Politics & Stuff

[Fernando 6,376]

Go back a few pages and read if you are interested. This post should explain where the animosity between Arab's and the Zionists started:

Took me a while to read all this and comprehend.

Thank you for it.

But I do have a question.

You go as far as 1900 with Palestine.

But I never heard of Palestine before that or even any major Kingdom.

I do know that Jews and Israel existed long before that.

The time during Jesus.

King David and such.

So what is what and who is who?

[BluesChick 1,260]

Actually, you can find references to Palestine as far back or further than 500 BC and the first translated reference was from Egyptian hieroglyphics. It was and is located where the modern day Israel is located or at least a portion of it.<br /><br />Sorry, if my explanation is poor this delves back to my ancient humanities class over 20 years ago... I sure someone else (one of historians) can do a better job. <br /><br /><br />Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[NishC300 1,865]

Just came back from a sensational MUN Session! I am the main submitter!

My resolution is on the "Measure to prevent terrorists from acquiring weapons of mass destruction." We had some members of the UN mission in Cyprus over there etc.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

[CHOULO19 24,332]

[Melanicus 5,208]

In this depiction of Corporate Feudalism everyone works for a living. The Fed is more like a puppet than a master because the Fed actually takes its orders from the banks.Central bankers get paid very little, Bernanke isn't even a member of the 1%. And where are the "owners", i.e., old money billionaires - Rothschilds?

The difference being, that "Everyone Else" on the right side has the opportunity to move up the scale, something that never happened in any incarnation of society to ever exist prior.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

In this depiction of Corporate Feudalism everyone works for a living. The Fed is more like a puppet than a master because the Fed actually takes its orders from the banks.Central bankers get paid very little, Bernanke isn't even a member of the 1%. And where are the "owners", i.e., old money billionaires - Rothschilds?

The difference being, that "Everyone Else" on the right side has the opportunity to move up the scale, something that never happened in any incarnation of society to ever exist prior.

Again with the Rothschilds. What's with people holding on to idiotic conspiracy theories. The conspiracies were wrong 100 years ago and 200 years ago and they're even more absurd today. Rothschilds aren't even particularly rich in the banking world and the idea that they somehow control things is laughable to anyone with even a cursory understanding of how the economy works. Bankers do have enormous influence (which is different than control) but the big banks are Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, HSBC, Deutche Bank, Barclay's, etc making hundreds of billions...not relatively small, private banking houses.

@Choulo- It just seems to be getting worse too. The rich are getting richer. The super rich and are getting much richer and everyone else is getting fucked. The whole system is so broken and it's for complicated reasons. (fall of unions, rise of technology in the workplace replacing workers, rise of lobbying by big business, etc...). There are some easy answers (higher taxes for the rich, cracking down on offshore accounts, etc...) IMO but also hard ones. Look at a company like Whatsapp? In the pasty, companies worth billions would have employed hundreds of thousands of people. Now, they have 55 people. I do work for a company worth about $100M who employs about 20 full-time people. Is there an answer to that?

Did you see wolf of Wall street? Matthew Mcconaughey has a good scene there where he explains how the investment bankers make money

Mark Hanna: Nobody knows if a stock is going to go up, down, sideways or in circles. You know what a Fugazi is?"

Jordan Belfort: Fugazi, it's a fake.

Mark Hanna: Fugazi, Fugazi. It's a wazy. It's a woozie. It's fairy dust.

[Kieran. 6,317]

How do people honestly defend capitalism? Why are there not more anti-capitalist people active?

Liberals just work to reform capitalism, which is pointless in the long run imo.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

How do people honestly defend capitalism? Why are there not more anti-capitalist people active?

Liberals just work to reform capitalism, which is pointless in the long run imo.

