Welcome Mauricio Pochettino

[lucio 5,418]

10 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

I missed nothing, I merely disagreed with your point, but that seems like an alien concept these days on this forum.

"The argument here is that managers have a very significant effect on the players performance and can do so instantly."
Disagreed.

BTW, your evidence is incorrect: you cannot do AB testing without control.

new managers have an immediate impact all the time. If it wasn't the case, you wouldn't see clubs threatened with relegation routinely fire managers as a last attempt to stay up

[robsblubot 3,508]

Just now, lucio said:

those guys all had a big run of games in their normal position. I was thinking of maatsen more as a wb in a back 3/5 yes. It would benefit the old silva and help colwill settle as a back 3 too, a good manager would have seen this.

Even if we had a perfect squad - would you want Poch? for me he'd still put the team at a competitive disadvantage as we'd be fighting against clubs with much better managers. 

Do you see him winning PL/CL , if not , what's the goal? if we want to win those trophies again we'd have to sack him somewhere down the line anyway. If our ambitions are lower now,  we could have midtable mediocrity with potter and save a bunch of money

yeah not trying 3atb was baffling to me as well. 

No I don’t see poch winning anything nor would I want him here long term, but I still think football is players and we don’t have them.

Playing marginally better isn’t good enough for me.

[Chuckso 17]

13 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

I missed nothing, I merely disagreed with your point, but that seems like an alien concept these days on this forum.

"The argument here is that managers have a very significant effect on the players performance and can do so instantly."
Disagreed.

BTW, your evidence is incorrect: you cannot do AB testing without control.

I am pretty sure if we do get a competent manager next, the argument - to save face - would be that the players are now a few months older and as such have miraculously become the talents we knew they were when we bought them. 

[robsblubot 3,508]

2 minutes ago, lucio said:

new managers have an immediate impact all the time. If it wasn't the case, you wouldn't see clubs threatened with relegation routinely fire managers as a last attempt to stay up

They produce a marginal and temporary boost mostly due to a new take in the locker room. Usually does not last long nor does it work. Teams who change manager midway through campaigns are usually the ones in trouble and also the ones who drop.

Good managers make good players click. There little that can be done with bad players. Other than parking the bus and hoping for a miracle that is.

Everyone is talking about Liverpool kids, but how about mudryk and madueke who came on with fresh legs and did what? 

[robsblubot 3,508]

1 minute ago, Chuckso said:

I am pretty sure if we do get a competent manager next, the argument - to save face - would be that the players are now a few months older and as such have miraculously become the talents we knew they were when we bought them. 

No, some of these players are shit. That’s my take. Better system can marginally improve the play but significantly improve them? Nope

I will be right or wrong in a fee months, but I have a feeling the club will try to shake things up.

some are actually so young that a second, or first, preseason might actually help regardless of manager.

speaking of which, we focus too much on the manager where it is the club and its myriad of coaches who have a bigger impact on improving players.

[Chuckso 17]

28 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

No, some of these players are shit. That’s my take. Better system can marginally improve the play but significantly improve them? Nope

I will be right or wrong in a fee months, but I have a feeling the club will try to shake things up.

some are actually so young that a second, or first, preseason might actually help regardless of manager.

speaking of which, we focus too much on the manager where it is the club and its myriad of coaches who have a bigger impact on improving players.

Haha. I called it. The excuse is in your post.

P.S Xabi Alonso did not need a preseason for his team. They started winning immediately. 
There are many other examples of high impact, no excuses managers. Our players are carrying your Poch.
 

Edited February 27 by Chuckso

[robsblubot 3,508]

7 hours ago, Chuckso said:

Haha. I called it. The excuse is in your post.

P.S Xabi Alonso did not need a preseason for his team. They started winning immediately. 
There are many other examples of high impact, no excuses managers. 

Nope I was referring to the good players 😆
Some of these players need to be shipped far far way -- they are not even PL material.

And there are thousands more of good managers not being able to do much with poor rosters. It's actually difficult to establish causality with so many different variables, club and its many professionals involved.

