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DavidEU

Eden Hazard

Started by DavidEU,

25,827 posts in this topic

If you'd have worded it like that from the start we wouldn't have had this discussion tbh. NEEDS TO BE DROPPED would imply to alot of people that he was abysmal.

But after reading this post I assume you feel he needs to be dropped because you know he can do better, being Eden Hazard, like a wake-up call. In that respect I agree even though I still think you, and others, are being too harsh.

This system doesn't fit him and he'll need time to adapt, just like Mata.

i compared him to cr, messi and ribery in my 2nd or 3rd post, so that should have given u the idea of what i expect of him, and how i look at him and why i would be wanting for him to be dropped.

harsh would be true, if it was some other winger. but people are "upset" or rather "unsatisfied" with his performances because of the level of expectations.

anyways i apologize for the name calling and hope for their to be no hard feelings. the word "plastic" gets on my nerves and then i simply see RED.

Weckerz likes this

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i compared him to cr, messi and ribery in my 2nd or 3rd post, so that should have given u the idea of what i expect of him, and how i look at him and why i would be wanting for him to be dropped.

harsh would be true, if it was some other winger. but people are "upset" or rather "unsatisfied" with his performances because of the level of expectations.

anyways i apologize for the name calling and hope for their to be no hard feelings. the word "plastic" gets on my nerves and then i simply see RED.

No hard feelings, we're men for a reason

didierforever and Eden2020 like this

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I really think having Mata on the pitch will help Eden a lot.I really miss their telepathic link-up from last season.

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i compared him to cr, messi and ribery in my 2nd or 3rd post, so that should have given u the idea of what i expect of him, and how i look at him and why i would be wanting for him to be dropped.

harsh would be true, if it was some other winger. but people are "upset" or rather "unsatisfied" with his performances because of the level of expectations.

anyways i apologize for the name calling and hope for their to be no hard feelings. the word "plastic" gets on my nerves and then i simply see RED.

if you KEEP seeing RED change your name to fernandoforever

didierforever and Stingray like this

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he was our best option for today. even i thought he ll pose problems for walker. but instead of chelsea winning the battle of the left wing, and midfielder players like paulinho and dembele getting pulled off to help on the left wing, we actually lost the wing to townsend. he WAS the more threatening player and seemed far more likely to get himself involved in a goal somehow. and THAT is what should not have happened.

Euhm, I'm confused and I don't get it. How should Hazard stop Townsend from raping Cole? You expect him to provide cover for Cole? Hazard is the attacking player of the 2, so that's odd to me but we might just see soccer differently.

Anyway, Eden has probably done more defensive contributions this seasons than offensive. I bet he's done more tackles and recuperations than dribbles, he did today at least. I looked it up: 1,8 tackles and 1 clearance per game so far compared to 2,2 dribbles and 2 shots per game. Balanced I'd say but I think last season the difference was way bigger (got no numbers, it's just a feeling). His game changed under Mourinho and because of the way Mourinho plays and sees soccer (which I really don't like and I think it's sad for a player with the qualities like Eden). Therefore, we can't expect him to deliver the same as last season. We can't expect him to stop Townsend (the attacking right midfielder) from raping Cole and shine in the offensive part too (while on the other hand Cole doesn't provide a lot of offensive help either). I'll think he'll just be moderate in those 2 aspects. At least for now, maybe he'll adapt to it, maybe not. But I think it hurts his game and he's not feeling 100% in his head with this. He's an offensive player in the first place, that should be his main focus in a game. He loves the game and he loves the ball but he's doing more chasing after it than getting it which takes away his joy and that's one of his strengths, that's where he gets his motivation from (for the love of the ball).

I'm not saying he shouldn't defend but the balance just isn't right.

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I don't know what has happened to Hazard but a game or two on the sidelines might do him good, just not clicking at the moment passing is off; dribbling ineffective; decision making questionable.

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Euhm, I'm confused and I don't get it. How should Hazard stop Townsend from raping Cole? You expect him to provide cover for Cole? Hazard is the attacking player of the 2, so that's odd to me but we might just see soccer differently.

