Politics & Stuff

[Fulham Broadway 16,390]

The word 'terrorist' is used by so many oppressive regimes to justify state murder.

The South African state called Nelson Mandela and the fighters against apartheid 'terrorists' for decades. The SS called the freedom fighters in the Warsaw ghetto 'terrorists'. the British called ghandi a 'terrorist'.

One mans "terrorist" is another mans Freedom Fighter.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

There is nothing to think of mate. You can't make peace with those who want you dead those who don't recognizance the right of the only Jewish country in the world to be exist. You can't make peace with terror organisation. As you know we have peace with some of our neighbors for many years! FACT - we gave up for the all Sinai area who is much bigger than israel for peace with Egypt, we are living with peace with Jordan too and there is more examples of stories like that in history. but, unfortunately it's impossible to make peace with Hamas. Again I don't have problem with Arabs i have problem with terror! and Hamas is a terror organisation it's a FACT!

Sinai was never yours mate. You had to leave after the Bar Lev defense line that was claimed to be the strongest ever was destroyed and fell in our hands. Not to mention that the losses Israel endured were more than the 1948, 1956 and 1967 combined. Egypt did that with weapons from ww2 technology and after we lost 80% of our air power. So not going for peace was going to cause more trouble.

If Israel doesn't take proper peace approaches, this will happen over and over again with Hamas. That will keep bringing your debts higher and economy worse forcing Israelis to go somewhere else. The aid from other countries will not last for long. I don't like Hamas what so ever. I think they are extremist as much as the Isrealis who are pro war are. But you have Fateh. You could have achieved peace through them years ago. Hence forcing Hamas to back down and eventually dissolve. But that ain't the approach. You keep crushing them and oppressing them economically and militarily, forcing more to sympathize with them and join. You think this way you will be secure and the Palestinians will become like the native Americans. Time has proved that this will not happen. You tried wars with Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Palestine. The only peace you achieved was with Egypt and that came due to very high costs you had to pay. As an Israeli, how many people would you like to sacrifice to get security that cannot be achieved by violence? You will keep losing lives and you will not achieve security as long as your approach is through violence. You could achieve that security and recognition through REAL talks. You don't really have to go through all this bloodshed.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

You missed the main part, After a war we won the Sinai area we bring that part to you for peace. We can accept high coast for peace, In 2003 our army forced he's own people out from places that Hamas is shooting on us right now you forgot that don't you?

Again the Peace talks with Hamas will be useless it's like talking to a wall they want us dead and they want all our country and they won't compromise we can't have serious talks with Them end of story! They will have to learn that we will heat them back every time we will defend our self's and if needed soldiers will be in Gaza soon, our army will use all the power that necessary to bring the quiet on our city's. I hope this time we will heat them hard enough to stop the fire for much longer time. I wished i could talk with you more guys but i'm starting to be tired from all those talks. I will say one simple and important sentence - When Israel will be quiet Gaza will be quiet too.

You invaded Egypt in 1967 and OCCUPIED Sinai. You took part of it back in 1973. We were forced into peace talks as Golda Meir was scared that we will get to Tel Aviv. The U.S. came to your aid to stop us from progressing. Cease fire was called and you were FORCED to give back the rest of Sinai, to avoid anymore of the Egyptian wrath. We allowed you to retreat on a scheduled time line.

Never did I say you should talk with Hamas. I percisely said Fateh. But instead you made Fateh look useless and that gave Hamas more credibility. People started saying the talks are always not working since that the Isreali governments keep putting harsh terms. So they say "fine they are not interested, they are stalling and showing the world that they are talking but the truth is they are just doing nothing". Isreal created Hamas indirectly through the oppression of the Palestinians. You want them to go away, then all you have to do is show them that violence will not help them achieve anything for the Palestinians. You show them that by talking with Fateh and ACHIEVING something for a change. That will make the case of Hamas weaker. But to think that through such violence you will stop them, that is an illusion. You make their beliefs stronger and allow them to seek more violence. Sooner or later they will do MUCH more damage than you can imagine if you keep thinking this way. But I guess you don't really care since that you are ready to sacrifice as much lives as you can to achieve an unachievable peace through violence.

[Fulham Broadway 16,390]

I want all of you.. to suggest what Israel needs to do.. How to deal with Hamas??

Well there are several concessions that could go a long way toward peace, though I dont expect you to agree.

Israel could give up some of the 262 illegal settlements on Palestinian land. It could release some of the 5283 Palestinians imprisoned without trial. Israel could rebuild some of the 28 000 Palestinian houses it has demolished.

Israel could also adhere to some of the 79 UN resolutions that it has broken. Just doing a few of these things would be human, and go some way to creating peace and appeasing hamas imo.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Ha ha ha...

Right, They started to fire missiles on us, and we need to sit and do nothing.