A top PL club like Chelsea usually have the best coaches money can buy. Defensive, goalie, set pieces, you name it. Best physios, fitness coaches, etc. Why would the manager have that much of an impact on developing players? How come players develop well despite having multiple different managers often at the same club? Managers come and go.

Why do clubs like to buy very young players from lower leagues? their top coaches will have more time to work with these players. I totally get improving players--I just don't tie it to the manager that much.

Edited February 28 by robsblubot

[robsblubot 3,508]

Now, just for fun, I'm going to be mean. 😅

If you believe a manager has a big impact on developing players -- I don't, I think they have a much bigger impact on team performance -- would it be fair to give him credit for Sun and Kane? 🤭

If I were arguing with ... myself, I'd claim that Sun kept on developing just fine after Poch left and he's now a much better player than he was back then. That spurs must hire good coaches, have good facilities, and for that reason are able to develop their players regardless who is the manager.

Edited February 28 by robsblubot

[Blue Armour 4,289]

3 hours ago, robsblubot said:

Now, just for fun, I'm going to be mean. 😅

If you believe a manager has a big impact on developing players -- I don't I think they have a much bigger impact on team performance -- would it be fair to give him credit for Sun and Kane? 🤭

If I were arguing with ... myself, I'd claim that Sun kept on developing just fine after Poch left and he's now a much better player than he was back then. That spurs must hire good coaches, have good facilities, and for that reason are able to develop their players regardless who is the manager.

To go with an old Mourinho quote., you need good eggs to make a good omelet.

Unfortunately in Chelsea's case., we have a mediocre chef AND low grade eggs. 

 

Edited February 28 by Blue Armour

[Fulham Broadway 16,859]

7 hours ago, robsblubot said:

Now, just for fun, I'm going to be mean. 😅

If you believe a manager has a big impact on developing players -- I don't I think they have a much bigger impact on team performance -- would it be fair to give him credit for Sun and Kane? 🤭

If I were arguing with ... myself, I'd claim that Sun kept on developing just fine after Poch left and he's now a much better player than he was back then. That spurs must hire good coaches, have good facilities, and for that reason are able to develop their players regardless who is the manager.

There was some study similar to ones showing that orchestras dont need conductors,  (cant recall where now) whereby the results more or less showed the manager was irrelevant to a large degree, the impact on performance minimal.

[milka 3,346]

Players develop when around them they have experience, class, a level to chase, we don't have that, so I don't see what we are developing Mount, James, Tomori developed because they had Azpilicueta, Rudiger, Alonso, Jorginho, Giroud, Kante around them. In a top club, what we are doing is pure suicide if your entire team is inexperienced youngsters who, besides everything, arrive from mediocre championships such as Ukraine, Netherland, Brazil.

Real Madrid kept people like Modric to learn from him for a year, Bellingham, Kamavinga and the rest of their young players, but we will make a revolution and we will only be with youngsters.

[gdlk 272]

How can you say that we have been tired vs Liverpool C team and kids.. So lame excuses.. They played hard match in the midweek while we had 1 whole week to prepare.. And at the end we were tired. 

[Special Juan 27,429]

You know when they are on their last legs is when they start chatting shite that makes no sense and the excuses become weaker.

Lose tonight he is gone

[gdlk 272]

I think we will drop intensity at 65-70 min again if not earlier.. We had hard match and cant prepare for whole week for 1 game, how about 2..

 

[YorkshireBlue 3,122]

17 hours ago, lucio said:

those guys all had a big run of games in their normal position. I was thinking of maatsen more as a wb in a back 3/5 yes. It would benefit the old silva and help colwill settle as a back 3 too, a good manager would have seen this.

Even if we had a perfect squad - would you want Poch? for me he'd still put the team at a competitive disadvantage as we'd be fighting against clubs with much better managers. 