Anyway, Eden has probably done more defensive contributions this seasons than offensive. I bet he's done more tackles and recuperations than dribbles, he did today at least. I looked it up: 1,8 tackles and 1 clearance per game so far compared to 2,2 dribbles and 2 shots per game. Balanced I'd say but I think last season the difference was way bigger (got no numbers, it's just a feeling). His game changed under Mourinho and because of the way Mourinho plays and sees soccer (which I really don't like and I think it's sad for a player with the qualities like Eden). Therefore, we can't expect him to deliver the same as last season. We can't expect him to stop Townsend (the attacking right midfielder) from raping Cole and shine in the offensive part too (while on the other hand Cole doesn't provide a lot of offensive help either). I'll think he'll just be moderate in those 2 aspects. At least for now, maybe he'll adapt to it, maybe not. But I think it hurts his game and he's not feeling 100% in his head with this. He's an offensive player in the first place, that should be his main focus in a game. He loves the game and he loves the ball but he's doing more chasing after it than getting it which takes away his joy and that's one of his strengths, that's where he gets his motivation from (for the love of the ball).

I'm not saying he shouldn't defend but the balance just isn't right.

there is nothing confusing here. if hazard had been the more threatening of the winger then townsend would have been deeper in his half trying to help walker out. also hazard is a winger. he HAS to provide "support" to cole, specially if he is unable to help in attacks. actually this is nothing new in football and is pretty common knowledge if u actually watch football. so....

oh so players like ribery dont help out in defense and shine in the offensive part. we had robben, joe cole who did exactly that.

i dont care if hazard's can do this or that. football is a team game and in the end the only thing that matters is if the TEAM wins or loses.

this statement of yours

He's an offensive player in the first place, that should be his main focus in a game.

is a really poor one. jose is building a team for the long run. he is building a team around a philosophy. and because of that we had benched our best player of the past 2 seasons. so it really does not matter how comfortable hazard is with tactic A or tactic B. he like the others has to adapt and learn and do it quickly.

also

" but he's doing more chasing after it than getting it which takes away his joy"

. hazard plays for chelsea fc, its not the other way around. we are not going to change our game play because it does not fit a particular individual nicely. jose is trying to make a far more complete player out of him.

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I think we should get something straight.

Anytime hazard is not among the best 5 chelsea players for us in a match = POOR PEFORMANCE

If townsend was more dangerous than hazard = poor performance

If he really needs mata to perform like I said earlier in this thread, its not good enough.

For this, Jose needs to give him the mata treatment (in a softer way) so that he can work harder and get his act together.

nore_ega and The Happy One like this

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there is nothing confusing here. if hazard had been the more threatening of the winger then townsend would have been deeper in his half trying to help walker out. also hazard is a winger. he HAS to provide "support" to cole, specially if he is unable to help in attacks. actually this is nothing new in football and is pretty common knowledge if u actually watch football. so....

oh so players like ribery dont help out in defense and shine in the offensive part. we had robben, joe cole who did exactly that.

i dont care if hazard's can do this or that. football is a team game and in the end the only thing that matters is if the TEAM wins or loses.

this statement of yours

He's an offensive player in the first place, that should be his main focus in a game.

is a really poor one. jose is building a team for the long run. he is building a team around a philosophy. and because of that we had benched our best player of the past 2 seasons. so it really does not matter how comfortable hazard is with tactic A or tactic B. he like the others has to adapt and learn and do it quickly.

also

" but he's doing more chasing after it than getting it which takes away his joy"

. hazard plays for chelsea fc, its not the other way around. we are not going to change our game play because it does not fit a particular individual nicely. jose is trying to make a far more complete player out of him.

It is necessary for hazard to be thinking about his defending part of the game however, as i see it, it shouldn't be his priority number 1 like it is now, it should be when there is an upcoming back on his side of the pitch, then it really is his job to fill in that gap.

