Chelsea 5-0 West Ham

[robsblubot 3,595]

4 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Lmao never change TalkChelsea never change. You’d think Caicedo was fucking Bakayoko with the way some members speak about him. 😂

 

Christ almighty he’s more than fine on the ball. This game alone I saw Caicedo drop the shoulder and send Paqueta back to Brazil and dribble past the entire west ham midfield. As far as through balls/xT are concerned, either you are pretending to not see them to suit your agenda or you’re blind as a bat.  

https://www.sofascore.com/player/moises-caicedo/987650
or do you only use stats when it suits your agenda? welcome to find any piece of data that corroborates your view of Caicedo's game.
I will definitely take a look and consider it as new data, as it may contain something I missed.

[King Kante 1,643]

49 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Lmao never change TalkChelsea never change. You’d think Caicedo was fucking Bakayoko with the way some members speak about him. 😂

 

Christ almighty he’s more than fine on the ball. This game alone I saw Caicedo drop the shoulder and send Paqueta back to Brazil and dribble past the entire west ham midfield. As far as through balls/xT are concerned, either you are pretending to not see them to suit your agenda or you’re blind as a bat.  

1) Not true, that isn't what people are saying. Caicedo is a functional player, just not one with the required technical skills to be an elite player or a player to drag his team through games when the chips are down. 

2) Hyperbole. West Ham lined up in a 4231 formation. Please post a video/gif of where he dribbled past five WH players. Even fecking Hazard only went past three we he scored that beautiful goal against them. 

3) Evidence please. 

Edited May 5, 2024 by King Kante

[Thor 2,692]

42 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

https://www.sofascore.com/player/moises-caicedo/987650
or do you only use stats when it suits your agenda? welcome to find any piece of data that corroborates your view of Caicedo's game.
I will definitely take a look and consider it as new data, as it may contain something I missed.

What stats are you pointing to exactly, because that shows very good stats... lol

[King Kante 1,643]

5 minutes ago, Thor said:

What stats are you pointing to exactly, because that shows very good stats... lol

If you do a season average score comparison between Gallagher and Caicedo, Gallagher has the higher score and he is meant to be so sh*t that most of the forum wanted him sold in the summer at any cost. This is also before considering Gallagher has only just recently been put in his natural position whereas Caicedo has played in his all season. 

Edited May 5, 2024 by King Kante

[robsblubot 3,595]

3 minutes ago, Thor said:

What stats are you pointing to exactly, because that shows very good stats... lol

"Very good stats." that's not the discussion here. 🙂 
I'm pointing out the skill side of his game, esp in attack, which was the *specific* point I was replying to.

[Thor 2,692]

3 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

"Very good stats." that's not the discussion here. 🙂 
I'm pointing out the skill side of his game, esp in attack, which was the *specific* point I was replying to.

His role is to sit behind and act as the deterrent. What stats did you want him to have? He has significantly more progressive passing and pass completion compared to Conor over the season... What more proof do you want - or are you using a single game pool of data to harp on? 

He isn't asked to play the same role as Brighton exactly. Conor is the one that pushes more forward. In reality, these two should be replacing each other on a week to week basis and we should have more of a DM. 

Caceido is the one that is fitting more into a DM role kind of like how Kante was asked to play out of position in Sarri ball and people were saying he fell off or wasn't as good - which just wasn't the case as we saw a year later. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

7 minutes ago, Thor said:

His role is to sit behind and act as the deterrent. What stats did you want him to have? He has significantly more progressive passing and pass completion compared to Conor over the season... What more proof do you want - or are you using a single game pool of data to harp on? 

He isn't asked to play the same role as Brighton exactly. Conor is the one that pushes more forward. In reality, these two should be replacing each other on a week to week basis and we should have more of a DM. 

Caceido is the one that is fitting more into a DM role kind of like how Kante was asked to play out of position in Sarri ball and people were saying he fell off or wasn't as good - which just wasn't the case as we saw a year later. 

yes, Gallagher is certainly the mid with most freedom esp when Enzo does not play. I just don't see Caicedo having the skillset needed to thrive when moving into these contested areas, it takes a different type of player more in the mould of Enzo. What he did at Brighton might have been important at the time we signed him--now I rather just take what I see from 31 appearances.

My main concern is that the role in question, the deterrent as you call it (aka ball-winning mid), does not even exist in the team that wins the league every year.

[Strike 7,478]

Midfield unit looks stronger because of Cucurella tweak. No longer leaving <many> empty spaces to attack at least. Long way to go but last few weeks have been something (except for the Arsenal game)

[Strike 7,478]

8 hours ago, robsblubot said:

yes, Gallagher is certainly the mid with most freedom esp when Enzo does not play. I just don't see Caicedo having the skillset needed to thrive when moving into these contested areas, it takes a different type of player more in the mould of Enzo. What he did at Brighton might have been important at the time we signed him--now I rather just take what I see from 31 appearances.

My main concern is that the role in question, the deterrent as you call it (aka ball-winning mid), does not even exist in the team that wins the league every year.

Yeah, even the ball-winning mid needs to be able to break the lines, progress the ball. I don't think Caicedo is out of his depth and I think he can contribute. Anyway we are locked in with him for 8 years. 

