The English Football Thread

[Jype 6,398]

2 minutes ago, Laylabelle said:

Unbeaten at home...theyll probably want to keep that going

Most likely yeah. But their players don't really seem up for the challenge anymore, only 3 wins out of 7 after the break.

Remains to be seen what their motivation level going into next week is (home record, lifting the trophy after the game) but they're not unbeatable by any means.

[killer1257 3,282]

If we play on the counter attack, which I expect us to do because Kante will be probably fit, so there would be no Jorgi. I can see us make some deadly coutner attacks with Pulisic, Kovacic and maybe Mount. But Lampard has to rest all of the players that will play for Liverpool. The Pool game needs to be played like a final

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[Vesper 30,088]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

Someone needs to end that before they catch up with our record!

no time like that game for us to put paid to the challenge 

[Laylabelle 9,534]

Just now, Jype said:

Most likely yeah. But their players don't really seem up for the challenge anymore, only 3 wins out of 7 after the break.

Remains to be seen what their motivation level going into next week is (home record, lifting the trophy after the game) but they're not unbeatable by any means.

Nah definitely not unbeatable..but depends what side of ours turns up. Play like last week and its gana be a long 90

[Jype 6,398]

7 minutes ago, Jason said:

Someone needs to end that before they catch up with our record!

Wasn't it Liverpool who ended our run?

It's only fair to return the favor.  

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Jype said:

Wasn't it Liverpool who ended our run?

It's only fair to return the favor.  

They did, thanks to a bloody fortunate Alonso goal! 

[Pizy 18,852]

9 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Arteta could be a monster if he is backed with his style of players (and quality)

he deffo has that baby Pep swagger rolling

Meh. They looked hopeless and barely touched the ball up until the VVD mistake.

They probably don't have the funds to buy all the necessary players to compete. Don't see them getting near the top 4 once again next season.

[Vesper 30,088]

i said it two or so weeks ago

and now it is even more true

the dippers have went off the rails

its now 5 months

6 wins 6 losses 2 draws, and 3 of their wins were 1 goal squeakers against shit

22 points dropped in 14 games

they beat zero teams of quality and were smashed 3 times (4 times if you count AM thrashing them 4 2 on aggregate)

[Laylabelle 9,534]

I guess Liverpool don't care so much. Obviously records are great but they've won the main prize. That's in the bag. They can afford to drop points here and there. No one will be that fussed end of the day. Still get their party 

 

[Vesper 30,088]

15 minutes ago, Laylabelle said:

I guess Liverpool don't care so much. Obviously records are great but they've won the main prize. That's in the bag. They can afford to drop points here and there. No one will be that fussed end of the day. Still get their party 

 

Klopp surely must be worried, they are on a 5 month, 14 game overall shit run

if not for us choking on pens in the Super Cup and them scraping out an extra time win against a meh Flamengo squad, they would have ended up with ONE trophy out of a possible seven (granted, the biggest one (for them), the league)

they are not getting any younger (only 3more years max that front three is a prime, peak force) and they have fuckall for depth in so many areas

[Vesper 30,088]

lol at Sky Sports

a documentary on George Weah

they said when he joined Chels in 2000 on a 6 month loan that he joined a team already loaded with superstar firepower such as Gianfranco Zola ,Tore Andre Flo, and CHRIS SUTTON

roflmaooooooooooooo

[Vesper 30,088]

2 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

Has Emmy Martinez put a single foot wrong since coming in for Leno? He is so surehanded, composed and strong in the air, how did he go unnoticed his whole career?

he had a fairly blääää game in the loss to spuds, he had a horrid pass out that they were lucky spuds did not score on, and also was caught napping to point on the header that won the game

but he has played better than Kepa since Leno went down

[DDA 9,924]

I have to say, I really like Arteta. I think he will become a top, top coach in the years to come. He is extremely well measured in his approach. Let's hope he doesn't get the financial backing at Arsenal (you never know) because I think he will cause serious damage. 

[Vesper 30,088]

What ‘vindicated’ Guardiola really meant when he came out swinging

https://theathletic.com/1928020/2020/07/15/pep-guardiola-cas-manchester-city

The press conference is not Pep Guardiola’s natural habitat, but on Tuesday he delivered a masterclass in how to get a message across. Several messages, in fact.

