goal. we'll make sure we won't see another holocaust EVER AGAIN.

There's nothing being proud of where you were born.

[Stingray 9,441]

It's the sign of a lost argument.

Nah that would you and CFC-4ever not replying to the content. Ive never seen you answer to an article put on, a documentary, .... we did btw always addressed your issues. Unlike what you preach around here.

Plus: he did in fact really say he didn't think Palestinians and israelis were equal. I challenge you to answer the same question: are they equal in your eyes?

This is the crux of the matter ..... what it all boils down too. I feel a lot of issues has been addressed properly, but i do not think you put forth a good case

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

The Islamophobia is strong in this thread... Nice one you Zionist scum.

Same non sense gets repeated all the time. It actually becomes amusing.

[Stingray 9,441]

If it's "Islamophobic" to point out home truths about the plight of Christians in Muslim majority countries

You do know the faith of Christian Palestines in occupied territory? ITS THE SAME.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

We are not equal because we uses weapons to protect our children while Hamas uses children to protect their weapons that's a very very big different.

Based on the Syrian video you posted? LOL

[Kieran. 6,317]

Islamophobes defending their Islamophobia... Nothing sadder.