Juan Mata

[Tomo 21,733]

Did I even relate that point I made to that he should be playing because of that?

That point was more to the fact of people's evaluation of Mata right now. Maybe you're not one of them and it's not as if I'm saying everyone thinks that but there are few that sees it that way.

Have they tho? everytime some one criticizes a Mata performance or states they think other players are more suited to this team do they have to start with, "Mata was great in his first 2 years and i will always love him for that but ...........".

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Which side better than us will start him at their respective clubs?

Bayern Munich would not drop Ribery, Robben or Muller because they fit the system Bayern play and even then Gotze would be higher in the list to come off the bench.

Dortmund won't drop Kuba, Reus or Henrick either, because while Mata as an individual is arguably better than those 3, they fit Dortmund's high energy system perfectly.

Pellegrini would most probably choose Silva. Arsenal he will have to fight with Ozil and Cazorla.

Real or Barca he won't even get half the minutes he gets here even now, PSG he will have to fight with Moura and Lavezzi, even at Tottenham he will have competition in the form of Christian Eriksen. Athletico's team are also built on high pressing which means he will have just as big a fight on his hands as he does here. If he goes to Napoli, he has Hamsik to compete with, the list goes on and on.

The best club he can go to and still be star of the show is Monaco or ,and even then they will probably sign competition for his place eventually.

If players want to play at top clubs fighting for trophies (especially when we have other top players in his position), they have to fight for their place, and Mata is no different to any player in world football.

If he want's to go back to being the 'star of the show' he will either have to like any other professional outperform world class players, i love Mata, great player, nice guy, but none of those clubs above would build their system around him, so why Jose is getting stick for this situation i will never know.

Exactly. I said this earlier

I don't think mata will find it as easy as people think to walk into any team in europe and starting matches behind the striker.

PSG play 4-3-3 or 4-4-2

With ibrahimovic or cavani on form and playing in the center he has no chance of playing centrally.

He will end up playing in the wings, and if he couldn't adapt here, its not looking good because he has lucas moura and lavezzi to challenge

At Bayern and Barca he'll be on the bench. Madrid sold ozil because of workrate, mata doesn't stand a chance. Dortmund don't have money, manutd have rooney playing there and even kagawa (another player that is only good in one position) can't get there ahead of rooney. Tottenham don't look like getting into champs league, liverpool have to get into champs lge to get him, and if suarez and sturridge are both fit he may still have to play in the wings.

His options to get matches for world cup don't look good unless dortmund break their bank or another team changes their system to 4-2-3-1 just for mata.

And on top of this we are still not sure if del bosque will start him for spain if he still wasn't a starter after his best ever year last season.

I don't get why people expect mata to walk into any team in europe. Unless they play with mata in the center in a 4-2-3-1 and mata stays like the 2nd striker, its not looking as easy as people are saying to me.

[Jase 43,479]

Have they tho? everytime some one criticizes a Mata performance or states they think other players are more suited to this team do they have to start with, "Mata was great in his first 2 years and i will always love him for that but ...........".

Even some say that for the sake of it.

There are posts that seem to indirectly imply the point I made and maybe I'm wrong (or not) but one can perhaps sort of tell that judging by how members go about posting their views in this forum.

[Namika 922]

Juan Mata has been told by Mourinho that he still has a future at the club but cannot be guaranteed a starting position. There was a conversation between Chelsea and Mata’s agent in which the player was assured Mourinho does not want to sell. (Independent)

He has to step up now.

[Reddish-Blue 2,373]

Juan Mata has been told by Mourinho that he still has a future at the club but cannot be guaranteed a starting position. There was a conversation between Chelsea and Mata’s agent in which the player was assured Mourinho does not want to sell. (Independent)

He has to step up now.

Mata may as well sold because he's just not suited to Mourinho's system...

He could stay at Chelsea and play the odd game when Oscar needs a breather...but he deserves better more than a spot on the bench..

