Politics & Stuff

[Stingray 9,441]

This is why we all love Islam.

Wow. Your true colours are suddenly showing....

Plz also check your facts on the ways Palestina was occupied and colonialised.

This was not a peacefull process. Also, after violating the original (imposed to palestines) un territorial agreements Israël keept taking land by force (condemned btw by International law). You even had to forcefully import Mizrahi Jews to get enough colonists to occupy the land. Ask some of the Iraqi jexish population who had no affinity at all with eastern european zionism .... It is nowhere near correct to say tthat 'jews deserve a place to live'. This is rewriting history even ....

Comon mate.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

I don't like getting into these arguments anymore because I am actually an historian and arguing with people on the internet is painful and for some reason, alone among all conflicts, people think they understand the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. If you ask people about Kurdish/Turkey conflict or say the plight of the people of Western Sahara, most people don't even know the first thing and would be happy to admit as much but for some reason, this conflict turns everyone into immediate experts. Anyway...

Criticizing Israel is definitely not anti-Semitic but many anti-Semites use the cover of Israel to excuse their own bigotry and anyway there is a difference between criticism and virulent loathing. It's similar to the way people criticize Obama. If you want to say he's an ineffectual president or he is weak or something you would say about another President, that's a criticism and perfectly legitimate. if you want to say he's an illegitimate president who aspires to destroy America or other frothing nonsense, you can't tell me that there isn't racism behind that at least in a great many cases. Of course there is. Similarly, if you want to say Israel reacts way too harshly or Israel does the same stupid thing over and over, again, etc...that's criticism, all the spewing hatred about Zionist control over the media, comparing a conflict about land to the Holocaust, and using words that you would never use with any other country doing the same thing, that's not criticism, that is bigotry.

@Mohammed-Your example doesn't work because Saudi Arabia is only one country. if someone only criticized Muslim countries and no other, would you not think (know) they had a bias? I have seen plenty of anti-Muslim bigotry and it is very rarely the "I hate Muslims" kind outside of certain scary circles Instead it is like this. A website will select all the bad things the Muslims in the world have done in one day and put them together. headline, Muslims kill Christians. Page 1: Muslim countries have low level of literacy. Page 2. Why Islam can't be true. Page 3, Muslim levels of sexual assault highest... Etc... There is nothing intrinsically wrong about any of these statement. Is criticizing a religion, a literacy rate, sexual assault, or murder wrong? Of course not but this is modern bigotry. Bigotry is a weird thing. This is how John Terry can say a racist thing and not be a racist and yet people can say non-racist things and be racist.

The conflict is actually fairly simple at it's core and not that difficult to resolve.Neither the Palestinians nor the Israelis fundamentally recognize the others right to exist or attachment to the land. Both think they can drive the other away and both are wrong. It is a political problem that needs a political solution. The worst thing about this, the most frustrating, is the timing. If you had Rabin as Prime Minister of Israel with Abbas as president of Palestine, I think you'd have peace very quickly. It is sad to see extremism winning out and it is very hard to be optimistic about anything. Peace hasn't happened not because it can't but because neither side wants it enough. What will happen now is extremely predictable. Hamas was bombarding Israel, Israel will bomb Gaza, they will probably invade Gaza. They will kill lots of people. Hamas will fire lots of rockets trying to kill lots of people. Eventually, Israel will withdraw and both sides will claim victory even though they both have lost. Nothing but blood and idiocy.

Saudi Arabia, to all Muslims is the heart of Islam, simply because it started there. So actually yes, when Muslims see too "harsh" criticism about Saudi Arabia they feel it is an attack on Islam:).

Regarding the conflict I partially agree with you. Part of the Palestinian (Hamas) don't believe that Israel has the right to exist. Fateh on the other hand have been going for a two state solution for a while. Hence they were killed by Hamas, who saw them as traitors. But no Israeli prime minister has also accepted the right for Palestinians to exist, only Isaac Rabin like you said and Abbas. Maybe also Shlomo bin Ami, who sees himself as a "Liberal Zionist" and is aware of what the Palestinians have been through and what they are still going through. When Fateh and and Hamas decided to put their differences aside, that was an excuse for Israeli to be hostile, same case when the Palestinians tried to be part of the UN. Before mate, I would agree with you that both parties didn't want peace, now however I think only one party doesn't want peace. However, I really respect your point of view.

[haranr 485]

PLEASE ALL TAKE SOME TIME TO READ PLEASE.

He is an idiot. He isn't looking for a solution. (I can elaborate on this if you wish.. just ask away)

Now, Hamas has started and ARE TO BLAME for this 'mini-war'.. (When members of their organization have kidnapped and killed three Israeli teens). But the problem is much much deeper than that.

First of all, 'Terror' is unacceptable, doesn't matter the situation. It's maybe understandable but it's absolutely unacceptable!

