🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Frank Lampard

[Azul 1,615]

You really gave liverpool as an example? Mane and Salah are world class players that never are injured. Salah already outscored CR7 in PL. They are a two man team and that is why they bought a cheat code with Thiago as well.

We might be playing attacking football, but Kante is a no. 6,Mount plays like a defensive midfielder and Kai right now is a mess. Attacking football needs good attacking players..
As far as I know, we have scored second most goals in PL. Only Pool scored more and they have Mane and Salah and also they get more penalties because they dive all the time.

I can't say anything on Soton. Don't watch them

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You're confusing. First you're talking about creative players and now you're talking about attacking players. What on earth are you on about?

Liverpool don't have creative players, they have a system that get's the best out of their attackers. Hence why Mane and Salah are so effective for them. What I'm saying is that we don't have to rely on a certain player to win games. If Mane or Salah is injured for Liverpool, they still win games. Remember when Salah had Covid and Jota stepped in and he was bossing it? You really think it's a coincidence that Jota plays good for Liverpool? I don't, it's Klopp's system getting the best out of him just like Mane and Salah.

So that's why we shouldn't rely on any particular player. Even if Ziyech is injured our bench is ridiculous. Wolves have a worse team by far and so do Everton.

[killer1257 3,282]

You're confusing. First you're talking about creative players and now you're talking about attacking players. What on earth are you on about?

Liverpool don't have creative players, they have a system that get's the best out of their attackers. Hence why Mane and Salah are so effective for them. What I'm saying is that we don't have to rely on a certain player to win games. If Mane or Salah is injured for Liverpool, they still win games. Remember when Salah had Covid and Jota stepped in and he was bossing it? You really think it's a coincidence that Jota plays good for Liverpool? I don't, it's Klopp's system getting the best out of him just like Mane and Salah.

So that's why we shouldn't rely on any particular player. Even if Ziyech is injured our bench is ridiculous. Wolves have a worse team by far and so do Everton.

Jota had 22 scorer last season. He can't be that bad. I am pretty sure that both Salah and Mane would win us the title because they are that good. They just have two Hazards in their team that have freak genetics and don't get injured.

You said that Liverpool score so many goals and I said they only have scored one more goal than us. I also pointed out that Mane and Salah are basically cheat codes.
Under Sarri, we created almost no chances, but Hazard had 32 scorers at the end of the PL season. Why? Because we had Hazard in his prime. And Liverpool have two Hazards in their team and Chelsea has no Hazard level winger in the team. Huge difference. You need way less creativity when you have players like that because of their individual quality. We don't have Hazard level wingers in our team and we also do not have world class creative wingers in our team. Also, as far as I remember, TAA creates many chances for his teammates just like robertson. Their offensive quality on the wings is clearly on a different level than us. TAA creates as many chances as most wingers do.



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[Azul 1,615]

Werner scored 36 goals or something last season, Kai Havertz had ridiculous numbers as well. The same goes for Abraham, Giroud etc.

The reason why we had many goals is because we played against the worst teams in the league. How many did we score against Man UTD, Spurs, Everton, Wolves etc? Let's wait and see whether we remain the leading goalscorers.

All I'm saying is that a better manager would get the best out of these players which means that we wouldn't have to rely on players like Ziyech. Is it that hard to understand? Jheeez

[MoroccanBlue 5,399]

Mental we haven’t beaten anyone in the top 10 yet

[Blues Forever 1,232]

3 hours ago, Vesper said:

best managers available (not that I expect Lampard to be sacked)

Julian Nagelsmann

Poch

Massimiliano Allegri

Diego Simeone (IF he was available, doubtful atm)

Luis Enrique (IF he was available, doubtful atm)

Ralf Rangnick

 

I don't rate Rangnick as a coach, he is far better as a director. If Lampard sacked i want Nagelsmann but i also won't mind if we go for Hassenhuttl, Rose, Poch, Tuchel, Ten Hag, and Enrique either. 

[Puliiszola 519]

5 hours ago, Azul said:

5 hours ago, Puliiszola said:

Oh dear god. Oh my fucking god. 

Say that all you like, and come talk to me when he's sacked. I have the guts to voice my opinion, and I'm giving arguments for why I believe the job is too big for him. Do you have any rational arguments other than "give him time"? If not then kindly fuck off

Oh. Rational like we just fucking went on a 17 match unbeaten run? Those rationals can hardly stand up against getting him sacked, right? 

Also, the funny part of the post was if he wins the next 5, you would still not support him. Funny, calling yourself a "fan". Such "fans" need to fuck off and find a new team. How is that for voicing an opinion

[Blue Armour 4,710]

5 hours ago, Vesper said:

Klopp and Mourinho mind games

they are both masters at it

I really hope that those mind games come back to bite both of them in their arses.

 

[Jase 43,479]

5 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Mental we haven’t beaten anyone in the top 10 yet

Man City haven't done it either, before Wolves climbed to 10th after yesterday's win.

[Strike 7,761]

Lampard's quotes after the game.