[Barbara 15,149]

I think the whole argument of “well if [insert name of disliked player] did that, they would be crucified and beaten mercifully” is a somewhat slippery slope and I’m not sure if that’s a path we want to venture down for this particular issue. I could also use that slant and say, well if Mata had made headlines for going to a rival's Christmas party a day before our match against them.....he probably wouldn’t have been so lucky to escape criticisms as Ash seemingly has been able to. My point is that we can sit here and trade “if this person did that” scenarios from now till tomorrow, but at the end of the day the fact still remains – using one, singular moment of outward frustration and ignoring all the other times that this player has been a model professional, all the other times this player has responded admirably - dismissing that and using that one incident to define this player (his integrity, behaviour and character) well…..I’m sorry but that’s not only unreasonable but also borders on narrow-mindedness.

If I’m an employee that is always early/on time and I show up for work late and my boss slates me, going as far as questioning my work ethics.... well he/she might feel that they are justified in doing so, but this person is still acting unreasonably. This isn’t a player that is constantly sulking on the bench, complaining to the press and generally being poisonous to the atmosphere. He had one moment where he showed visible signs of frustration, so what? If we choose to singularly focus on that one moment of human error – one that a lot of players, even the most upstanding ones have been guilty of doing – and berate him for “questioning mourinho’s authority” then we're not exercising rational criticism. That's being - in every sense of the word - myopic.

I said in my very first post that it was one time thing and that I hoped it would become a once-in-a-lifetime thing. The same with Oscar diving, I hope. So if you want to call me on something, at least read all my posts in the matter. I never implied he's an awful person, a completely unprofessional guy. I just think his bratty behavior IN THIS ONE situation was poor and unprofessional. Am I allowed to think as much without 1) people thinking I don't have a right to do so; 2) people thinking I'm labeling him as unprofessional?

Just because he only did it once it doesn't mean it wasn't an awful reaction IN MY OPINION. I never crucified the guy, never said he should leave and that after this episode he won't be able to stay. I don't even want him to leave because it's better for Chelsea if he stays. The fanboys who want to apply for his agent or his father position are the ones saying he should leave where he's appreciated because it's the best for him. I want the best for Chelsea, not for Mata, Oscar, Hazard, etc... The best for Chelsea is having Mata and see if with time he can adapt to the system he currently doesn't fit. Even if he can't, the matches he does take part he could give an assist or score a goal that would win us the match (although he only has one of each in 15 matches for us, plus 3 subs). None of my posts here say he should leave cuz I don't want him to leave. Is it fair for him to stay and be a squad member? I don't care if it is or not, I'm not a player supporter, but a Chelsea supporter. For Chelsea is better to keep a player of his caliber, although if he doesn't accept being a squad player - like he is in Spain - then I suppose it'll become a problem. If it's a problem, then put a request to leave. Mourinho did say his door is open...

As for the scenario, MANY members already showed their disapproval of players such as Rooney, who's done the same in the past (much more subtly) or who's put a request to leave. The thing is Mata sold his image quite well and most people bought it. He's the poor little Juan Mata, that is the kindest person ever born into this world and about to be canonized as the first living Saint of all time, a victim of bad, bad, evil-intended, maleficent Mourinho who doesn't value the POTY for two years in a row as he should. Bad, bad Mourinho for punishing little Saint Juan Mata by replacing him for a guy that's been playing better and who basically won us the match poor little Mata did nothing to win.

[lionsden 4,689]

It's funny how you've changed your opinion on Mata ever since Mourinho returned. Kind of "jumping from bed to bed", huh?

I thought I was the onlyone that noticed.

people can say whatever they want but I'm willing to bet my mortgage on the fact that the overall reaction and sentiment regarding the treatment mata has been subjected to, whether fairly or unfairly, this season would have been different if any other manager not named jose was in charge. no doubt about that whatsoever in my mind.

[Mceachran 109]

Does anyone think we could get Eriksen for Mata? He fits the system more. Mata is one of my favorite players (replacing a hole in my heart left by Joe Cole), but if we ARE going to lose him, I feel like that would be a win win for us.

[Tomo 21,733]

I thought I was the onlyone that noticed.

people can say whatever they want but I'm willing to bet my mortgage on the fact that the overall reaction and sentiment regarding the treatment mata has been subjected to, whether fairly or unfairly, this season would have been different if any other manager not named jose was in charge. no doubt about that whatsoever in my mind.

If the replacement's were helping us comfortably beat a very good Southampton side away 3-0 then no.