Manchester City fans — and indeed his employers at the club — will be delighted with the 25 minutes that were set aside, nominally, to discuss Wednesday’s home game against Bournemouth.

Of course, every single question related to the Court of Arbitration for Sport’s decision to overturn City’s ban from the Champions League.

Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp had already declared, “I am happy that City can play in the Champions League but I don’t think it was a good day for football yesterday, to be honest”, before expanding on why he wants Financial Fair Play rules to stay.

Jose Mourinho had also had his say. “If Manchester City is not guilty of it, to be punished by some million is a disgrace,” said the Tottenham boss at his own pre-match press conference. “If you’re not guilty, you’re not punished. In the other way, if you’re guilty you should be banned. In any case, it’s a disaster.”

Guardiola seemed to have his answers prepared, and he took the opportunity to call out some old rivals and quite possibly some new ones.

The Catalan responded to some of City’s noisiest critics — like La Liga president Javier Tebas and former Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger — and rounded on those he accused of “whispering”, including direct references to Liverpool, Manchester United and the other “top eight” clubs.

For the first time, though, Guardiola made comments which will strike a chord with the club’s supporters, who have long claimed that Europe’s top clubs act as the established elite and are desperate to shut City out. No senior City employee has spoken in such striking terms before.

Sometimes, Guardiola’s points can fail to clear the language barrier, or at least the sarcasm barrier. When he has responded or goaded certain clubs or figures in the past, such as Real Madrid, it has been hard to know whether he even meant to ruffle some feathers in the first place. Here though, there were no doubts.

Guardiola’s most memorable soundbites are often born out of defiance — “What’s tackles?” he famously claimed after a defeat at Leicester in his debut season — but they are few and far between and you would have to collate four years’ worth of press conferences to get nearly half an hour’s worth of sarcastic comments and stubborn rebuttals.

Until Tuesday, that is, when he sat down to get several years’ worth of frustration off his chest. Not everybody will agree with what he said, or indeed how he said it, but there can be no doubt about what he, or the club who pay his wages, feel about their rivals at home and abroad.

Here is what he said, who he addressed and what it meant…

How do you feel about the CAS decision?

Guardiola: I’m incredibly happy for the decision. It shows that everything people said about the club was not true. We will defend on the pitch what we won on the pitch.

Guardiola actually appeared quite subdued, even grumpy. His first answer was short and sweet, but it set the tone for the rest of the press conference, where he would talk much more expansively and specifically.

Firstly, he tried to put the focus back on the achievements of his players on the pitch. Remember that he told them the day after City were banned from the Champions League in February that they should “show people that you are talent — not money.”

Jose Mourinho branded the decision “disgraceful”…

Guardiola: Jose and other managers should know that we were damaged; we should be apologised to because, as I’ve said many times, if we did something wrong we will accept the decision from UEFA and CAS because we did something wrong.

This is something Guardiola has said repeatedly but with City’s ban overturned he had no reason for contrition. He rounded on those members of the Premier League’s top 10 — all but Sheffield United and City themselves — who collectively urged UEFA in March to ensure the ban would stand for next season, insinuating that City would move to delay their appeal and ensure they could play in Europe in 2020-21.

Guardiola: We don’t expect Liverpool, Tottenham, Arsenal, Chelsea or Wolves and the other clubs to defend us but we have the right to defend ourselves when we believe what we have done is correct, and three judges — independent judges — said this. Today is a good day. Yesterday was a good day for football, because we play by the same FFP rules as all the clubs in Europe.

If we had broken FFP, we would have been banned but we have to defend ourselves because we were right and three judges gave us the reason. People said we were cheating and lying many times and the presumption of innocence was not there. After, when we were proved right, we were incredibly happy because we can again defend what we have done on the pitch.

Later, Guardiola was asked directly about those eight clubs.

He nodded his head intently and had clearly worked out what he was going to say before the question had finished (Look out for the emphasis on the second mention of Liverpool).