Because it is still easily the best system. (Or, if you want, the least bad system). Capitalism with proper checks and balances where the rich are actually forced to pay taxes and the poorest are taken care of works quite well. And what else is there that is viable? Every other economic system ever tried has been an unmitigated disaster. Capitalism is like Democracy. It doesn't work great and needs constant tweaking and checks and balances but it's far better than anything else.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

In this depiction of Corporate Feudalism everyone works for a living. The Fed is more like a puppet than a master because the Fed actually takes its orders from the banks.Central bankers get paid very little, Bernanke isn't even a member of the 1%. And where are the "owners", i.e., old money billionaires - Rothschilds?

The difference being, that "Everyone Else" on the right side has the opportunity to move up the scale, something that never happened in any incarnation of society to ever exist prior.

You're right there. Obviously, it's not my pic, so I can't defend everything in it, but you still can't but see the staggering similarities which is ultimately the point behind the pic. We haven't moved nearly as far ahead since that time than we'd like to think.

And I'd say, you probably had more chance to move "up the scale" during feudalism than you do now, although the point here is the fact that there is a monetary based scale to classify humans than how you move up it.

The other and more dangerous point is about the diminishing of the middle class which is the single most important barrier against social chaos and eventually civil war.

How do people honestly defend capitalism? Why are there not more anti-capitalist people active?

Liberals just work to reform capitalism, which is pointless in the long run imo.

Simply, lack of proven alternatives. Take down capitalism sounds great, but what do you replace it with? Instead of posting pictures with logical fallacies like I did above, we should find a viable alternative.

Plus, we as humans are usually completely immersed in the current moment. It's very "unhuman" to look at the long term effects of capitalism like the increasing social gaps, the general receding and loss of social morals, the environmental disasters and global warming, all the wars for economic reasons...etc.

[Kieran. 6,317]

Simply, lack of proven alternatives. Take down capitalism sounds great, but what do you replace it with? Instead of posting pictures with logical fallacies like I did above, we should find a viable alternative.

Plus, we as humans are usually completely immersed in the current moment. It's very "unhuman" to look at the long term effects of capitalism like the increasing social gaps, the general receding and loss of social morals, the environmental disasters and global warming, all the wars for economic reasons...etc.

Why is socialism without capitalism so scary to imagine??

I'm not talking about Venezuela either, with their "socialism" being state capitalism.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Why is socialism without capitalism so scary to imagine??

I'm not talking about Venezuela either, with their "socialism" being state capitalism.

Because it's been tried many times and has been a financial and humanitarian disaster every single time. There's a reason it fell (and continues to fall. It's only a matter of time before the last few counties leave it behind). I have a lot of sympathy for Socialism because the ideal behind it of equality is something to strive for, but in practice, it simply doesn't work. That being said, counties can and so use elements of socialism to make their societies more equal.

[Kieran. 6,317]

Because it's been tried many times and has been a financial and humanitarian disaster every single time. There's a reason it fell (and continues to fall. It's only a matter of time before the last few counties leave it behind). I have a lot of sympathy for Socialism because the ideal behind it of equality is something to strive for, but in practice, it simply doesn't work. That being said, counties can and so use elements of socialism to make their societies more equal.

Socialism could definitely work if there weren't capitalist countries trying to intervene every two seconds.

[Rmpr 8,977]

Socialism could definitely work if there weren't capitalist countries trying to intervene every two seconds.

I dont think it would Kieran. I mean, Capitalism is not great, but like Toronto said it is the least bad of them all...

Socialism will always eventually become a dictatorship. The transition is way too utopic. It is not even due to Capitalism intervining, it is more about our own human nature!

Capitalism in a Wellfare State + Direct Democracy (like in Swizterland) is by far the best solution (imo).

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

Socialism could definitely work if there weren't capitalist countries trying to intervene every two seconds.

This seems like an interesting topic and your point of view is very interesting too. If you don't mind I would like to know why you like socialism and not capitalism?

[Kieran. 6,317]

This seems like an interesting topic and your point of view is very interesting too. If you don't mind I would like to know why you like socialism and not capitalism?