[Wilson 358]

Mourinho is an idiot for not playing Mata more often. Maybe he should try both Oscar and Mata in behind Torres. He'd also be an idiot to let Mata go.

[Reddish-Blue 2,373]

I said in my very first post that it was one time thing and that I hoped it would become a once-in-a-lifetime thing. The same with Oscar diving, I hope. So if you want to call me on something, at least read all my posts in the matter. I never implied he's an awful person, a completely unprofessional guy. I just think his bratty behavior IN THIS ONE situation was poor and unprofessional. Am I allowed to think as much without 1) people thinking I don't have a right to do so; 2) people thinking I'm labeling him as unprofessional?

The best for Chelsea is having Mata and see if with time he can adapt to the system he currently doesn't fit. Even if he can't, the matches he does take part he could give an assist or score a goal that would win us the match (although he only has one of each in 15 matches for us, plus 3 subs). None of my posts here say he should leave cuz I don't want him to leave. For Chelsea is better to keep a player of his caliber, although if he doesn't accept being a squad player - like he is in Spain - then I suppose it'll become a problem. If it's a problem, then put a request to leave. Mourinho did say his door is open...

There is a difference between being a squad player for your country...and being a squad player for your club.

I just think right now, Juan Mata is a square peg in a round hole. He's a gifted player but he doesn't fit Mourinho's style of football...

The problem for Mata is that:

1) Oscar fits Mourinho's system in that AM/CM role

2) Schurrle/Willian are much more effective than Mata in the wide AM role

[Henrique 9,133]

The curious case of Juan Mata:

Mata was a good player at Valencia, but he was far from a huge prospect when he signed for Chelsea back in 2012. He was the major signing in an aging squad that had AVB as the head coach and with few "flair players" left, Robben, Duff, Cole, Philips, Zhirkov were all gone, and Malouda was in decline.

It was easy to understand why many Chelsea's fans felt in love with the little man. He justified his player of the season awards with his stats: 55 assists and 32 goals. Despite his talents, goals and assists, Chelsea never looked really strong when he was the "maestro" of the team.

I have to admit the winning game against Liverpool, and the 2nd half against Southampton were the best PL game the team had since 2011. The midfield looked strong with AND without the ball. Mata is a player that needs a team that keeps the ball in their feet for 60 or 70% of the game, but he won't find that in PL.

He should be happy to be a Chelsea player and fight for his place.

[Thor 2,453]

The curious case of Juan Mata:

Mata was a good player at Valencia, but he was far from a huge prospect when he signed for Chelsea back in 2012. He was the major signing in an aging squad that had AVB as the head coach and with few "flair players" left, Robben, Duff, Cole, Philips, Zhirkov were all gone, and Malouda was in decline.

It was easy to understand why many Chelsea's fans felt in love with the little man. He justified his player of the season awards with his stats: 55 assists and 32 goals. Despite his talents, goals and assists, Chelsea never looked really strong when he was the "maestro" of the team.

I have to admit the winning game against Liverpool, and the 2nd half against Southampton were the best PL game the team had since 2011. The midfield looked strong with AND without the ball. Mata is a player that needs a team that keeps the ball in their feet for 60 or 70% of the game, but he won't find that in PL.

He should be happy to be a Chelsea player and fight for his place.

This is pretty much how I feel. We were nothing special with him as the main man, and now we are finding some semblance of dominant play, particularly in the midfield, and its with Hazard essentially being the main man, with Oscar being the guy hustling all over the field.

Willian has, to me at least, already proven to be the guy that should be starting. He does all of what Mata does, but hes got a better first touch, and pace to go along with it.

I wouldn't be devastated in selling Mata as I would for example KDB. I think he got overrated here very quickly, and while I was a huge fan, I was also very realistic of his talent, unlike some people here.

[remains of the day 564]

@Barbara Of course you have every right to hold this viewpoint of Mata but the moment you dish your opinion out on a public forum then people have their own right to comment, scrutinize and challenge that opinion. Fyi the post of yours I read (and I read it very carefully) was the one where you called Mata’s reaction a “spectacle, pathetic display”. Those were you’re exact words. You then argued that Mata’s reaction meant that he was questioning the “superior choice” of Mourinho. I think that's a knee-jerk claim, but whatever. Then you called him “a spoiled child” and questioned how many professional players would be seen doing that (btw quite a few have done worse). So to answer your question, yes I did read your post and your comments in that post doesn't at all sound like the words of someone who understands or acknowledges that Mata's reaction was an isolated incident and one that was uncharacteristic of him.