Hamas needs to be destroyed that is true.. They are too radical to achieve any thing 'good' in this world, but! Even if Israel decides to demolish Hamas.. It won't bring ANY true 'leads' for 'peace'.

Although Israel does not have a safe option here. They CAN do the right, ethical thing... But that by NO MEANS will bring peace.. And I am not talking about 'true peace' I am just talking about 'no-war' situation between the Israeli state to the new-born Palestinian state. THAT IS ONE REASON why the international criticism of Israel isn't 100% right. (I can elaborate further more if you want) Israel NEEDS to change approach. 'approach' like the one Rabin had in 1994. Barak 1999.. etc..

This Israeli-Palestinian conflict have come to a place where there is no 'good solution'. (I repeat.. I can elaborate on every claim I have.)

I believe Israel HAS to give the Palestine people a state in the West-Bank but I am afraid of the RADICAL ISLAMIC GROUPS that CAN take over that country and cause Israel MUCH MUCH MORE TROUBLE. Now, anyone in the world who denies that possibility is not very smart. There is much more on this subject and if you want we can discuss opinions but there are facts that Mr.Benet needs to learn.. I wish to criticize the majority of the Israeli population for racism, egoism, arrogance etc.. I also wish to criticize the Palestine people.. Most of them are peaceful true but throughout history they have taken the wrong decision and led TOGETHER with Israel to this situation. 'HAMAS' is a terror organization that have unrealistic goals and intentions that simply cannot be achieved. They are no-partner for Peace and never will be. They have taken the Gaza Strip in this 8 year of control from a livable ground to an absolute 'hell'. Of course Israel has a part in that but it's mainly because of Hamas ideology and acts throughout the years. In Gaza people suffer so much that they don't wish to live anymore.. They feel as 'we had enough! we don't want to live, no jobs, no money, no life'. This is because of the terrible situation Hamas HAS led them into. Nobody in this world can blame Israel and only Israel for the situation of most Palestines in the Gaza strip. We did as we were told. 'Get out of the Gaza Strip.. Give them autonomy and let them improve their situation. Now, unlucky for most.. The radical people usually take power in the Islamic populations... Once Israel understood Hamas were about to take control of the Gaza Strip they should have gone in and take them down. If Israel would have done that it would have gotten a lot of negative criticism from the hypocrite international community but... THAT ACT would have solved so much... Solved suffering in both sides.. ATM, the situation in the Gaza Strip is so bad, I don't have a realistic solution. This above was about the Gaza Strip. On the other side, we have the WEST-BANK. A territory that is controlled by the PLO.

The PLO are NOT a terrorist organization since 1994 when Israel had declared they aren't... They might not be a 'good partner' for peace.. But that's what this conflict has and Israel needs to chance approach in order to do the ethical thing. SAME AND MORE for the other side's approach even though they are in a much worse situation... That's where I'll end this small piece of words. I can elaborate on anything each of you wants.

[haranr 485]

You mean how the jews were getting slaughtered while the whole world turned their back?

Why cant a jewish state exist?

It

Wow. Your true colours are suddenly showing....

Plz also check your facts on the ways Palestina was occupied and colonialised.

This was not a peacefull process. Also, after violating the original (imposed to palestines) un territorial agreements Israël keept taking land by force (condemned btw by International law). You even had to forcefully import Mizrahi Jews to get enough colonists to occupy the land. Ask some of the Iraqi jexish population who had no affinity at all with eastern european zionism .... It is nowhere near correct to say tthat 'jews deserve a place to live'. This is rewriting history even ....

Comon mate.

I wish to criticize your claims. I will begin with something not very relevant but the 'stage 1' photo is simply incorrect. You need to remember that most of the land was nobodys because there was no Palestine or Israeli state. A full majority of the Palestine lived and still living in the WEST BANK and that was their territory.. the same for Israel. Where they lived is where their land was. Stage 1 should not be shown here.

Now I don't really understand what you are trying to say. The situation is much more complex than just (Israel won the war and got the land), The Palestines have chosen WAR in 1947. Now, this might be understandable but absolutely unacceptable. There is no legitimate explanation of why they declined the UN partition aside from arrogance and egoism.. You should not legitimize that. Explain me your points further please. Thank you.

[xPetrCechx 13,563]

It

I wish to criticize your claims. I will begin with something not very relevant but the 'stage 1' photo is simply incorrect. You need to remember that most of the land was nobodys because there was no Palestine or Israeli state. A full majority of the Palestine lived and still living in the WEST BANK and that was their territory.. the same for Israel. Where they lived is where their land was. Stage 1 should not be shown here.

Now I don't really understand what you are trying to say. The situation is much more complex than just (Israel won the war and got the land), The Palestines have chosen WAR in 1947. Now, this might be understandable but absolutely unacceptable. There is no legitimate explanation of why they declined the UN partition aside from arrogance and egoism.. You should not legitimize that. Explain me your points further please. Thank you.

Right.

[haranr 485]

Wow, Zionists are more brainwashed than I thought.