I wasn't sure what was going to become of hazard under mourinho, was hoping for greatness in CR7 proportions, so far the only thing hazard seemed to improve on is his defending part of the game. But it's mourinho, you never know what's happening behind the curtains there.

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I watched him quite closely yesterday. Was he that bad? Or are we just being a bit too unrealistic with what we want from young Eden?

He wasn't bad yesterday. He wasn't great but he wasn't bad. But the problem is, as you eluded to, we expect great from Eden because we know he can deliver.

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So far, Hazard has not played well, I feel.

Should Jose ask him to play more defensively as he wanted Mata to play ?

No way Jose. Hazard is not that kind of player. Is he playing in his strongest position, lately ? To me, he is not.

How many times, have we seen him being doubled up & just passed the ball rearwards ?

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there is nothing confusing here. if hazard had been the more threatening of the winger then townsend would have been deeper in his half trying to help walker out. also hazard is a winger. he HAS to provide "support" to cole, specially if he is unable to help in attacks. actually this is nothing new in football and is pretty common knowledge if u actually watch football. so....

oh so players like ribery dont help out in defense and shine in the offensive part. we had robben, joe cole who did exactly that.

i dont care if hazard's can do this or that. football is a team game and in the end the only thing that matters is if the TEAM wins or loses.

this statement of yours

He's an offensive player in the first place, that should be his main focus in a game.

is a really poor one. jose is building a team for the long run. he is building a team around a philosophy. and because of that we had benched our best player of the past 2 seasons. so it really does not matter how comfortable hazard is with tactic A or tactic B. he like the others has to adapt and learn and do it quickly.

also

" but he's doing more chasing after it than getting it which takes away his joy"

. hazard plays for chelsea fc, its not the other way around. we are not going to change our game play because it does not fit a particular individual nicely. jose is trying to make a far more complete player out of him.

I would like to have a discussion with you but not like this. Don't put words in my mouth. I'm talking about how Hazard functions in this team. I never compared him to Ribery (or Robben or COle) because he's not at that level. Furthermore, I never said Ribery doesn't help out in defence. I wasn't even saying the game plan should change because of Eden (don't even know where you got that from...). I even said "maybe he'll adapt, maybe he won't". And if he doesn't and the game plan or philosophy doesn't help him develop further or does him more bad than good (offensive), he'll probably has to leave. If that's the case, then so be it. I was just trying to give a possible explanation about his lack of offensive contribution so that, those who agree with it, could adjust theire expectations of him. And I don't think we can complain about Eden's defensive work so far this season. So I'm up for a discussion about that explanation but your post isn't contributing to that.
Also, I watch quite some soccer (not football) on a regular base. So there's no need for you to suggest, with that tone, that I don't watch soccer. Not everything in soccer is common knowledge by the way. There's different views and opinions about how the game of soccer is played. Yours is probably more defensive minded than mine and that's okay. But that probably explains why you want your 'winger' to help out your full back when he's in a 1 vs. 1 against their 'winger'. In my opinion it's the job of the centre back to provide for cover when the winger gets by the full back. It's the job of the central midfielders to narrow down the channels so the winger can't cut inside easily. For me, the only thing Eden should do in those situations is cut of the passing options towards the full back (Walker) or midfield (depends on the ball and body position of Townsend) while positioning himself a bit more towards the centre (negative pressure on the ball). I want my attacking minded players to stay higher up the pitch than my defenders, not a few metres apart, so that, when we recuperate the ball, there are options to play the ball forward. And I actually think that's more common than your view. But if Walker overlaps Townsend than of course Eden has to help Cole out (if not he would be 2 vs. 1 and forced to make a choice) but that's a whole different situation than what you're describing here.
Question:
Do you really think that Townsend would stay lower on the pitch and make less runs (with or without the ball) when his team has possession if Hazard had been more threatening in attack? Townsend is a winger, he's supposed to attack when his team has the ball. He won't stay back when his team has possession just because Eden made some dangerous runs. I really can't see that happening. I can't imagine any coach that would ask that of his winger, especially not Villas-Boas. It was Walkers job to mark Eden out of the game, not Townsend. I would love for you to show me some (video)moments where the winger should help out the full back against the winger cause I can't visualize any situations right now (but, who knows, I might agree in some situations) and, for me, there's no logic in your thinking.
And the only rapists out there, for me, where Dembele and Mata.

