The Hiddink Thread

[Ossie the King 634]

I think this situation goes both ways to be honest. Peace was not wrong with he said in his post. 3-4 years ago, we started to buy certain type of players - the footballing type, if you like (seems like the latest buzzword around here) - because we wanted to change our style of play, to adopt a more attacking approach as opposed to sticking with our pragmatic football from the years before that.

We wanted to have a system in place whereby we instill this new style of play in the club from top to bottom and hire a specific type of manager to manage those players. Even if we were to sack the manager or he leaves after a few years, the style will still be there and we just need to find the same or similar kind of manager (think Barcelona). That's arguably why we were hell bent on getting Guardiola back then but when he didn't want to join us, for whatever reason, the club decided to betray what they had been planning all along by hiring Mourinho, who we all know his playing style is the complete opposite of what we tried to implement going forward.

Perhaps, they had no one else to turn to, panicked and chose Mourinho because it was a marriage of convenience - the club wanted to success with style but when they couldn't get someone to implement that style, they ditched it just for success. They probably wanted to believe Mourinho was a man changed and a man wanting to fix his damaged reputation after his Real Madrid days. On hindsight and without wanting to sound like a total hypocrite, I - and most fans too - enjoyed the success Mourinho brought to the club last season but one cannot deny that our squad depth and quality - the squad given to him with those players bought by the board - got worse each season under him.

He ostracized certain players from the start - because they weren't tall or supposedly didn't work hard enough - and sold them almost immediately. He doesn't put the same faith in every one in the squad - certain players can play poorly for 100 games in a row and still start every week while the minute others perform poorly, they're out of the team and we won't see them for the next few weeks. People like to say it's the players' fault for not showing the hunger, desire to fight for their place but if you were in their shoes and you see boss treat you differently to some of the other players like in this case, you would want to leave, wouldn't you?

Others play badly but still get chances to play and rectify their mistakes. You play badly and you don't get to play for the next few games and get a chance to prove the manager wrong. It's just like Peace said, it says a lot when we're almost wanting/relying on the Kenedy-Loftus-Cheek combo to spark us into life, to get us out of this mire. It has become that desperate and that is without mentioning the fact that we only have 2 players who we can put in the world class category - Hazard and Courtois (we're a top side FFS!). Maybe if he weren't so quick in ditching some of the players and kept them in the squad, we might actually have enough strenght, quality and depth not to be in this mess right now. Our team is such in a bad shape right now that it's almost depressing that we need another major surgery on it and it's going to be even tougher now with our situation and the huge TV money coming in next season. At this point, we'll be even lucky to get a B-grade player in, never mind an A-grade.

On the other side to all of this, you are right in saying we did nothing to improve the team after winning the league last season. We stood still. We should have gotten in quality players but it's not in our given rights that we will get those players Mourinho wanted (e.g Pogba, Stones). Gone are the days when we can throw money at the other clubs and 'bully' them into selling their players. Maybe it is the board's fault for not doing things right to get the players but Mourinho shouldn't also be expecting those deals to completed like we're stealing a candy from a baby.

And there's also no excuse that we should be struggling this badly this season under Mourinho - with or without Pogba, Stones etc or not. Having those players wouldn't have solved our problems. Like you alluded to there, this team won the title last season and even if it's not perfect, they are still good/decent enough. I we're not challenging for the title this time arond, we should at least be around the top 4 or in the top 10 at the very least but the fact that we aren't perhaps says a lot about the Mourinho's management with the squad than the board not getting the players he wanted. And oh, before you start pinning the blame entirely on the board on transfers, let's not forget Mourinho's own blunders in the transfer market. He, after all, was the man who championed for Falcao, Cuadrado, Salah etc and look what has happened to them now.

Fantastic post. I could pick up on the minor points I disagree with but it's a well balanced argument. We did go through a phase of buying a certain type of player then hired a manager who wanted something different and just told him to win the league.... And he did.

Then when he did that we just downed tools. It shouldn't have been as bad as it was but it was always going to be a step back. Every club sensed the blood in the water and games we'd win last season we'd either draw or lose.

And now we looked prime to make another change in what we want. Pure speculation of course!

[kiwi1691 255]

Yes, Mourinho completely destroyed the team, thats how I see things.

How old are you??? That is a comment so stupid you must be a child.

[Azul 1,615]

Look around 00:28 secs

This shows that he has not watched any game this season and that he does not have any clue how the players performed.

I think that it will take 3 to 4 weeks until he realizes that some players are just average and that's when he will change the line-ups.

It will be too late by then though, how can a professional manager not analyze our previous mistakes....? Sigh, here we go again.

Let's just hope that he is not as stubborn as Jose.

[Blue Colored Sky 1,807]

Look around 00:28 secs

This shows that he has not watched any game this season and that he does not have any clue how the players performed.

I think that it will take 3 to 4 weeks until he realizes that some players are just average and that's when he will change the line-ups.

It will be too late by then though, how can a professional manager not analyze our previous mistakes....? Sigh, here we go again.

Let's just hope that he is not as stubborn as Jose.

It's hard to demand from a guy who was on vacation to watch Chelsea games and analyse them. He could have watched a couple but there was that thing that everybody had a clean slate under him. He probably got as much information as he could from staff that is here. And if everybody started with zero there's more chance that someone like Ivanovic is going to play than Baba or Fabregas than RLC or Diego Costa than Remy. Guus had only 3 days with training sessions with this group of players so he had to rely on information he has. Which is training. And Jose said that players are very good in training.

So yeah, it maybe takes time for him to draw his own conclusions.

[Last Sicarius 610]

No the effect of the new broom so he needs to make some changes.

[xPetrCechx 13,546]

only 3-4 days here...

give him some time.