Your country is a terror state / police state that acts as the eyes for the United States (another terror / police state) in the Middle East.

Zionists are brainwashed into thinking they deserve more than the Palestines but Israel is NOT a terror state, does NOT have a terror police.. That is simply wrong. If you want to critisize Israel then fine but you must remeber that Israel shouldn't be called a terror state because it is not what it is. I can prove you wrong in every aspect. You don't seem to know the meaning of the word 'terror'... Try and prove me wrong.

[xPetrCechx 13,563]

Zionists are brainwashed into thinking they deserve more than the Palestines but Israel is NOT a terror state, does NOT have a terror police.. That is simply wrong. If you want to critisize Israel then fine but you must remeber that Israel shouldn't be called a terror state because it is not what it is. I can prove you wrong in every aspect. You don't seem to know the meaning of the word 'terror'... Try and prove me wrong.

This Time, Again, Who started all the attacks? Hamas.

Israel told them, stop attack and we will not attack. but....

we just defend.

[haranr 485]

It is absolutely hilarious and tragic at the same time that the media still treats this 'struggle' as a fair fight as if it is a war between two equally equipped sides.

This is the effect of Palestinian resistance rocket:

And this is an Israeli army airstrike:

Context and perspective are everything.

Listen, what are you trying to say? That it's legitimate for them to shoot rockets that have a possibility of killing innocent civilians? What exactly are you saying? Let me tell you how stupid you are for saying something like that: Because Israel is much stronger.. it's okay and legetimate for the Palestines to shoot rockets that sometimes do have a signficant damage. Lucky for Israel, "Iron Dome" is at place to take down most of the rockets. Israel has the right to defend itself. You just sounded real stupid .. You can criticize different things but not this.

[haranr 485]

This Time, Again, Who started all the attacks? Hamas.

Israel told them, stop attack and we will not attack. but....

we just defend.

What's your point??

Btw, Israel don't just defend. Settlements is a disgrace .

[haranr 485]

Yes. Zionists have a huge influence in Western Media and Western politics in general.

Honestly, I think it's a political decision. One that won't be made any time soon. General consensus is set by the media and the media is a reflection of certain policies. As you said, there can be no just solution as long as the best interest of Israel is valued many times more than that of the Arabs.

Israel broke down the "peace talks" when Hamas and Fateh, the two main representatives of the Palestinian people, ended their feud. There can never be any doubt after that about Israel's intentions to not have actual peace.

Israel should NOT have broke down the "peace talks" with Fateh but Israel MUST not talk to a terrorist organization such as Hamas. Both sides do not want to compromise enough for peace.

[xPetrCechx 13,563]

We gave them 48 hours to think, to stop what they started... they continued to fire missiles on us...

now we must to response.

[haranr 485]

We gave them 48 hours to think, to stop what they started... they continued to fire missiles on us...

now we must to response.

This is obvious.. We should not just response. We should enter the Gaza Strip in order to demolish Hamas. This terror organization has gone too far. They hurt their own and Israel at the same time.

[xPetrCechx 13,563]

Hamas Hurt The Palestinians more than anyone else.

[haranr 485]

Hamas Hurt The Palestinians more than anyone else.

True. Now, are you ימני?

[xPetrCechx 13,563]

True. Now, are you ימני?

Not too far from...

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Listen, what are you trying to say? That it's legitimate for them to shoot rockets that have a possibility of killing innocent civilians? What exactly are you saying? Let me tell you how stupid you are for saying something like that: Because Israel is much stronger.. it's okay and legetimate for the Palestines to shoot rockets that sometimes do have a signficant damage. Lucky for Israel, "Iron Dome" is at place to take down most of the rockets. Israel has the right to defend itself. You just sounded real stupid .. You can criticize different things but not this.

No, I'm saying it is VERY clear to anyone who sees that who is the oppressor between the two sides and who is terrorizing who. In fact, just by looking at the types of weapons, any sane person can deduce who the criminals are and who are the people trying to defend what little remains from their basic rights for life with what little they have.

I've said before, I do not wish to discuss this with you, so don't quote me again, please.

[xPetrCechx 13,563]

No, I'm saying it is VERY clear to anyone who sees that who is the oppressor between the two sides and who is terrorizing who. In fact, just by looking at the types of weapons, any sane person can deduce who the criminals are and who are the people trying to defend what little remains from their basic rights for life with what little they have.

I've said before, I do not wish to discuss this with you, so don't quote me again, please.

trying to defend?

we didn't attack them first.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

trying to defend?

we didn't attack them first.

And how do you think they ended up with 50 year-old riffles and locally made rockets? No one attacks a country, let alone one of the most armed countries in the world, with these weapons. These are defense weapons. These weapons are a reaction, not the action.

Yes, this last conflict was started by the Palestinians, which I had already said in this thread is inexcusable and awful, but they have always been the ones defending (and losing) their land, their homes, their families, there mere existence.