“We should have seen the game out,” Lampard said. “If you’re not playing well, which we weren’t, you should hang on, not allow counterattacks.”

Also suggests team didn't respond to the plan laid out. 

"We have been given different kind of games in these last two, Everton made it difficult for us to break them down – we didn’t succeed with that – and Wolves played very much a counterattacking style. The players have to feel that on the pitch because the message was very clear about their counterattack and individuals who could hurt us and that’s disappointing."

Frank can say players didn't adapt all he wants but in-game management comes from manager instructions, decisions during the game. 

[Jase 43,479]

4 minutes ago, Strike said:

Lampard's quotes after the game.

“We should have seen the game out,” Lampard said. “If you’re not playing well, which we weren’t, you should hang on, not allow counterattacks.”

Also suggests team didn't respond to the plan laid out. 

"We have been given different kind of games in these last two, Everton made it difficult for us to break them down – we didn’t succeed with that – and Wolves played very much a counterattacking style. The players have to feel that on the pitch because the message was very clear about their counterattack and individuals who could hurt us and that’s disappointing."

Frank can say players didn't adapt all he wants but in-game management comes from manager instructions, decisions during the game. 

Did nothing to help stem the flow of the game and then blamed the players after that. Classic Lampard.

That's what I said yesterday that Mourinho may have a point about him here...

[Special Juan 28,730]

7 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Mental we haven’t beaten anyone in the top 10 yet

You've just spelt it out.

[Tomo 21,751]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Did nothing to help stem the flow of the game and then blamed the players after that. Classic Lampard.

That's what I said yesterday that Mourinho may have a point about him here...

Yeah but we all know Mourinho has an ulterior motive for saying such, he's probably still fuming Lampard got offered this job when he was available and Lampard's record against Mou since has probably made him even more bitter.

Compare the way Mou talks about Lampard and Chelsea now compare it to how Ancelotti or heck even Conte does and the difference is night and day.

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Tomo said:

Yeah but we all know Mourinho has an ulterior motive for saying such, he's probably still fuming Lampard got offered this job when he was available.

Compare the way Mou talks about Lampard and Chelsea now compare it to how Ancelotti or heck even Conte does and the difference is night and day.

Oh god, are you really still going on about that? 

[Tomo 21,751]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

Oh god, are you really still going on about that? 

Hardly wrong though, am I?

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Tomo said:

Hardly wrong though, am I?

That's just your (conspiracy) theory. If isn't it, then prove it. 

[Tomo 21,751]

Just now, Jason said:

That's just your (conspiracy) theory. If isn't it, then prove it. 

Okay then, so why do you think Mourinho has suddenly become so bitter about Lampard but Ancelotti has still managed to maintain a strong relationship with him?

[Jase 43,479]

14 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Okay then, so why do you think Mourinho has suddenly become so bitter about Lampard but Ancelotti has still managed to maintain a strong relationship with him?

Isn't it in Mourinho's nature to just be hostile (or close to one) against his direct rivals? The only one he didn't that to over the years was Alex Ferguson and that's probably because he knew Ferguson could play the same game too. He didn't dare to poke the bear, so to speak.

Another factor that may have contributed to Mourinho's bitterness (if you really want to call it that) towards Lampard is that Mourinho wasn't happy at all when he left us and then joined Man City on loan. One of the recent The Athletic's articles mentioned how Mourinho got scared of Lampard potentially leading City to the title after our 5-2 loss at Spurs in 2014/15 that he decided to park the bus for the rest of the season and crawl our way to the title. 

As for Ancelotti, it's not his nature to be picking fights with people, is it? Compared to someone like Mourinho, Ancelotti is the more universally liked figure. 

[Jase 43,479]

Havertz and Werner might need Chelsea formation change to bring best out them

https://theathletic.com/2264487/2020/12/16/werner-havertz-formation-chelsea/?source=emp_shared_article

This season, it seems, is not going to be kind to the teams with designs to be considered Premier League contenders.

Earlier this month, when they swept aside Leeds United at Stamford Bridge with a display of high-tempo ruthlessness, Chelsea had the look of a side who had found themselves heading into the festive fixture crunch in good shape. Eleven days and back-to-back defeats against Everton and Wolves later, it’s once again reasonable to question the on-pitch identity they had built with such style.

Frank Lampard was in no mood for such introspection in the immediate aftermath at Molineux. For him, this was simply a case of poor game management. “The threat from Wolves is clearly the counter-attack and it is a major threat from what they have got,” he said. “It is the main one because they have speed and quality in forward areas. The players knew it before the game, the players knew it in (the) game but we allowed some counter-attacks. If you are going to allow a team to play to their strengths then you may lose.”

Nothing he said left the impression there could be a departure from the 4-3-3 system that has underpinned Chelsea’s rise in recent weeks, even as Everton and then Wolves’ defensive success left many querying whether the formation is viable with the squad’s wing depth so depleted. The bigger headache for Lampard, however, will probably come when he ponders whether or not the tactical framework he has chosen can maximise either of his two marquee summer signings.