You can't seriously take this last 'battle' separately and completely out of context like this. We both know who 'started' the whole conflict if you go back and who was living peacefully and who brought in people from all over the world to kick them out of their homes and take their places. But let's forget all that for second and look at the living conditions of these people and what drove them to launch these rockets.

The living conditions for the Palestinians resemble so much the stereotypical conditions of oppressed people living without their freedom that at times I feel it's bordering on funny! You know those bad American action movies or that episode of Kim Possible? Where the hero travels to the future and finds that the evil dictator has taken over the world and everyone is being oppressed by his large and powerful army that monitors and controls everything? It's really funny/tragic how much the living conditions of the Palestinians looks like some footage out of those movies.

They live in an open air prison. Their whole area is surrounded by kilometers and kilometers of high prison walls with sniper towers in them:

They live in grossly over-crowded neighborhoods in below poverty levels (Gaza is one of the highest population density in the world with about 5000 people per squared Km). The Israeli government controls everything in their in lives, from the amount of water, gas and fuel they can consume to when they can and can't have electrical power. But even that, they are not allowed to have peacefully with civilian houses being destroyed on regular basis and it's inhabitants made homeless (over 60,000 demolished houses IIRC) to be replaced by more illegal settlements:

And if that is not enough they are constantly under methodical racist segregation and harassment. They have their number one source of income, olive trees, uprooted regularly by the IDF:

They can be arrested whenever the army likes and for whatever reason or even without one. They can be detained indefinitely and without trail. When they are trialed, they are prosecuted using military law not the Israeli civilian laws. Forget trials and laws, in some mixed areas, Palestinians are even forced to take different roads!

On the other hand, Israeli settlers get away with abusing and beating Palestinians on a regular basis. Every year, tens of Palestinians are assaulted, shot and even killed by Israeli settlers. They are treated worse than animals and no one does anything about it.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg. The atrocities against Palestinians are countless. And they are only getting worse. Every year they are losing more land, losing more of what's left of their basic rights of living. You see, as much as I hate Zionism, I just have to respect the intelligence of how Zionists go about their business. Because you can't erase the people of a whole nation in a single war, and they know that. But over a hundred years you can slowly take their land, slowly decrease their numbers in the country, slowly take away their rights, slowly take away the support they get from the neighboring nations and the empathy they get from foreigners, very slowly dehumanize them with your propaganda until everyone, including yourself, don't believe they are equal humans anymores. And in another hundred years or two they would probably have succeeded in getting rid of all the Palestinians in the country and would most likely have set their target on further expanding their boundaries. From the Nile to the Euphrates, right?

The people of Palestine have two choices and no third: To resist or to simply cease to exist. But, this is not a movie. Unfortunately, the resistance cannot be led by a perfect Platonic hero (or Kim Possible and genetically enhanced rats). It is, and has always been, led by people that far from perfect. But these incredibly corrupt people change and have changed many times, but what your government knows and tries to convince you otherwise, is that the resistance will continue long after Fateh and Hamas as long as there are Palestinians. Because the resistance is an idea and a choice of the people, not only that, it is their only choice.

So, to get back to the current ongoing events, NO, the air strikes on Gaza CANNOT stop the rockets, they simply cannot just like they couldn't in the countless wars and invasions in both Lebanon and Palestine in the past 40-50 years. And your government knows this, but that is not their objective that's just their alibi. Let's put things into perspective a bit (because that always seems to be missing when talking about this conflict):

Just like in the movies, the army enforcing this oppression and these racist norms (can't really call them laws) are ridiculously over-armed with all the state-of-the-art weapons, tanks, warplanes and warships and even nuclear weapons of mass destruction while the resistance has old riffles and weapons which they have themselves developed.Since the start of this last battle, the resistance rockets have caused ZERO Israeli causalities! While the death toll from the Israeli airstrikes has exceeded 100 in less than a week, the vast majority of which are civilians and half of them are women and children. The strikes have been mainly targeted at civilian house with some strikes even aimed at a couple of hospitals, the red crescent (equivalent of red cross), and even the media.

So, again, NO, this attack on Gaza is NOT aimed at stopping the rockets. It's aim is to terrorize the Palestinians a bit more, to destroy a little more Palestinian houses, to kill more Palestinians, to violate a bit more what's left of their rights. This attack is, like every battle before it for the past 70 years, like almost every Zionist action and plan in the past 120 years, it is that tiny little step forward towards a racist Jewish only state in all of the "Promised Land".

THAT is the truth as I see it.

[haranr 485]

Well there are several concessions that could go a long way toward peace, though I dont expect you to agree.

Israel could give up some of the 262 illegal settlements on Palestinian land. It could release some of the 5283 Palestinians imprisoned without trial. Israel could rebuild some of the 28 000 Palestinian houses it has demolished.

Israel could also adhere to some of the 79 UN resolutions that it has broken. Just doing a few of these things would be human, and go some way to creating peace and appeasing hamas imo.