I think what truly boggles my mind about all of this, is that what you're calling a "spectacle, pathetic display" was one minutia moment of frustration where Mata showed some visible signs of annoyance and gestured towards the direction of the pitch. That’s what has got you, Alex and others on here, up in hands and practically foaming at the proverbial mouth? You're going on about the “Juan Mata fanboys”, using mockery terms like 'Saint Mata' and making wild speculations about mata “questioning the authority of Mourinho”…. I mean, real talk, what the deuce is this? I’m I in some kind of alternate universe where Chelsea FC is now a totalitarian regime ruled by a superior master? Where Juan Mata is public enemy no.1 and anyone caught sympathizing with him gets flocked for questioning the authority of the master? Seriously.

Because some on here prefer Mata over Oscar and don’t agree with Mourinho for marginalizing him, is that what merits this ridiculing and labelling of them as ‘mata fanboys’? I think we should get one thing straight, we’re all Chelsea supporters here and each of us supports the club in whatever way we deem fit. I support this manager and while I might not agree with his handling of Mata, I accept it and understand his decision. If a fellow supporter doesn't like the way Mata is being treated, then that’s their prerogative, it doesn't make their interest in the club any less than yours which is basically what you and a few on here seem to be implying - that you and you guys alone, the "non-Juan mata fan boys" are the ones who truly hold the best interests of the club. The beauty about supporting a football club is that not all supporters will see eye to eye but yet we still support the club and defend its integrity in the best way we know how. You don’t like the way some on here overly sympathize with "poor, little, innocent Juan Mata" while painting Mourinho as a villain? Hey I get that and you're entitled to be critical of that attitude. But what you're doing is now turning Mata, himself into a villain because of your annoyance with these 'mata sympathizers' and that's not right at all.

In any case, labels like "mata fanboys" creates nothing but unnecessary divisions. Chelsea football club is not an authoritarian regime. Mata is not an enemy of the state and those who sympathize with him are not some kind of rebel group out to bring down the special one. They're supporters with opposing viewpoints. At least that's what they told me to say, bad joke!

[blu35_army 551]

another opinion....

Oscar: Mourinho’s winning gamble.

Posted on January 2, 2014

This player has been bashed by many, and accused of being overrated and should be benched by Mata at Chelsea and Coutinho at Brazil. He is never mentioned among the world’s finest talents, everyone always opts for other names.

Let’s now take a moment to appreciate the things that go unnoticed about Oscar!

A player who has established himself as a starter for 2 great teams like Chelsea and Brazil, from his first year at Europe and his first season at international level. He is a favorite for 2 great managers like Scolari and José Mourinho. The latter described him as his team’s best player this season. Coincidence?

How many players can cover the pitch, tackle, win the ball back, and be the hard workers that Oscar is? Do you even notice that he always does well in big games? For example last year in UCL, or Europa League, always scoring. Against Spain last summer, Bayern in UEFA Super, or even against Liverpool last week.

Look what the teams where he is a starter at and was given confidence have reached: Brazil have won the Confederations Cup, and Chelsea are only 2 points off the EPL, having already topped their UCL group. Compare that to how Chelsea finished last season where Oscar wasn’t the main man, was still new and hadn’t established himself, and you’ll see that Mata’s absence hasn’t turned out to be a negative thing at all for Chelsea. The team is in fact doing very well, and Willian, Oscar, Hazard were near flawless in recent games.

In fact, when Mata was scoring goals for fun, the effect on Chelsea was very small compared to this season. His side was 14 points away from Premier League leaders at this point.

For the many who questioned Oscar’s ability to hold the number 10 role at Chelsea, there is no statistical evidence on that, was it for the team or individually.

Oscar in EPL: 13 starts, 6 goals, 2 assists.

Mata in EPL: 11 starts, 0 goals, 2 assists.

Chelsea at this point last season: 14 points off top UCL group stage exit.