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Question:
Do you really think that Townsend would stay lower on the pitch and make less runs (with or without the ball) when his team has possession if Hazard had been more threatening in attack? Townsend is a winger, he's supposed to attack when his team has the ball. He won't stay back when his team has possession just because Eden made some dangerous runs. I really can't see that happening. I can't imagine any coach that would ask that of his winger, especially not Villas-Boas. It was Walkers job to mark Eden out of the game, not Townsend. I would love for you to show me some (video)moments where the winger should help out the full back against the winger cause I can't visualize any situations right now (but, who knows, I might agree in some situations) and, for me, there's no logic in your thinking.
And the only rapists out there, for me, where Dembele and Mata.

do u mean townsend would not help walker if hazard was having a field day against him? look how deep hazard is when the opposition has the ball, and that is because of jose's play and tactics. if a person is a winger it does not mean he will not help out in defence. its about position the opposition team into there own half and pining them there. as for the video and all, all u need to do is watch a couple of barca matches to see exactly what i am talking about. or scratch that, all u needed to do was see everton vs chelsea to see how naismith and coleman continously double marked eden or how valencia and jones double marked eden in our match against united. and suprisingly naismith and valencia are wingers who are supposed to attack. so there is plenty of logic in my thinking and the fact i have to even tell u that wingers fall back and help their fullbacks against opposition wingers of the calibre of hazard is well a little dodgy.

townsend was having a ball out there in the first half. i was not at all suprised that in the 2nd half oscar shifted to the LW whie hazard played cam. and i am sure a big part of that would have been oscar's defensive ability.

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do u mean townsend would not help walker if hazard was having a field day against him? look how deep hazard is when the opposition has the ball, and that is because of jose's play and tactics. if a person is a winger it does not mean he will not help out in defence. its about position the opposition team into there own half and pining them there. as for the video and all, all u need to do is watch a couple of barca matches to see exactly what i am talking about. or scratch that, all u needed to do was see everton vs chelsea to see how naismith and coleman continously double marked eden or how valencia and jones double marked eden in our match against united. and suprisingly naismith and valencia are wingers who are supposed to attack. so there is plenty of logic in my thinking and the fact i have to even tell u that wingers fall back and help their fullbacks against opposition wingers of the calibre of hazard is well a little dodgy.

townsend was having a ball out there in the first half. i was not at all suprised that in the 2nd half oscar shifted to the LW whie hazard played cam. and i am sure a big part of that would have been oscar's defensive ability.

Okay, I kinda see what you're getting at now but I think you misformulated it a bit cause Townsend would still be able to make his runs higher up the pitch (because Tottenham had players in midfield that can hold a ball and buy time and possession or carry or pass the ball out and towards players who are positioned higher up the pitch). But I don't think Townsend is the type of player that should be double marked. Maybe it was instructed by Mourinho, we can't know that for sure. It's more logical that Messi, Ronaldo, Hazard, Ribery, Robben are double marked (and I don't mean to say Eden is at their level). But like I said earlier (and I agree with you completely on that subject), Eden has to learn and adapt and if he doesn't then it will be bad news for him. I was just pointing out that I might not be his kind of game and he doesn't have the volume (yet?) required to do very well in both areas.

Furthermore, I'm all for pinning the other team in their own half but that's a coordinated action of the whole team and not just Eden or the winger himself. I haven't seen Chelsea do that in a good way consistently. Mostly the pitch is too stretched and the gap between defense/midfield and attack (or midfield and attack) is too big.

By the way, didn't Mata play CAM and Eden more at the right?

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I watched him quite closely yesterday. Was he that bad? Or are we just being a bit too unrealistic with what we want from young Eden?

no, not bad, just anonymous. as an attacker should do more, right?

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