Juan Mata

[JayC 171]

Then fuck the fuck off.

Touchy , aren't we little man.

It's actually hilarious how bad you have all reacted to a United fan on your site. You should be really ashamed.

[Reddish-Blue 2,325]

Touchy , aren't we little man.

It's actually hilarious how bad you have all reacted to a United fan on your site. You should be really ashamed.

Let me ask you a question...if Rooney was sold to Chelsea in the last transfer window...and then a Chelsea fan went onto redcafe and started saying: "You sold us your best player"...

What type of reaction would he/she receive from United supporters?

[Cosmin 2,484]

Touchy , aren't we little man.

It's actually hilarious how bad you have all reacted to a United fan on your site. You should be really ashamed.

So you come here, talk about how great United are for buying what you (not everyone else) consider to be "our best player", then call us "children" and still you're the mature one. As long as you are fair, people here are fair too. What does that say to you?

[GeeMon 34]

My last comment was obviously tongue in cheek. Still, Hazard couldn't do anything against Westham - when you dearly needed it. Those two points could be so costly at the end of the season, and I can't help thinking that if you had a fully fit and confident Juan Mata that is exactly the type of game he would have unlocked.

It's true, a game like that would have fitted Mata perfectly. However, as someone ^ posted, Mata wants to play more than just the west hams of this world and he deserves that. Unfortunately you can't play a high pressing game with Mata as a focal point.

As has been said countless times, without Mata we are 3 points off the top compared to struggling for top 4. I'd much rather a strong footballing vision than basing a team around one player with the quality of Mata. He's a great player but as was debated with Rafa at the helm - what top European club would base their team around a player only as good as Mata? Barca? Real Madrid? Their two are out of this world and Bayern, Dortmund and Juve all have philosophies they follow.

I've been reading red cafe recently and sure a front 3 of Mata, Rooney, And RVP is mouthwatering on paper... But whats the philosophy? People are suggesting a 4-3-1-2 with overlapping FB's to provide width. Would need one hell of a central midfield to accomodate for the defensive frailties of that team.

Yes Mata is an amazing player and I'm grateful for his time here but I don't think you can field a player of his quality and have the strongest team in Europe. Individually, he's not on the level of the Messi's and Ronaldo's of this world nor is he physically sound enough to slot into the high pressing styles of the Bayern Munichs or Dortmunds. And that style, I believe, is the most effective way to play football at this current time.

[TrippingStep 336]

My last comment was obviously tongue in cheek. Still, Hazard couldn't do anything against Westham - when you dearly needed it. Those two points could be so costly at the end of the season, and I can't help thinking that if you had a fully fit and confident Juan Mata that is exactly the type of game he would have unlocked.

I think that attacking fullbacks and other players than Mikel Ramires as defensive midfielders would have helped. Since last year we have a really bad streak with Mikel in the team. It's four players (Azpi because he plays on the left) that do nothing against team that parked the bus.

Even Schurrle instead of William acting more like a second striker, attacking the box would have helped.

And it's not like we haven't struggled before, against Swansea that were very compact and defensive last year, even with Mata we struggled to score.

Evra is shitty defender but against this kind of team, he helped you a lot and you have Van Persie as a striker.

[JayC 171]

Let me ask you a question...if Rooney was sold to Chelsea in the last transfer window...and then a Chelsea fan went onto redcafe and started saying: "You sold us your best player"...

What type of reaction would he/she receive from United supporters?

I talked about Rooney leaving our club openly on this very forum. I had no problem with it. I don't have any time for lies and biased opinions. I tell it how I see it. A lot around here pull the wool over their own eyes.

If you had of signed Rooney I would have said good luck to him, and hoped we spent the money well. I would have told you to enjoy a player on a downward spiral. Small, but still downward. I was wrong, as this season he has been a revelation while fit. It's all down to him getting fit again, which to be fair I was not basing my summation on. None the less, I was wrong. I admit it. He would have been a very big loss, a lot bigger than I anticipated. Now that signing might have won you the league. This is honesty. I'd never sacrifice my sincerity for the sake of bullshit like not wanting to admit I was wrong.

I guess I never really gave a straight answer to your question - I'm guessing the reaction wouldn't be amazing, but If it was Redcafe I'm fairly certain it wouldn't end up with a ban for that person.

[TrippingStep 336]

Otherwise JayC, yes Mata could have helped yesterday as against team that defends deep, Him and Hazard could scheme things more patiently but in the greater picture, fullbacks and better central midfielder than those of yesterday would helped a lot more.