Timo Werner — operating from the right and later from the left of the front three at Molineux — had three shot attempts against Wolves, none on target and none particularly memorable. He has now failed to score in his last eight Chelsea appearances across all competitions and while that time span includes some freakish misses, three of his lowest expected goals (xG) ratings of the Premier League season have come in his last four games. Wolves largely kept him out wide, where his sloppy passing often made him more of a hindrance than a help.

Werner’s touch map vs Wolves

Kai Havertz, meanwhile, was replaced by Mateo Kovacic in the 71st minute after producing his most anonymous performance of the season. Deployed as a No 8 on the right of the midfield three, he touched the ball fewer times (47) than any outfield Chelsea starter other than Werner and Olivier Giroud, had no shots and played no key passes. The vast majority of the passes he completed were safe options, either sideways or backwards, offering little to the team’s more progressive passages of play.

When it comes to Havertz there is no shortage of reasonable mitigation. He contracted COVID-19 in November and was bed-ridden with significant symptoms for more than a week. As well as depriving him of training time, the illness also further slowed an already tricky adaptation process to a new style of football with a new team in a new league. Having played for spells as a No 8, a No 10, a winger and a false nine in four years at Bayer Leverkusen, he has been deployed in all four positions in his first four months at Chelsea. He is also 21.

Havertz revealed during his unveiling press conference in September that he considers himself primarily as a No 10. Werner, meanwhile, reached a new level of attacking threat at RB Leipzig last season when coach Julian Nagelsmann slotted him into a bespoke tactical role, somewhere in between an on-the-shoulder striker and a left winger, with either Yussuf Poulsen or Patrick Schick acting as the muscular attacking focal point.

The one thing that Havertz and Werner’s ideal roles have in common is that neither exist in Lampard’s 4-3-3.

It won’t always matter. As recent weeks have shown, Werner is more than capable of carrying a constant threat on the left of a front three, provided that he is allowed to do most of his running into the box without the ball rather than with it. While he can be a devastating ball-carrier in transition situations — as Newcastle and Leeds both found out to their cost — he lacks the skill of an elite winger to consistently dribble past his marker, and his touch is too inconsistent to be heavily involved in possession play.

On his better days, Havertz has also shown signs of growing into the No 8 role, finding pockets of space to receive the ball on the half-turn, moving it on intelligently and arriving late in the box to connect with crosses. The slick sequence of play which led to Giroud’s equaliser against Leeds exhibited all of these qualities.

Hakim Ziyech’s return from a hamstring injury will help both. The man Ajax fans dubbed “The Wizard of Amsterdam” has been exactly as advertised so far in England, establishing himself as the creative hub of this Chelsea team from the moment he came into the starting XI. Werner can connect with his devilish in-swinging crosses as Quincy Promes once did, and the defensive attention the Morocco international attracts can free up Havertz to express himself fully.

But until then, Lampard might need to lean on the tactical flexibility he showcased at key moments of last season. The 4-3-3 is only as effective as the balance of personnel within it; Chelsea’s dearth of fit wingers right now might have made a return to 3-4-2-1 more logical against Wolves. Another option — one that requires less disruption to the team’s defensive and midfield balance — would be a 4-4-2 diamond, with Havertz operating at the tip and Werner up front alongside either Giroud or Abraham:

That particular tactical scenario would penalise Christian Pulisic, Chelsea’s most dazzling attacker for long stretches of last season and a man Lampard really needs to find momentum for after a frustrating stretch of hamstring trouble. But any option the manager chooses will carry a significant selection cost in a squad blessed with as diverse an array of attacking talent as this one.

Chelsea’s on-pitch identity will probably continue to shift with the tides of form and fitness, along with the unpredictable storms in this most volatile of seasons. Lampard will need Werner and Havertz to help him chart a course through it all.

[Johnnyeye 7,579]

we've been brought down to earth with these last results, i admit i got a liitle excited too soon, but the reality is, we are far from being title contenders. Lamps still has a lot to learn

[Tomo 21,751]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

Isn't it in Mourinho's nature to just be hostile (or close to one) against his direct rivals? The only one he didn't that to over the years was Alex Ferguson and that's probably because he knew Ferguson could play the same game too. He didn't dare to poke the bear, so to speak.

Another factor that may have contributed to Mourinho's bitterness (if you really want to call it that) towards Lampard is that Mourinho wasn't happy at all when he left us and then joined Man City on loan. One of the recent The Athletic's articles mentioned how Mourinho got scared of Lampard potentially leading City to the title after our 5-2 loss at Spurs in 2014/15 that he decided to park the bus for the rest of the season and crawl our way to the title. 

Yeah but if he made an exception for Ferguson (was that really down to fear of being played at his own game or more the fact that he usually beat him? As Rafa pointed out once he had a pretty strong relationship with Mou himself until THAT semi final, remember them both looking cosy in the Anfield tunnel?) shouldn't the same be made for a player who delivered for him one of his most successful spells as a manager? (The spell that cemented his status as a world class manager no less). I mean given how he demanded blanket respect from us because of the three titles it's beyond hypocritical of him to turn on Frank.