Guardiola: The first point, for all these clubs — Arsenal, Chelsea, Leicester, Wolves, Manchester United, Tottenham, Liverpool, Liverpool!, Burnley… I understand they want the five positions for the Champions League. I can understand. What they ask is that they didn’t want us to delay the process for the next season, so we could play in the Champions League. (But) we were so clear, we said, “Yeah, we completely agree with you, eight clubs, we want the resolution from CAS as soon as possible to clarify this.”

Because I said all the time in my press conferences, if we did something wrong and we needed to be banned we will be banned and we will accept it. So I completely agreed with these eight clubs to go to CAS and make their resolution. And the resolution is there, so that’s why they must be happy. They must be happy because we didn’t break the rules. We played the same rules as all the clubs in the Premier League and UEFA — so that’s why.

So next time before they (go) and make phone calls, they can call our chairman or CEO and say, “Guys, all these clubs, this is what we are going to do.” We were on the same page. So unfortunately just four teams can play in the Champions League next season, not the five.

That is an emphatic sign-off, almost lording it over those clubs that there is no extra position available for another English side in the Champions League, which he believes was the driving factor behind their letter.

And the emphasis on Liverpool was delivered with what is probably best described as mock surprise.

The other clubs, Guardiola believes, wanted City banned because it would make it easier for them to qualify for the Champions League via fifth place. Liverpool, of course, had no such concerns and, as Klopp pointed out, City not playing in Europe next season would only have harmed Liverpool’s chances of retaining the Premier League title. Guardiola poses the question — so why did they want City banned?

What about your contract?

This is a classic of Guardiola press conferences: answering a question that wasn’t asked. He insists the time to discuss his future will come but quickly pivoted to settling some scores with Wenger — whom he addressed directly — and Manchester United, who matched Leicester’s asking price for Harry Maguire last season when City decided not to pay it.

Guardiola: This club is incredibly solid with Pep and without Pep. So don’t be troubled. This club had success before my arrival here, with (Roberto) Mancini and with (Manuel) Pellegrini, they won a lot of titles and they played really good football. So without me, when I leave — I don’t know when that will be — the structure of the club wants to grow and to be solid, this is the most important thing. And they have incredible players, incredible players, this is the reason why. We have that and we want to keep it, we have to reinforce as much as we can because we wanted…

…and here he goes…

We have a lot of money, but we wanted Alexis Sanchez and we could not afford it. We wanted Harry Maguire and we could not afford it. We could not pay like United paid. So we have money, but the other clubs have money too. We spend in the last decade more than we did in the past, yes, but 20, 25, 30 years ago, Arsene Wenger — the guy who defends perfectly Financial Fair Play… so Arsene, you know that Manchester City was correct with what we have done — spent a lot of money to be there. United with Sir Alex Ferguson spent a lot of money to be there. All the clubs, if you want to be on top, all the clubs (spend); if you don’t, it’s more difficult.

Because being a good manager, like I am, I’m not good enough without good players. No way. I am humble enough to accept that without my players I am nothing, zero, that’s why I need my players, and for that I need clubs who are financially strong — like a lot of clubs — to do it.

Do you expect rivals to stop criticising City after CAS’s verdict?

Guardiola: It would be nice, but I don’t think so. What happened in recent years, how many times people came to our club to whisper about us. I would love it to finish, I would like to say to these kinds of people, “Look into our eyes and say something face to face,” and then go to the pitch and play on the pitch and after, if they beat us, don’t hesitate, I will shake their hands and we will congratulate them. But they lost off the pitch. They have to go on the pitch and try to beat us.

I said many times here, if we did something wrong we accept our ban from FIFA, UEFA, Premier League, FA. But we can defend ourselves — I guess — and yesterday was a great day for football, not a bad day for football, because it showed that we play by the same rules that all the elite clubs in the Premier League and Europe play by. If it was the opposite we could not play in the Champions League next season but we can play it next season because what we have done is right. It was proper. That’s why they have to accept it, go on the pitch and play against us there.