[JayC 171]

Otherwise JayC, yes Mata could have helped yesterday as against team that defends deep, Him and Hazard could scheme things more patiently but in the greater picture, fullbacks and better central midfielder than those of yesterday would helped a lot more.

Well, I think we both know there was a place in the Chelsea team for Juan Mata - you can argue all the crap you like about tactics and pressing, it still won't convince me this is the sole reason for Mata's departure. Chelsea fans need to face the fact that Mourinho wasn't comfortable forging his new side in the shadow of somebody elses buy. Your best player was sold because Jose is very arrogant and wants to build his own side. The lucky thing is, he's good enough to pull it off.

[Spike 12,049]

[manpe 10,861]

Well, I think we both know there was a place in the Chelsea team for Juan Mata - you can argue all the crap you like about tactics and pressing, it still won't convince me this is the sole reason for Mata's departure. Chelsea fans need to face the fact that Mourinho wasn't comfortable forging his new side in the shadow of somebody elses buy. Your best player was sold because Jose is very arrogant and wants to build his own side. The lucky thing is, he's good enough to pull it off.

So that means we're gonna sell Oscar too? Crap..

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[JayC 171]

So that means we're gonna sell Oscar too? Crap..

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

No. Most other players are safe. He wanted rid of the main influence on the team. It makes sense if you think about it.

[TrippingStep 336]

No. Most other players are safe. He wanted rid of the main influence on the team. It makes sense if you think about it.

Last year we had no other choices with the squad we had. We had fucking Marin Benayoun and Moses for substitutes in the three behind the striker.

Mata closer to the striker, putting Hazard and Oscar on the side deeper, closer to the midfield was our only option.

We'll see next year.

I could see us going 4-3-3 Hazard Salah on the wing, a new left back, a new striker, another cm and Oscar in the midfield three with less pressure on him for attacking purpose.

After all, Oscar would be better as a cm in a three man midfield, linking the play with fullbacks, wingers.

----------Azpi---------------Cahill/Luiz-----------Terry/??-----------Shaw

-----------------------------------Matic---------------------------------------

------------------new cm---------------------Oscar----------------------

--------------Salah----------------------------------------hazard--------

------------------------------------New striker---------------------------------

We would not need Mata in a set-up like that.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Well, I think we both know there was a place in the Chelsea team for Juan Mata - you can argue all the crap you like about tactics and pressing, it still won't convince me this is the sole reason for Mata's departure. Chelsea fans need to face the fact that Mourinho wasn't comfortable forging his new side in the shadow of somebody elses buy. Your best player was sold because Jose is very arrogant and wants to build his own side. The lucky thing is, he's good enough to pull it off.

So instead he's built the team around Oscar and Hazard? You realise he didn't buy those two players don't you?

I actually watch Chelsea's games (it's kind of a hobby) and Mata simply didn't fit the system. There's no conspiracy, Mata isn't a bad player he simply can't do the things we need him to do when we don't have the ball. Simple as that.

He wants to build a team who plays a certain way. Mata can't play that way. The funny thing is I doubt many United fans understand what Moyes is trying to build at United. Oh well, if I ever get bored I can trundle over to RedCafe and see the polls that showed that you guys wanted Mourinho as manager, or read a thread about how Hazard isn't as good as Kagawa. Fucking tourists.

[haranr 485]

Well, I think we both know there was a place in the Chelsea team for Juan Mata - you can argue all the crap you like about tactics and pressing, it still won't convince me this is the sole reason for Mata's departure. Chelsea fans need to face the fact that Mourinho wasn't comfortable forging his new side in the shadow of somebody elses buy. Your best player was sold because Jose is very arrogant and wants to build his own side. The lucky thing is, he's good enough to pull it off.

You are so wrong. Also, our best player is Eden Hazard not Juan Mata. Eden Hazard is not just better than Juan, he is SOOO much better.

[JayC 171]

So instead he's built the team around Oscar and Hazard? You realise he didn't buy those two players don't you?

I actually watch Chelsea's games (it's kind of a hobby) and Mata simply didn't fit the system. There's no conspiracy, Mata isn't a bad player he simply can't do the things we need him to do when we don't have the ball. Simple as that.

He wants to build a team who plays a certain way. Mata can't play that way. The funny thing is I doubt many United fans understand what Moyes is trying to build at United. Oh well, if I ever get bored I can trundle over to RedCafe and see the polls that showed that you guys wanted Mourinho as manager, or read a thread about how Hazard isn't as good as Kagawa. Fucking tourists.

