closed West Ham 3-2 Chelsea

[LAM09 6,558]

On 06/12/2021 at 06:17, Clockwork said:

What can you accomplish in January? That is not the time for long term planning, you do that in the summer. If he is available in Jan, get him to see if he can help you finish the season strong. 
 

We need to do something in the summer about some players we have, our attack is not cutting it. You have serious issue If you are dependent on individual brilliance from your WBs. 

Picking up players like De Bruyne & Salah spring to mind. Effectively, you want us to go back to our old habit of buying players, which are over the hill. Sentiment or not, we need to look further than that. 

How many windows have we spoken about our attacking issues? Havertz, Lukaku, Werner & Ziyech weren't meant to address that?

Out of those four, Havertz is the only one that looked like a solid buy before we signed him, whilst the other three were questionable at best. It's clear that someone other than our manager is picking targets.

[Tomo 21,684]

11 hours ago, LAM09 said:

Picking up players like De Bruyne & Salah spring to mind. Effectively, you want us to go back to our old habit of buying players, which are over the hill. Sentiment or not, we need to look further than that. 

How many windows have we spoken about our attacking issues? Havertz, Lukaku, Werner & Ziyech weren't meant to address that?

Out of those four, Havertz is the only one that looked like a solid buy before we signed him, whilst the other three were questionable at best. It's clear that someone other than our manager is picking targets.

Every players a board signing once they start struggling.

[MoroccanBlue 5,209]

From Lampard's interview with Neville, he basically confirmed that he was never kept in the dark about certain targets the club identified. He was always involved and his input was always heard among the scouting staff. He essentially pushed for all of his signings and Ben Chilwell was his target alone. 

This has to be applied to every manager that's been here recently and judging from Ray Wilkin's biography about Ancelotti and the whole Aguero/Torres dilemma, it should be treated as gospel. 

[LAM09 6,558]

5 hours ago, Tomo said:

Every players a board signing once they start struggling.

Lukaku was a Tuchel signing? If you think so, I don't know what to say.

4 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

From Lampard's interview with Neville, he basically confirmed that he was never kept in the dark about certain targets the club identified. He was always involved and his input was always heard among the scouting staff. He essentially pushed for all of his signings and Ben Chilwell was his target alone. 

This has to be applied to every manager that's been here recently and judging from Ray Wilkin's biography about Ancelotti and the whole Aguero/Torres dilemma, it should be treated as gospel. 

Not being kept in the dark & choosing targets aren't exactly the same. Look no further than Conte's time.

Edited December 8, 2021 by LAM09

[MoroccanBlue 5,209]

5 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

 

Not being kept in the dark & choosing targets aren't exactly the same. Look no further than Conte's time.

You realise Morata, Drinkwater, Zappacosta, Emerson, and Bakayoko were all Conte targets too, right? 

[Tomo 21,684]

10 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

Lukaku was a Tuchel signing? If you think so, I don't know what to say.

Not being kept in the dark & choosing targets aren't exactly the same. Look no further than Conte's time.

We never here about Costa, Kante, Silva, Hazard etc being board signings do we?

Enough said 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Tomo

[LAM09 6,558]

5 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

You realise Morata, Drinkwater, Zappacosta, Emerson, and Bakayoko were all Conte targets too, right? 

They were his first choices or Lukaku/van Dijk as he mentioned?

1 minute ago, Tomo said:

We never here about Costa, Kante, Silva, Hazard etc being board signings do we?

Enough said 

We do. Pick and choose as you will, though.

Edited December 8, 2021 by LAM09

[MoroccanBlue 5,209]

Just now, LAM09 said:

They were his first choices or Lukaku/van Dijk as he mentioned?

His choices. They are all on record. 

What separates Conte from the likes of Pep and Klopp, is that when the right target isn't available, those two don't go after the wrong one. Conte was guilty of that enormously that summer window. 

[LAM09 6,558]

1 minute ago, MoroccanBlue said:

His choices. They are all on record. 

What separates Conte from the likes of Pep and Klopp, is that when the right target isn't available, those two don't go after the wrong one. Conte was guilty of that enormously that summer window. 

You're clearly negating the question. Either way, the past is the past.

[NikkiCFC 7,602]

6 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

His choices. They are all on record. 

What separates Conte from the likes of Pep and Klopp, is that when the right target isn't available, those two don't go after the wrong one. Conte was guilty of that enormously that summer window. 

 

[MoroccanBlue 5,209]

7 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

 

Lying through his teeth then as he was on record stating he wanted Drinkwater and Bakayoko. 

[NikkiCFC 7,602]

Just now, MoroccanBlue said:

Lying through his teeth then as he was on record stating he wanted Drinkwater and Bakayoko. 

Once club offered him them... 

[MoroccanBlue 5,209]

Just now, NikkiCFC said:

Once club offered him them... 