[edetarod 2,155]

Look around 00:28 secs

This shows that he has not watched any game this season and that he does not have any clue how the players performed.

I think that it will take 3 to 4 weeks until he realizes that some players are just average and that's when he will change the line-ups.

It will be too late by then though, how can a professional manager not analyze our previous mistakes....? Sigh, here we go again.

Let's just hope that he is not as stubborn as Jose.

why would he do that to himself? watching us play football this season has been torturous

[Laylabelle 9,296]

That and probably didn't think we'd be that bad and maybe the players would get their act together for more then one game...then again it's his first game needs a actual chance rather then judging it now

[Adnane 1,101]

You are reading way too much in that, he is just avoiding to criticize previous work, knowing how professional he is, it wouldn't be fair to José ( nor to the players ) to say yeah the team wouldn't have reacted in front of the media.

[Ossie the King 634]

Just a small point and has nothing to do with the fact that I quite like Guus, but I've seen people suggest that Jose failed to adapt and that football simply passed him by. My question is, could the same have happened to Guus.

He came in and did well with us in 2009, although we were a great side then. We were almost CL winners just 12 months before under Avram Grant. We aren't that now.

Since then he was sacked by Turkey, sacked by Holland (both for failing to qualify for tournaments) and had a half-decent spell with Anzhi. In that same time Jose has won 4 leagues, 4 cups, 1 Champions League and been named FIFA Coach of the Year.

Is there a possibility that Hiddink is simply past it? It seems as though the only thing he's done of note in the last decade is take over the beaten Champions League finalists featuring players like Terry, Drogba, Cech, Lampard, Cole and Ballack and get them playing well. Two years later the same core would win a CL with Di Matteo at the helm. This situation seems a lot different to me.

[Tomo 21,681]

Just a small point and has nothing to do with the fact that I quite like Guus, but I've seen people suggest that Jose failed to adapt and that football simply passed him by. My question is, could the same have happened to Guus.

He came in and did well with us in 2009, although we were a great side then. We were almost CL winners just 12 months before under Avram Grant. We aren't that now.

Since then he was sacked by Turkey, sacked by Holland (both for failing to qualify for tournaments) and had a half-decent spell with Anzhi. In that same time Jose has won 4 leagues, 4 cups, 1 Champions League and been named FIFA Coach of the Year.

Is there a possibility that Hiddink is simply past it? It seems as though the only thing he's done of note in the last decade is take over the beaten Champions League finalists featuring players like Terry, Drogba, Cech, Lampard, Cole and Ballack and get them playing well. Two years later the same core would win a CL with Di Matteo at the helm. This situation seems a lot different to me.

This current job is probably perfect for Guus for the remainder of the season, this is like 2009 in a more extreme case, he is a good 'save us' manager, and his relaxed approach helped with players who were fed up with Scolari and probably will with this team this time as relationships with Jose became untenable.

Holland he flopped but as he said himself, they were actually on course to recover under his control, but they have different profile of players to what we do, that squad relished life under Van Gaal (a strict gaffer) and they responded more to that than the freeer approach Guus offers, Turkey and Russia got beat in the playoffs, that can happen.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

Just a small point and has nothing to do with the fact that I quite like Guus, but I've seen people suggest that Jose failed to adapt and that football simply passed him by. My question is, could the same have happened to Guus.

He came in and did well with us in 2009, although we were a great side then. We were almost CL winners just 12 months before under Avram Grant. We aren't that now.

Since then he was sacked by Turkey, sacked by Holland (both for failing to qualify for tournaments) and had a half-decent spell with Anzhi. In that same time Jose has won 4 leagues, 4 cups, 1 Champions League and been named FIFA Coach of the Year.

Is there a possibility that Hiddink is simply past it? It seems as though the only thing he's done of note in the last decade is take over the beaten Champions League finalists featuring players like Terry, Drogba, Cech, Lampard, Cole and Ballack and get them playing well. Two years later the same core would win a CL with Di Matteo at the helm. This situation seems a lot different to me.

Because people think they know better than the coach.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

I'm surely He'll need good support from the board in this market

Idk if he should have control though.

Iirc, the last time he 'signed' a player for us it happen to be one Yuri Zhirkov. Aside from that blinder vs Spartak(?).. He pretty much did eff all? Made a good emergency left-back mind you.

[Tomo 21,681]

Idk if he should have control though.

Iirc, the last time he 'signed' a player for us it happen to be one Yuri Zhirkov. Aside from that blinder vs Spartak(?).. He pretty much did eff all? Made a good emergency left-back mind you.

He never really got the chance too impress, first season Malouda and Cole were in the form of their lives and second season we were such a mess.

Wouldn't have minded him staying on under AVB but we got a good offer for him all things considered.

[robsblubot 3,222]

One interesting thing that happens here often is that our very expensive coaching staff is completely ignored when we discuss team and lineups, which is silly especially now with a new manager and a temp one at that.

This team was the coaching staffs not his. And he will be listening to them again and again so I do t expect drastic changes.

[Atlas Lion 1,223]

What in the bloody fuck? Zhirkov was a solid back up for us and put up quality performances even at LB domestically and in Europe.

[Rmpr 8,977]

I thought it was nice to have TOPTB back in the forums for the first few days, but now I am getting tired of it already lol

[LDN Blue 7,903]

He never really got the chance too impress, first season Malouda and Cole were in the form of their lives and second season we were such a mess.

Wouldn't have minded him staying on under AVB but we got a good offer for him all things considered.

Fair enough, my assessment of him wasn't that great imo I guess. Slightly unnecessary and the deal was done before we'd even secured a new manager.. It was Hiddink's parting gift so to speak.

But either way, don't think he should have much say in transfers considering how long he's going to stick around for.