Read my posts more carefully, and you'll understand them. Of course I know who Jose has bought, and sold. I keep tabs on most transfer activity.

Mata is perfectly capable of pressing. It doesn't even require good tackling. The main reason for pressing is to fluster your opponent into a mistake - which inevitably comes. It's pressurising them into a mistake. You're telling me Mata isn't capable of running towards a player and putting pressure on him to do something now, and quickly? Come on. I'll admit he isn't perfect for such things, but he could do it and to an effective level.

Yeah Redcafe is full of morons. Nothing like here. Of course you know it all. ;/

I'm not a user/member of Redcafe - but I have been in the past. Lets be honest. Redcafe shits all over this forum for knowledge of the game and player understanding etc. We all know it. I'm not even biased towards it either. Like I said , I don't post there.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Read my posts more carefully, and you'll understand them. Of course I know who Jose has bought, and sold. I keep tabs on most transfer activity.

Mata is perfectly capable of pressing. It doesn't even require good tackling. The main reason for pressing is to fluster your opponent into a mistake - which inevitably comes. It's pressurising them into a mistake. You're telling me Mata isn't capable of running towards a player and putting pressure on him to do something now, and quickly? Come on. I'll admit he isn't perfect for such things, but he could do it and to an effective level.

Unfortunately he's not. You make it sound simple, but it requires a lot from players and Mata simply can't do it. Neither could De Bruyne based on the matches he played. Then when we actually forced turnovers Mata slowed the play down on breaks. If you're going to play with him in the team then you have to do what Benitez did and give him a completely free role, which is great when he's having a great game but creates massive gaps between midfield and attack when he doesn't.

But you've got Moyes in charge so I'm sure he'll work out a gameplan that involves him....although personally I'd go with Rooney as 10. Far more productive this season (9 goals, 9 assists in 16 isn't it? Fantastic return from that position....and now you've spent £37 million on a player who can only play in that position).

. Redcafe shits all over this forum for knowledge of the game and player understanding etc. We all know it. I'm not even biased towards it either. Like I said , I don't post there.

Really? I don't necessarily agree but that's up to you.

But I'm sure I could go on redcafe and get a list of about 12 players that United actually needed to buy but couldn't (Koke, Pogba, Vidal, Herrera etc.) so had to panic buy a guy who was stuck on our bench.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

Don't be so bitter.

One game, one assist for Mata in United RED.

In other news..... Hazard was simply the best tonight. Your best player? I'd be worried. ;p

I mean I lost a seven bet accumulator tonight because of Chelsea and their best player. I took it in good confidence what was said to me pages ago. Guess I shouldn't listen to kids.... my own fault.

You're 7th in the league desperately fighting for Europa league football with Moyes in charge and you're telling us to be worried ?

Also for someone claiming to not be butthurt about Hazard you sure make a lot of butthurt comments about him.

He snubbed you guys and chose the better team. Get over it.

[JayC 171]

Unfortunately he's not. You make it sound simple, but it requires a lot from players and Mata simply can't do it. Neither could De Bruyne based on the matches he played. Then when we actually forced turnovers Mata slowed the play down on breaks. If you're going to play with him in the team then you have to do what Benitez did and give him a completely free role, which is great when he's having a great game but creates massive gaps between midfield and attack when he doesn't.

But you've got Moyes in charge so I'm sure he'll work out a gameplan that involves him....although personally I'd go with Rooney as 10. Far more productive this season (9 goals, 9 assists in 16 isn't it? Fantastic return from that position....and now you've spent £37 million on a player who can only play in that position).

Really? I don't necessarily agree but that's up to you.

But I'm sure I could go on redcafe and get a list of about 12 players that United actually needed to buy but couldn't (Koke, Pogba, Vidal, Herrera etc.) so had to panic buy a guy who was stuck on our bench.

I've made pressing sound simple because it is simple. The only hard thing about pressing is the stamina level required to do it.

It's rubbish that Mata requires a totally free role to flourish. He did play on the wing at Valencia and even at Chelsea at some points, yes? I agree it's not his most productive position, but he's not even close to poor playing there. He wouldn't even play as a convential winger anyway.

As for Moyes - I'm not going to pretend to understand him, because I don't. I'm thinking maybe it's the most obvious thing in the world. Such as a simple 4-4-2 when all players are fit. Two strikers with Mata, in behind. That way he can play all three and retain his beloved wing-play.

Leave the Redcafe thing, I'm not even interested in it. You brought it up and laughed at them - I've told you my view on it, and that's enough.