Do you see him winning PL/CL , if not , what's the goal? if we want to win those trophies again we'd have to sack him somewhere down the line anyway. If our ambitions are lower now,  we could have midtable mediocrity with potter and save a bunch of money

This forum has complained about wing backs and the 3 ATB system for years!! Now your saying you want him at wing back? He wasn't good enough here he's moved to a farmers league and playing well, exactly the same as most of the dress that leave here.

17 hours ago, lucio said:

new managers have an immediate impact all the time. If it wasn't the case, you wouldn't see clubs threatened with relegation routinely fire managers as a last attempt to stay up

New managers make an immediate impact in relegation teams for them to either get sacked the season after or get relegated the season after, quick fixes temporary seals the problem but doesn't actually resolve the problem. This team doesn't need a new manager, first and foremost it's need a new recruitment team, you cannot fill a team with kids in every position and expect consistency regardless who the manager is. We have 2 options 

1. Scrap this plan and go back to spending on big names every season, switch managers like are underwear and consistently chasing a settled and the right squad for each managers play style.

2, grit our teeth and hold on to what we are doing and hopefully it works, the reason we are where we are isn't because of the manager, it's because of this apparent new model the club is taking. Potter frank and Poch, doesn't matter.

[lucio 5,418]

12 minutes ago, YorkshireBlue said:

This forum has complained about wing backs and the 3 ATB system for years!! Now your saying you want him at wing back? He wasn't good enough here he's moved to a farmers league and playing well, exactly the same as most of the dress that leave here.

New managers make an immediate impact in relegation teams for them to either get sacked the season after or get relegated the season after, quick fixes temporary seals the problem but doesn't actually resolve the problem. This team doesn't need a new manager, first and foremost it's need a new recruitment team, you cannot fill a team with kids in every position and expect consistency regardless who the manager is. We have 2 options 

1. Scrap this plan and go back to spending on big names every season, switch managers like are underwear and consistently chasing a settled and the right squad for each managers play style.

2, grit our teeth and hold on to what we are doing and hopefully it works, the reason we are where we are isn't because of the manager, it's because of this apparent new model the club is taking. Potter frank and Poch, doesn't matter.

He didn’t play a single game in his natural position here under a manger who thought Sanchez was better than petrovic. You can’t say he wasn’t good enough. Dortmund would abuse us 1 on 1 and he’s good enough for them 

[lucio 5,418]

Well yes , it’s the clubs fault ultimately for hiring complete shit like potter Lampard and poch and ruining the squad. 
but even if we had a perfect squad , poch wouldn’t cut it , so what’s the point ? They’d probably hire another second rate , yes-man loser , that’s the only reason for keeping him , but you’d also have to accept the club is dead at that point 

[lucio 5,418]

30 minutes ago, YorkshireBlue said:

This forum has complained about wing backs and the 3 ATB system for years!! Now your saying you want him at wing back? He wasn't good enough here he's moved to a farmers league and playing well, exactly the same as most of the dress that leave here.

New managers make an immediate impact in relegation teams for them to either get sacked the season after or get relegated the season after, quick fixes temporary seals the problem but doesn't actually resolve the problem. This team doesn't need a new manager, first and foremost it's need a new recruitment team, you cannot fill a team with kids in every position and expect consistency regardless who the manager is. We have 2 options 

1. Scrap this plan and go back to spending on big names every season, switch managers like are underwear and consistently chasing a settled and the right squad for each managers play style.

2, grit our teeth and hold on to what we are doing and hopefully it works, the reason we are where we are isn't because of the manager, it's because of this apparent new model the club is taking. Potter frank and Poch, doesn't matter.

Problem was , we were continuing with 3 atb when our wingbacks (James and chilwell ) were injured so it was just absolute aids,  with gusto and maatsen flying down the flanks it could have been an option , as well as providing additional cover for the elderly silva and inexperienced colwill , would make enzo and caicedo/ gallaghers job easier too 

no , it’s not ideal , a well built and managed team like city , Madrid etc won’t be using 3 atb but we don’t have the players or the technical ability to dominate with other formations , it’s a formation to help less talented teams be competitive, and ultimately we won our last PL and CL with this formation