This was the first time in his press conference that he talked about clubs “whispering”, and harks back to his chairman Khaldoon Al Mubarak’s end-of-season interview 12 months ago. City were still under investigation by UEFA and also faced the possibility of a transfer ban from FIFA, which was later dismissed. The City chairman said: “The football world is very small and word comes around very quickly so, you know, when someone somewhere in a leading position in any club says something, or briefs something, guess what? We know about it.”

With City feeling “vindicated” — as CEO Ferran Soriano’s Monday email to staff read — Guardiola was in no mood for reconciliation.

Will you extend your contract?

The 49-year-old insisted Monday’s verdict does not change too much and that there is still plenty of time to discuss it, but he did drop in a touch more defiance.

Guardiola: Some people here in England suggested that we should play in League Two… (If we did) I would stay here.

Javier Tebas suggested CAS was not fit to hear City’s appeal…

Guardiola: He’s another one. This guy, Senor Tebas, must be so jealous of English football. He’s an incredible legal expert from what I see, maybe next time I’ll ask him which court and judges we have to go to. He has to be worried and concerned about La Liga and focus on there, but normally with these kinds of people when the sentence is good for him it is perfect — as has happened many times in Spain — but when it is against him, the problem is for the other ones. We will be in the Champions League next season, Senor Tebas, because what we did, we did it properly.

This was Guardiola at his sarcastic, settling-old-scores best. That slightly subdued start to the press conference was well and truly behind him now. Tebas is a long-time critic of City’s spending and the source of their funding yet, as Guardiola referenced, has not had much to say about Barcelona’s and Real Madrid’s various run-ins with the footballing authorities. Yet when Guardiola was fined by the FA in 2018 for wearing a yellow ribbon in support of Catalonia’s politicians, Tebas said he was “in favour” of the decision.

It also brings to mind Guardiola’s criticism of former club Barcelona in February, when he warned them not to “talk too loud” after their chairman thanked UEFA for banning City, and added, somewhat menacingly, that he hoped the two sides can meet on the pitch — which could happen in this season’s Champions League semi-finals.

Do City get respect?

Guardiola: This club tried for the whole history, at Maine Road or with our heroes like Colin Bell or Mike Summerbee, the legends that we have had, including Joe Hart in recent years, we have done our best to do it on the pitch. What this club has done in the last decade has been done on the pitch.

I know that for elite clubs — especially Liverpool, United, Arsenal — it is uncomfortable us being here, but they have to understand we deserve to be with them, competing with them. We want to go on the pitch competing with them and try to achieve the things that they have achieved in the past, decades ago. We deserve to be stronger year by year. We try.

There are incredible people working in this organisation, working incredibly hard to make this club better and make our fans proud. We don’t have to ask permission to be there, we deserve to be there. When we lose, I will shake the hand of my opponents and colleagues, as we have done — sometimes unfairly in the Champions League and Premier League — and congratulate them as all the time we have done.

It’s as simple as that. So, guys — accept it. We want to be here, and we tried. On the pitch, we play as much as possible. Sometimes we win, sometimes not, but they have to understand it. If they don’t agree, just knock on the door for our chairman or our CEO and talk, don’t go from behind and have seven, eight, nine clubs whispering and going from behind. Go and do it on the pitch, not behind, because this is not a club for 10 years. In these 10 years, this club has made a step forward.

We have invested a lot of money — like a lot of clubs — but in these 10 years we did the right thing because if not, we would be banned. And we are not banned, because we followed the FFP rules, the rules that UEFA and FIFA have decided to do. If not, we would be banned and could not play. We play because we have done things properly, in the right way. That’s why we follow the UEFA rules. They dictate what we have to do, and we do it. People have to understand right now that we are here to try to compete on the pitch and at the same level as the elite clubs in the Premier League but in Europe too. We can be here.

This is the first time anybody at City has publicly addressed the common suggestion from supporters that Europe’s top clubs — the established elite — do not want City at the table, and that they have tried to get them kicked out. “Guys — accept it” is a message that will delight the club’s fans, and sums up the mood around the club this week.

It is not the first time, however, that Guardiola has referred to the “unfair” refereeing/VAR decisions his side have experienced in recent years. The deliberate emphasis on “sometimes unfairly” was indicative of his mood on the day: he was out to make several points and did not want any subtleties to be missed.

Will City now do their talking on the pitch?