"The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil. We see before us a huge community of producers the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labour...I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals." - Albert Einstein

I never liked capitalism because I don't enjoy seeing people work 2 full-time jobs in order to feed their kids while some fat fuck banker is sitting on his ass lighting his cigar with a lit $100. I don't enjoy seeing the United States and other imperialist countries have a stranglehold on every country. I don't like reading about European countries destroying Africa for resources (STILL!), with little respect for the people or THEIR resources.

It's a fucking mess and it has to be changed.

[Fernando 6,376]

"The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil. We see before us a huge community of producers the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labour...I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals." - Albert Einstein

I never liked capitalism because I don't enjoy seeing people work 2 full-time jobs in order to feed their kids while some fat fuck banker is sitting on his ass lighting his cigar with a lit $100. I don't enjoy seeing the United States and other imperialist countries have a stranglehold on every country. I don't like reading about European countries destroying Africa for resources (STILL!), with little respect for the people or THEIR resources.

It's a fucking mess and it has to be changed.

Don't think any new system you bring up will change it either.

Communism in the past was a disaster.

When you look at the Muslim brotherhood it feels sort of the same. Either you follow their believes or you die.....as I heard the radical islamic hate Christians and jews and are out to kill them.

With such think minded people you cannot reason.

The old structure of kings ruling over the land was almost the same. You might have one good king that does great, but when one bad kings come it erases the entire work someone did and puts them back into the dark ages.

So if you have something that is really great that will respect every religion and ethnicity then I would like to hear it. Who is going to overrule it, how he or she will be appointed to power and such?

What happens when you have a corrupt ruler?

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

"The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil. We see before us a huge community of producers the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labour...I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals." - Albert Einstein

I never liked capitalism because I don't enjoy seeing people work 2 full-time jobs in order to feed their kids while some fat fuck banker is sitting on his ass lighting his cigar with a lit $100. I don't enjoy seeing the United States and other imperialist countries have a stranglehold on every country. I don't like reading about European countries destroying Africa for resources (STILL!), with little respect for the people or THEIR resources.

It's a fucking mess and it has to be changed.

I really feel you on that matter. When Egypt first became a Republic after removing the King in 1952 we became a socialist country. At that time Egypt was stable and we had our major conflicts with Israel, the UK and the U.S for different reasons. Hence we were by default with the other super power at the time " The Soviet Union". And because the Egyptians suffered so much from inequality and poverty during the King's era socialism seemed great. Provided equality, free education, free health care and even redistribution of land for the poor people. Backed up with the very high patriotisim at the time, due to the conflicts and Martin Luther like powerful speeches, we were not able to see the problems that came out of socialism.

You can not deny the fact that human nature is key element. Though correctly, like you have implied, socialism provides equality and economic independence for nations and individuals, it also promotes redundancy, inefficiency and masked inequality. You see two people working the same job at the same factory, company etc, one working hard and the other slacking yet they end up with the same wages at the end of the day.

On the other hand capitalism promotes free trade, free market, high competition and very high efficiency. And that leads to what is reffered to as econimic equlibriums of the market. But as time goes, it creates a social gap, eliminates the middle class, makes the poor poorer and the rich richer. Not to mention stupid decisions in the banking system that lead to a world recession.

The point is both have their positives and negatives. And again I have seen the negatives of capatalism in my country too and surpisingly in 1st world countries like the U.S and the EU. and the problems will keep increasing. We cannot be blind pal to assume perfection in either one. But I think we need to either come up with an entirely new economic system or use both at different levels.

Take the Obama Care for example, that is no way a capatlism idealogy. It is more of a socialist approach to solve medical issues in the U.S Again it will have have its positives and negatives. If you look at it from the point of people who can't pay their medical bills and are having major problems with insurance company rates then it is a positive. You look at government spendind versus taxes it is a negative. I am quiet sure you are well aware of thoses debates .

My humble opinion is that you need both bro to co-exist in different levels depending on the society, the economical performance and the different sectors'/industries' performances. But above all dpendind on what the people need to have a proper and a better life for themselves, their parents and their kids. Sorry if I wrote too much but I found the topic really interesting.