Okay. I agree with some but why should Israel release 5283 who have broken the law? Some of them are very dangerous and Israel in the past have released a lot. Elaborate on the UN resolutions Israel has broken. Tell me why they had broken it and then elaborate on the ones the Palestines had broken... You probably don't know too much about that.

[Stingray 9,441]

I WILL REPEAT: IF ISRAEL WILL BE QUIET GAZA WILL BE QUIET TOO

Watch that movie please: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10153371313967316

If you want to know what Israel needs to do every time Hamas is shooting i will tell you

My opinion is: as long as Hamas IS shooting on Israel we will stop imminently to provide Gaza food electricity and gas. as long as they shooting we will hurt them until they will have to stop, every "Sahid" will get death punishment immediately! They want to fight? they will suffer harder every time! they want quiet? all they need to do is stop shooting. But it's only my opinion that's all and it's doesn't look out government will do it unfortunately .

Jawohl Herr Fuhrer.

[haranr 485]

Against what exactly? And you're calling me the fool. Sorry, I'm not going to dignify your 'reply' with a response any further tbh.

No. I know there is what to protest about I just want to know exactly what you think......

[haranr 485]

Who is terrorist and who isn't depends only on who is telling the story. Same concept as "barbarians" throughout history.

This is not correct! There is a precised definition of a 'terrorist'.

[haranr 485]

Can we plz keep it in english. Its getting too frequent imo.

No problem but it really doesn't get too frequent here ...

[Stingray 9,441]

No problem but it really doesn't get too frequent here ...

Lol you guys were checking your political agenda - even one of the first posts said you needed to be togehter despite being more left or right. Comon. Im not a moron.

תעבור למרכז שמאל.

אני לא מתכוון להתווכח איתך אבל להיות קשור לימין זו טעות.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

I WILL REPEAT: IF ISRAEL WILL BE QUIET GAZA WILL BE QUIET TOO

Watch that movie please: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10153371313967316

If you want to know what Israel needs to do every time Hamas is shooting i will tell you

My opinion is: as long as Hamas IS shooting on Israel we will stop imminently to provide Gaza food electricity and gas. as long as they shooting we will hurt them until they will have to stop, every "Sahid" will get death punishment immediately! They want to fight? they will suffer harder every time! they want quiet? all they need to do is stop shooting. But it's only my opinion that's all and it's doesn't look out government will do it unfortunately .

You really ought to learn from Moshe Dayan and Golda Meir. Their stubbornness got them no where. Again and for the THIRD time, leave Hamas out of your equation and try to achieve something real with Fateh and the leader of the Palestinians Abbas. Maybe then Israel will feel safer, people in Gaza's life improve (though that needs A LOT of real efforts and financial support) and Hamas will dissolve. But you are going to ignore what I said about Fateh for the fourth time and focus on Hamas right? lol

[haranr 485]

Like killing his own noble countrymen such as Yitzhak Rabin?

Again, Islam extremists are the worst simply because the 'Quran' encourages 'demolishing' anyone who isn't Muslim. (Except for the Jews actually but that is irreverent for this situation.)

[yuvala 2,167]

I WILL REPEAT: IF ISRAEL WILL BE QUIET GAZA WILL BE QUIET TOO

Watch that movie please: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10153371313967316

If you want to know what Israel needs to do every time Hamas is shooting i will tell you

My opinion is: as long as Hamas IS shooting on Israel we will stop imminently to provide Gaza food electricity and gas. as long as they shooting we will hurt them until they will have to stop, every "Sahid" will get death punishment immediately! They want to fight? they will suffer harder every time! they want quiet? all they need to do is stop shooting. But it's only my opinion that's all and it's doesn't look out government will do it unfortunately .

This kind of thinking will not get us anywhere..

There are innocent people and we cant just "strike them harder" everytime, we're talking about human beings here (even if they support Hamas).

Making life harder for the Palestinians will only cause more resistance, we need to make their life BETTER.

The pronlem is that I really dont think there can ever be peace with Hamas. With the palestinians in general - yes, not the Hamas though..

[Jype 6,398]

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

Again, Islam extremists are the worst simply because the 'Quran' encourages 'demolishing' anyone who isn't Muslim. (Except for the Jews actually but that is irreverent for this situation.)

Biggest lie ever .

[Stingray 9,441]

Again, Islam extremists are the worst simply because the 'Quran' encourages 'demolishing' anyone who isn't Muslim. (Except for the Jews actually but that is irreverent for this situation.)

Completely untrue. Also untrue in the Talmud or the Christian scriptures. I really dare you to challenge me about The Holy Texts.

You love to mention the holocaust every time don't you?

Sorry to tell you but It's ridiculous thing to do

Actually i really dont. I had family in the Camps. But i do teach psychology and the psychology Hannah Arendt or Primo Levi introduced should show you to way not to do things.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

Hamas and Fateh and Jihad are the same for me Hamas is controlling Gaza strip now so i will focus on him.

LOL. If you can't really differentiate between them, then God help you cause all three are different. Not to mention that jihad is not even a group