🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Frank Lampard

[Vesper 30,178]

32 minutes ago, Jason said:

And we went on to concede only 39 league goals that season under Sarri, which is 15 less than last season despite the heaviest loss being 4-0. 

there are some people twisting themselves into pretzels to deny reality

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I'd agree there's some concerns tactically but he's done quite well developing players on an individual basis.

If the individual in your mind is Pulisic, don't...it doesn't really count when it's only one player. 

[Tomo 21,751]

3 minutes ago, Jason said:

If the individual in your mind is Pulisic, don't...it doesn't really count when it's only one player. 

Tomori looked like he was finding his level as a Championship player pre Frank. 

Tammy's all round game developed a lot last season.

Kova and Willian had the best season's of their careers.

Early signs are Chilwell is going up a level under his management although too early to make a definitive judgement.

Mount depends on what your preference is, he's turned him into a better all rounder but he has lost a lot of the creativity he had at Vitese/youth level.

And finally, as you say, Pulisic, his talent has always been obvious but at Dortmund and his first couple of months with us he was widely inconsistent and would often totally ghost games. Lampard has not only got a level of consistentcy out of him that we will thought would take atleast a season minimum, but has got him to a Hazard level which was beyond anyone's wildest dreams.

[MoroccanBlue 5,382]

No one can defend at the moment. 

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, Tomo said:

Tomori looked like he was finding his level as a Championship player pre Frank. 

And yet, he can't get into the starting XI ahead of Christensen.

2 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Tammy's all round game developed a lot last season.

But is he really developed enough to succeed at the highest level?

And also, great confidence shown by Lampard to go out and buy another striker...

4 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Kova and Willian had the best season's of their careers.

That is highly debatable. Kovacic was in and out of the team and Willian was consistently inconsistent.

6 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Mount depends on what your preference is, he's turned him into a better all rounder but he has lost a lot of the creativity he had at Vitese/youth level.

Better all rounder but at what cost? What even is Mount's best position now? What is Mount really good at apart from his workrate?

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

If the individual in your mind is Pulisic, don't...it doesn't really count when it's only one player. 

Reece James and Zouma have also improved during is reign. lampard basically made Mount, Tomori and Tammy even tho both are still average. I woudl say he has improved BArkley and Kovacic played the best season of his career last season.

[Tomo 21,751]

9 minutes ago, Jason said:

And yet, he can't get into the starting XI ahead of Christensen.

Still beats the Piazon esque career in the loan army he was destined for.

10 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

10 minutes ago, Jason said:

But is he really developed enough to succeed at the highest level?

And also, great confidence shown by Lampard to go out and buy another striker...

Not really as straight forward as that, United chased Sancho all summer but that doesn't mean they have no faith in Greenwood.

Tammy looks like he can at the very least be a good option for a squad at PL level, which again is more than was looking likely before, he was pretty pants at Swansea so much so he had to take another drop down a level.

12 minutes ago, Jason said:

That is highly debatable. Kovacic was in and out of the team and Willian was consistently inconsistent.

But got more top performances out of him than any of his predecessors.

And what season has Kova had better than last on the individual level? The only debatable one would be his last season at Inter.

[Vesper 30,178]

12 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

Reece James and Zouma have also improved during is reign. lampard basically made Mount, Tomori and Tammy even tho both are still average. I woudl say he has improved BArkley and Kovacic played the best season of his career last season.

Zouma is dross

we keep rolling with him as a regular CB over the coming years we are not going to win shit

he is absolutely dreadful with the ball

[Vesper 30,178]

Zouma needs to go to a caveman lump it forward route 1 midtable club that parks the bus most games

[Alabama 1,992]

4 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Zouma needs to go to a caveman lump it forward route 1 midtable club that parks the bus most games

Am still fuming for that horrendous pass to Kepa that led to their second goal...ffs just get the ball out of play and it's a throw in...

[Jase 43,479]

8 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Still beats the Piazon esque career in the loan army he was destined for.

So this is where we're at now? Measuring Tomori against Piazon with him as a barometer?

9 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Not really as straight forward as that, United chased Sancho all summer but that doesn't mean they have no faith in Greenwood.

But Greenwood is not exactly a winger is he?

9 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Tammy looks like he can at the very least be a good option for a squad at PL level, which again is more than was looking likely before, he was pretty pants at Swansea so much so he had to take another drop down a level.

Abraham was only 20 and playing in his first season in the Premier League. Hardly a surprise he struggled, especially in a terrible team like Swansea were back then.

11 minutes ago, Tomo said:

But got more top performances out of him than any of his predecessors.

And what season has Kova had better than last on the individual level? The only debatable one would be his last season at Inter.

More top performances but what else? Has Kovacic gotten more creative? Has Kovacic provided more assists or scored more goals? 

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

33 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I'd agree there's some concerns tactically but he's done quite well developing players on an individual basis.

I'd have to agree to a point.

I think that's all well and good but developing players on an individual basis has to show results in improving the team as a whole through a good structure or tactical set up, so these players can maximise their ability and affect matches.

There is clear signs we are very much a just give the ball to someone who is playing well (Pulisic last season) and let them do the rest still or give it to a fullback and let them pump it into the box. There isn't any coordination or patterns that are worked on like we would see with Conte or Sarri.