Oh bore off. He specifically said he wanted both because they could play in his system. All of his midfield targets were shite. 

[Jase 43,479]

Should I leave this thread open? 🤣

[NikkiCFC 7,602]

7 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Oh bore off. He specifically said he wanted both because they could play in his system. All of his midfield targets were shite. 

He preferred prime Nainggolan who had best season of his career in 16/17 and Vidal. Also Alex Sandro, VVD... Lukaku over Morata who suits his system...

Btw I am not blaming anyone for poor summer 2017 transfer window. Club could also not do anything because none of them wanted to come here.

[OneMoSalah 8,616]

22 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Lying through his teeth then as he was on record stating he wanted Drinkwater and Bakayoko. 

I don’t think any manager worth their salt at a big club would of wanted Drinkwater.

I also don’t think he specifically said anywhere he wanted him. And if he did want him, he hardly used him so that contradicts any real notion he wanted him because if you want a player surely you play him no?

Bakayoko signings questionable but Conte also said he wanted to keep Matic, not sell him and the club sold him.

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[MoroccanBlue 5,209]

7 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

I don’t think any manager worth their salt at a big club would of wanted Drinkwater.

I also don’t think he specifically said anywhere he wanted him. And if he did want him, he hardly used him so that contradicts any real notion he wanted him because if you want a player surely you play him no?

Bakayoko signings questionable but Conte also said he wanted to keep Matic, not sell him and the club sold him.

 

When interviewed in 2018 he publicly stated he wanted both (Drinwkater and Bakayoko) because of the qualities they brought and that they were tailored to play his systems (352 or 343). This notion that he never wanted either of them is quite honestly ridiculous. 

Also, hindsight is 20/20. At the time Drinkwater was a solid player. No one knew he would completely give up on his footballing career for the drink. 

Conte wanted to keep Matic and then slowly integrate Bakayoko in, but when United come in and offer an absurd transfer amount for a declining player, we were obviously going to sell. 

17 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

He preferred prime Nainggolan who had best season of his career in 16/17 and Vidal. Also Alex Sandro, VVD... Lukaku over Morata who suits his system...

Btw I am not blaming anyone for poor summer 2017 transfer window. Club could also not do anything because none of them wanted to come here.

Nainggolan and Vidal wanted absurd wages and the club has strict policy in offering long term contracts for players over 30. This policy helps the club in long term sustainability. 

Bonucci & Candreva.  Same as above. 

There was Tolisso but he preferred Bayern.

VVD also preferred Liverpool (if you attempt to refute this I genuinely have articles bookmarked stating such)

Spurs were never going to sell us Walker. 

Alex Sandro should of been signed I give you that. (Although playing hindsight he hasn't set the world alight since 2017)

Lukaku was a better fit than Morata but even then I doubt it would of catered much success compared to having Diego Costa. 

 

So the vast majority of his first choice targets would've prevented long term sustainability, were unrealistic, chose other clubs or would've held us back (Lukaku and Sandro in hindsight). We then ended up with Emerson, Rudiger, Drinkwater, Bakayoko, & Zappacosta. These were still Conte's targets, back up targets, but still his targets. This goes to show why its always best to wait for the right target, then to go for the wrong one. Which is my main point. 

 

 

[OneMoSalah 8,616]

39 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

When interviewed in 2018 he publicly stated he wanted both (Drinwkater and Bakayoko) because of the qualities they brought and that they were tailored to play his systems (352 or 343). This notion that he never wanted either of them is quite honestly ridiculous. 

Also, hindsight is 20/20. At the time Drinkwater was a solid player. No one knew he would completely give up on his footballing career for the drink. 

Conte wanted to keep Matic and then slowly integrate Bakayoko in, but when United come in and offer an absurd transfer amount for a declining player, we were obviously going to sell. 

The interview itself your taking a bit out of context, he never actually said he wanted Drinkwater and Bakayoko specifically in the interview. Just that they came in and gave more options being able to play 343 and 352.

I definitely think Drinkwater was like Barkley, someone who was more than likely signed by the club more than the manager. Bakayoko I am not so sure about as he burst onto the scene as part of that Monaco team and they were a team with many exciting talents.

This is the transcript:

“Compared to last season, we changed players. We bought two central midfielders, Bakayoko and Drinkwater. For the characteristics of our players, to play with three midfielders is a good option. For me to be able to alternate two different systems, 3-4-3 and 3-5-2, is great.

"When we play against a big team, it's very important to have more solidity with the three midfielders and two strikers, and to give more freedom to Eden,' adds Conte. "And I am very happy because I have seen my players show great ability at adapting themselves, and changing to a system by finding new solutions and memorised play. It was great for me to understand that this other option was good, and also fantastic that my players can do it."

Edited December 8, 2021 by OneMoSalah