Chelsea at this point this season: 2 points off top, UCL round of 16 (ongoing).

Moreover, it’s true that Oscar isn’t known to be a top goal scorer, but on the other hand, there is this unbelievable stat, whereas Oscar who came off the bench against Southampton in the last game, made 5 tackles, most in a game. Mata would need 2 or 3 games to make 5 tackles.

He is no doubt a great player, but his work cannot be compared to Oscar, who is a machine, covers all pitch and is more of an all around player.

Let’s not forget that Oscar is more than 3 years younger than Juan, which also means that as time passes, it’s only normal that Oscar develops.

Oscar scored 4 goals in 34 EPL appearances last season. He has scored 6 in 18 appearances so far, and we’re only half way. And that is just a small example.

Although, everyone who watches this player knows that goals and assists are the last thing that make him the great talent he is. He is a type of playmakers who can be man of the match without getting involved in any goals. You sometimes feel that he’d almost play as a center back, if he was a bit taller, taking in consideration his defensive stats.

Skills alone are not enough in football. You need to have tactical awareness and discipline. You need to cover the whole pitch and not a certain area.

If you look at the game against Liverpool, one of the turning points was Mourinho’s lineup. Chelsea applied high pressure on Liverpool’s defensive line, preventing them from a proper build up play, and causing them to make many wrong passes or get dispossessed. Hazard, Oscar and Willian, had no doubt played a big part in this tactical approach by the Portuguese manager.

Compare that to Liverpool’s forwards, who did not apply the same pressure on Chelsea’s defenders, which gave them more freedom.

Saying that Mourinho only plays Oscar because he hates Spain, is not a very convincing argument. Whereas that very same manager was accused last year of hating Brazilians themselves, for benching a fat Marcelo and an injured Kakà. Even more, José prefers Spanish international Azpilicueta over Ashley Cole at times, and Fernando Torres over Eto’o. But that argument could be even less valid, when you reckon that Oscar has only started 2 more games than Juan in EPL.

Mata didn’t complete 90 minutes in most of them? Well, if he was so convincing (with 0 goals, 2 assists in 11 starts, for a player who lacks work rate), then I don’t think Mourinho would have shortened his playing time.

For example, I can’t really blame Mourinho for subbing Schurrle and Mata out, for Willian and Oscar against Southampton. The positive effect was clear, and that’s a fact. The Brazilian duo changed the game for him. And it has happened in other times as well, where Mata failed to convince, and his substitute did better.

Juan is definitely one of the best players, and he has proven his quality in the past. But bashing Oscar just because he took his place, is never a good way to get him back into the starting lineup. Only his on the pitch performances can do so, something he failed to do in the last game. Whereas, his manager confirmed that Chelsea lacked intensity and weren’t very convincing, until Willian and Oscar “changed the game”, as he added.

As for Willian, there is no doubt that he will provide more quality to this already decent Chelsea side. With more time, and more games, he has all what it takes to break into Brazil’s lineup at World Cup.

And Willian himself, is an example that playing time is never a restriction from showing your quality. He has only started 6 league games, that’s 5 less than Mata

Source

[The only place to be 11,313]

I thought I was the onlyone that noticed.

people can say whatever they want but I'm willing to bet my mortgage on the fact that the overall reaction and sentiment regarding the treatment mata has been subjected to, whether fairly or unfairly, this season would have been different if any other manager not named jose was in charge. no doubt about that whatsoever in my mind.

But Jose is the man in charge and he's making us a better team than we were before he came.

Because some on here prefer Mata over Oscar and don’t agree with Mourinho for marginalizing him, is that what merits this ridiculing and labelling of them as ‘mata fanboys’?

Prefer Mata over Oscar?

Surely that should be 'prefer the way the team plays with Mata over Oscar' to fit in with your 'supporting Chelsea' narrative.

If that is the case, one must ask why? We're a better team without Mata in it right now.

[5354 204]

Mata is unique in the team because he is left-footed among the other attackers. His in-swing crosses from the right flank is pretty dangerous at times. We just need a good striker to head them into goal.

[5354 204]

It will be a pity if Mata left the team.

If he do leave, it has to be another league, not to a team in EPL.