Under Conte the season we won the league, overall as a team, we did have individuals improve (Moses, Luiz, Cahill, Azpilicueta, Matic, Hazard, Pedro, Cesc, Kante over the course of that season probably played some of the finest football of their careers) but not only that, as a collective we improved tenfold because we managed to find a way to utilize all these players strengths together within a set way of playing. For instance, individuals like Alonso, like Moses who weren't particularly great players but what they brought to the team in that formation helped and it dovetailed with the likes of Eden and Pedro being able to play much more narrower and getting closer to Diego Costa/the box. As well as Luiz being in a more central birth in a back 3 where he probably engages players less as he would do playing on the left or right sided centre back position in a back 4, has a bit more protection to the sides and in front of him with Kante and Matic but also, at the same time allowing him to come out and be proactive, intercepting balls into strikers feet or stepping into MF with the ball, which are strengths of his. 

The tactical side has got to come good somehow. I mean you can be as good as you want at improving players on an individual basis but if you cant find a way to maximise the actual teams performance you wont last long/wont be as successful. 

[Vesper 30,178]

7 minutes ago, Alabama said:

Am still fuming for that horrendous pass to Kepa that led to their second goal...ffs just get the ball out of play and it's a throw in...

yep, as much as Kepa is shit, Zouma has blood all over his hands on that too

the only CB of quality we have is 36yo and cannot play every day

we are so screwed there, I am NOT convinced o Tomori at all yet

I would have loved to seen a proper pre season, a normal one, where Sarr got a tonne of minutes to judge him

AC, Zouma, Rudiger all need to be shipped out

they are never going to be top class CB's

Rudiger had a chance, but he has horridly regressed

I have seen nothing from Ampadu to give me confidence in his CB abilities

hopefully that changes, along with Tomori and Sarr

but as it stands

we need two from this list 

José Giménez    
Dayot Upamecano  
Milan Skriniar    
Alessio Romagnoli    
Matthias Ginter    
Evan N'Dicka    
Edmond Tapsoba
 

[blues.bridge 343]

our defence is shit, overall our CBs, but only i think also our midfilder duo is not good enough? 
in 4-2-3-1 the two midfielders ahead defence are maybe the two most important players in the team (also near n.10)
They are those who have to dominate midfield, create union  between defence and attack phase.
Today i have seen great  trouble to pass the ball to the defence to the 3/4 players, always passing through full backs and rarely in central.
Kante and jorghi don't give enough! not enough physics, not control enough the ball and the game, not cover the defence and the central field, not take risk to pass or accelerating the pass or similar.
I think that with some games to get adapted Gilmour could be our player and all the team will go better!

[Vesper 30,178]

Bottom line for me atm with Lamps

we has too many players whose WORST characteristics are becoming their dominant characteristics

not going to rate the new boys

so

Kepa (should never see the pitch for us again, yet Lamps keeps playing him,)

Zouma his shit ball-play and passing

AC poor positioning, and is bullied too often

Rudiger  goes braindead far too often

both backup left backs are dross, not really on Lamps at all, we all know they are shit, thank fuck for Chilwell

Azpi, utterly inept on offensive manoeuvres (and now his legs are gone quite often on defence)

Kante, great at breakup play, but HORRID with the ball, his passing is worse than Zouma's

Jorginho weaker than even AC, slows up play far too often, horrid defensively, Lampard is clueless with him

Mount, its simple, he is NOT a winger, and Frank plays him until he is ground into the dirt and spent

 

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

We just don't have the players for a pivot. They all have glaring weaknesses. To make a pivot work for a top club you must be at least good at everything.

Kante is really sloppy on the ball. Jorginho is really sloppy off the ball, even when he is focused he just isn't a capable cm for the Premier league. Maybe as a cdm with two workhorses either side and having 60+% possession. Never in a two.

Kova is somewhere in the middle but his passing forward isn't the best from deep. I dont know why he wasn't even on the bench.

I dont think any are good enough defensively. Even kante chases the ball. With 4 attackers and at least one fullback charging on the pivot has so much to do. The two need to work together. Regardless of the three that plays, one will choose to press whilst the other has no clue what his partner is doing.

I think this is on lampard. I can see his point of view, he needs better players for the pivot. Actual DM's id say. But that doesn't mean he can't work on a pivot that improves if not ultimately good enough.

I'm starting to think gets relying on players quality rather than coaching. You can't throw your hands up and say "I don't have the players". For fuck sake choose two, put some work in. Working as a duo is what he sorely need in that pivot

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[MoroccanBlue 5,382]

Not getting a DM will sack Lampard 

[Vesper 30,178]

21 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Not getting a DM will sack Lampard 

with Gilmour out, we are fucked at DMF and CMF

only 3 healthy players + the £60m plus turd down the loo in Drinkwater

[Strike 7,489]

Its not so much an individual mistakes thing. The mistakes are a product of a coaching, pressing issue.

Silva and Mendy for Zouma and Kepa will help but the midfield still needs to work out how it will play without the ball.

[Strike 7,489]

Even when Zouma and Christensen had the odd good game at the start of this season, I thought Frank should try Silva-Tomori. Genuinely think that could be our best bet because Tomori is rapid, could improve over the year into a decent defender. With Zouma/Chris we know what we are getting.