[YorkshireBlue 3,268]

9 hours ago, King Kante said:

If you do a season average score comparison between Gallagher and Caicedo, Gallagher has the higher score and he is meant to be so sh*t that most of the forum wanted him sold in the summer at any cost. This is also before considering Gallagher has only just recently been put in his natural position whereas Caicedo has played in his all season. 

I think your confusing "most of the Forum" with our 3 or 4 residents with Thier 3 or 4 word posts that are just hear to gaslight. 

[King Kante 1,643]

2 hours ago, YorkshireBlue said:

I think your confusing "most of the Forum" with our 3 or 4 residents with Thier 3 or 4 word posts that are just hear to gaslight. 

I would have said it was more than that from recollection but point noted equally.

[nyikolajevics 2,690]

12 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Lmao never change TalkChelsea never change. You’d think Caicedo was fucking Bakayoko with the way some members speak about him. 😂

 

Come on, this is not only TC, football fans are often like this. During/after games, easy to make statements which can are over to top or turn out to be laughing stock later. Even many respected managers made comments which are completely ridiculous retrospectively.

 

13 hours ago, King Kante said:

Disas(ter)i category yet where I am saying that he shouldn't be anywhere near the first XI ever

Just wanted to appriciate the pun, can you make one with Badiashile aswell?

[Reddish-Blue 2,495]

11 hours ago, robsblubot said:

the deterrent as you call it (aka ball-winning mid), does not even exist in the team that wins the league every year.

We won the league with Obi Mikel in midfield back in the day and I don't recall him making too many forward runs. 

I agree with the point but our first goal should be trying to be competitive and becoming a top 4 side again before worrying about 'winning' the league. 

11 hours ago, King Kante said:

If you do a season average score comparison between Gallagher and Caicedo, Gallagher has the higher score and he is meant to be so sh*t that most of the forum wanted him sold in the summer at any cost

Gallagher's scores will likely be higher as he has goals/assists to his name.  I've seen quite a few of those statistical websites and they tend to skew in favor of midfielders that score the odd goal and get the odd assist in games....like let's say the midfielder has a generally poor game, losing the ball quite a bit, losing his duels/tackles etc but he pops up with a goal/assist and suddenly that 6.0 performance becomes 7.2 or higher. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,378]

14 hours ago, King Kante said:

1) Not true, that isn't what people are saying. Caicedo is a functional player, just not one with the required technical skills to be an elite player or a player to drag his team through games when the chips are down. 

2) Hyperbole. West Ham lined up in a 4231 formation. Please post a video/gif of where he dribbled past five WH players. Even fecking Hazard only went past three we he scored that beautiful goal against them. 

3) Evidence please. 

 You were just shown a video demonstrating Caicedo's ability with the ball and you disregarded it saying "NOPE. WON"T CHANGE MY MIND I SEE HIM EVERY WEEK."  Why should anyone waste their time convincing you? 😂

 

For arguments sake, last 3 matches alone where he provided influence in both the attacking and defensive end. 

VS Villa when we needed to get back into the game. 

@0:20 splits midfield for Palmer to turn and play Jackson

@0:23 Lob to find Jackson who scores but ruled offsides marginally.

@0:56 Expected Threat

@1:17 Dink to Jackson

@1:30 split through ball to Madueke

VS Spurs were he was instructed to dominate the midfield. Lost track of how many tackles he won. 

@1:55 drops the shoulder and sends Bentancur back to Uruguay. 

 

VS West Ham

 

 

14 hours ago, robsblubot said:

"Very good stats." that's not the discussion here. 🙂 
I'm pointing out the skill side of his game, esp in attack, which was the *specific* point I was replying to.

Yes we need our DM to be an expansive goal scoring midfielder/assist machine for us to be a title winning side. 

Someone tell Makalele, Matic, Mikel, and Kante to return their Premier League winners medals because they weren't goal scorers/pass masters.  Just wished we only improved on them...

Edited May 6, 2024 by MoroccanBlue

[robsblubot 3,595]

2 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

 You were just shown a video demonstrating Caicedo's ability with the ball and you disregarded it saying "NOPE. WON"T CHANGE MY MIND I SEE HIM EVERY WEEK."  Why should anyone waste their time convincing you? 😂

 

For arguments sake, last 3 matches alone where he provided influence in both the attacking and defensive end. 

VS Villa when we needed to get back into the game. 

@0:20 splits midfield for Palmer to turn and play Jackson

@0:23 Lob to find Jackson who scores but ruled offsides marginally.

@0:56 Expected Threat

@1:17 Dink to Jackson

@1:30 split through ball to Madueke

VS Spurs were he was instructed to dominate the midfield. Lost track of how many tackles he won. 

@1:55 drops the shoulder and sends Bentancur back to Uruguay. 

 

VS West Ham

 

 

Yes we need our DM to be an expansive goal scoring midfielder/assist machine for us to be a title winning side. 

Someone tell Makalele, Matic, Mikel, and Kante to return their Premier League winners medals because they weren't goal scorers/pass masters.  Just wished we only improved on them...

Wow you went back a few years there buddy. Claiming football remains the same? 

where do you see makalele player lifting silverware? Because when I watch the top teams in the world their DMs are indeed exactly the player you mock above. 😆

isn’t Bellingham exactly what you describe? Isn’t Rodri more of what you describe? Isn’t Rice that also? His attacking numbers show exactly that.

Why so quick to dismiss the possibility that the requirement to win the league again is indeed going for the positional play? Yes I wonder about it.

Edited May 6, 2024 by robsblubot