Guardiola: Yeah, like we have done every game in every competition (in) the last three or four years. We will respect our opponents and try to beat them on the pitch. People cannot forget, we were damaged. Our prestige and reputation was damaged with accusations that now we have shown were not true. That’s why they have to be happy, or should at least accept — because we should complain and we haven’t, so the other ones shouldn’t say much more than this.

Again, for all their defiant statements against UEFA in the past year or so, City have not spoken out against other clubs as much as they would perhaps have liked. Guardiola’s assertion that City “should complain and we haven’t” makes it clear the club have chosen not to make public comments — for example in their ongoing feud with Bayern Munich.

Are rival Premier League clubs jealous of City’s spending?

Guardiola may have rounded on City’s rivals, but he was not about to let the wording of the question slide: he has said for many years now that City spend similarly to other top clubs and that those clubs needed a period of spending to establish themselves as the elite, a word on which he put great emphasis in this answer.

Guardiola: Listen, a lot of clubs invest. United, Arsenal, in periods before they won all the leagues, they invested more money than the other ones. When Chelsea started to win Premier Leagues, they invested more money than the other ones. I’m a good manager but I don’t win titles if I don’t have good players and good players are expensive. But all the clubs spend a lot of money. Barcelona spend a lot of money, (Real) Madrid spend a lot of money, English teams spend a lot of money. But if we build the club in the last decade to compete with the elite of the Premier League or Champions League, we need to invest.

We invested by creating incredible facilities here in the training ground and we do it, and we make mistakes, of course we make mistakes, but we do it. We can spend as much money as our chairman or our owners want, but always, always in the Financial Fair Play rules and we showed it, we were there.

In the last decade — FIFA, UEFA — we were exonerated for something we were accused of, all the time. That is the reality. We can be there, like all the clubs, but always on the pitch. When we won here, guys, it was on the pitch. All the good things we have done, all the bad things we have done, it was on the pitch, in the grass, in the green, there. We win, we want to be congratulated. They beat us, we are going to congratulate them.

Has all this brought you closer to the club?

Guardiola: I love this club. I love because I know the people here and I’m working for a long time. We have our history. I don’t know if it’s better or worse, it doesn’t matter, it’s our history. I love it. I like it. I like to work with the people I’m working with, I like it.

When we do something wrong, I’m the first to say we have to apologise or have to accept the punishment or whatever, the big statements, they can do it. But it was not the case. It was not the case. I don’t want to apologise for anything. I’m sorry, guys. Manchester City don’t have (to) apologise because the three independent judges decided we have done everything properly. It’s clear. More than clear, it’s impossible.

So, of course I’m going to defend my club, and I’m critical of my club. Internally, when I don’t like something, I say to my chairman. My chairman is not happy with me because we are 21 points behind Liverpool. He’s not happy with me, but we discuss internally to try and do better next season, to convince them — but always on the pitch. And the people who say something, go ahead and tell us here face to face, not behind.

“Sorry, guys” is a go-to line when Guardiola is in defiant mood. When his style was questioned after a defeat by Barcelona in 2016, he said, “I’ve won 21 trophies in seven years. Sorry, guys.” And when those questions kept coming after elimination from the Champions League by Monaco later that season, he pointed out: “I think ‘exceptional’ for all the managers around the world is that sometimes during the season they win a title. That is the normal situation all around the world. Exceptional is my career, I’m sorry, that is exceptional.”

Proof that he can drop the humility when he believes he and his club are called into question unfairly.

How do you feel about Mourinho and Klopp criticising the CAS decision?

Guardiola: All I say is that all of them (have) their opinions, for Jurgen and Jose, but I tell Jose and Jurgen that today was a good day for football. A very good day. It was clear what happened. And that’s nice.

Funnily enough, there were no questions about the Bournemouth game.

[Jase 43,479]

6 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

It was very close distance but the arm is in a very unnatural position and the elbow moves towards the ball pushing it away, IMO a clear pen.

I agree but I assumed in real time, Doherty was trying to protect himself from the overhead kick/high boot. The movement/position of the hand was not in the natural position but surely some common sense was/is needed with the PK rules?