Kai Havertz

[ChelseaFanUK 1,014]

2 hours ago, Supermonkey92 said:

I have a feeling he may be announced by Friday.



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On the contrary, I have a feeling media have jumped the gun on the deal..... Maybe thats just me putting 2 and 2 together with it going suddenly quiet

[Superblue 6,370]

6 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

I've posted several all touches videos in this thread. I've done so precisely to offer some contrary information to set against the hype. I like Havertz and hope we sign him but he's a human, not an 'extra-terrestrial'.

I said in an earlier comment that if we do get him, that, in itself, would be good evidence that he is not as good as we, and specifically me, might have believed. If he were, the bigger beasts would want him and we would have no chance. I see this as a benefit however, not a drawback. If he was good enough to be wanted and bought by more attractive clubs, what good would that do us? It's a Catch-22 situation. We really want him because we think he's a generational talent, but if he was really a generational talent we would never get him. 

We would be wise therefore not to over estimate Havertz, or to over value him in transfer negotiations. He does still have very desirable attributes mind you. Attributes which make it worth taking our chance to grab him: -

 - He sees passes which others don't and these are often devastating when they come off.

 - For someone so strongly one-footed, he has a wider passing arc than we should expect. His good body control allows him to make passes with his left foot that you would think are more likely to be made with the right foot. Teams will obviously target his one-footedness however.

 - He scores goals including with his head.

We're banking on Havertz to become world class in much the same way that Hazard did whilst at Chelsea.

He's not currently there yet, but I'd argue he's the best player in his position currently within his age category and the hope and expectation is that he'll realise that potential. If he does we'll have a serious player on our hands. 

I think it's too easy to think that if we sign him it suggests he's not as good as we believe because we've had a number of world class players at the club during the Abramovich era, but in the main they have developed to become world class whilst at Chelsea so there is nothing to say that Havertz wouldn't follow suit.

If they are at the top of their game and prime of their career then I'd tend to agree because beyond perhaps Makelele and Ballack there probably isn't really anyone else we've signed who would fit in that bracket and they were both 15 years ago. 

Remember with Hazard he wanted specifically to come and play in England as his next move. There are a number of factors that could be swaying Havertz thinking - Premier League, London, German teammates, promising young group of players, Lampard as manager, etc. He could well have in his mind a move to Real, Barca, Bayern in a few seasons time much like Hazard. If he does then I'm fine with that because he will have had to have produced with us to get that move and so we'll reap the benefits.

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

On the contrary, I have a feeling media have jumped the gun on the deal..... Maybe thats just me putting 2 and 2 together with it going suddenly quiet

Going by the Italian stallion all thats left is to agree a fee/payment plan with Bayer. I dont think this will take long now we know we are in CL.

I remember Pedro's agent saying how lightning fast Marina was in nabbing him from united. I think there was a board member from an Italian club that said how direct Marina was and negotiating was straight forward with no games about prices.

If negotiations started on Monday I'd be surprised if it took more than a week.

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[Pizy 18,331]

16 minutes ago, ChelseaFanUK said:

On the contrary, I have a feeling media have jumped the gun on the deal..... Maybe thats just me putting 2 and 2 together with it going suddenly quiet

Yeah, pretty weird how there was an explosion of news making it sound like it was only a matter of time and now not a single peep for 2 days. If personal terms have been agreed for weeks now I wonder what the big hold up is.

[ChelseaFanUK 1,014]

Probably just a celebration video, but seems a coincidence to me.  Something to do with 10 yrs at Bayer

 

 

[shrenshah 186]

50 minutes ago, ChelseaFanUK said:

Probably just a celebration video, but seems a coincidence to me.  Something to do with 10 yrs at Bayer

 

 

Or maybe a goodbye video

[Valdo 583]

1 minute ago, shrenshah said:

Or maybe a goodbye video

Looking at the comments, most people think it's a goodbye video. And it seems to be coming out on Saterday.

[ZAPHOD2319 4,416]

I think at this stage I think they are nailing down the bonuses and structure of payments. I doubt we are paying all at once.

[DDA 9,684]

I'm starting to have doubts about this transfer.... he looks overhyped. Somebody please convince me otherwise.

[Pizy 18,331]

12 minutes ago, DDA said:

I'm starting to have doubts about this transfer.... he looks overhyped. Somebody please convince me otherwise.

There's a reason he is sought after by literally every big club in Europe. If COVID never happened Real Madrid, Liverpool, United, everyone would be gunning hard for him.

He just turned  21 years old and is already one of the best players in Germany. 

[ZAPHOD2319 4,416]

I am stunned by the price of top players right now. I did watch Bundesliga after the restart and watched his games. Everyone thinks Sancho will be world class. Havertz showed he can score and move the ball to teammates from several starting positions on the pitch. He was really good in the air. He looked to be up there with Sancho. He was definitely the class on his team. I'm not sure what more people could ask for in a player? He has been a top player in a strong league for years starting at a young age. It is not like this is a break out year for him.

Personally, I never know how a player will step up to moving to a bigger club with more pressure, but this kid has the qualities to advance. I hope he does.

[Ryan Fong 2,776]

I'm starting to have doubts about this transfer.... he looks overhyped. Somebody please convince me otherwise.

A Leverkusen fan wrote the followings at Redcafe’s Havertz thread: (he replied someone said something like EPL has tighter space than Bundesliga blah blah blah)


“I disagree completely. The EPL used to have higher pace but that was primarily due to most English teams kept playing football that was tactically outdated. Bottom and mid table teams are still doing that while the top teams have finally made their homework and adjusted their playing styles to modern approaches (high pressing, counterpressing, fast transitions, controlled build up instead of rushed box to box action and longballs, etc.). The main reason for that is that foreign top coaches joined the league (Klopp, Guardiola, Sarri, Conte, Hasenhüttl, etc.) while some of the old guard finally left (Wenger).

Still, teams in the Bundesliga press much more ferociously than their English counterparts which means that there's significantly less space for midfielders. Fabregas exemplarily said that when Özil signed for Arsenal. And no, I'm not comparing him with de Bruyne, I explicitly said that he would be the best CAM in the EPL if it wasn't for the Belgian. But that's also because currently, there's not really an abundance of great attacking midfielders in England.

However, I think you underrate him because his playing style is rather subtle than spectacular - his type of player usually gets more love from Spanish/Italian fans than British ones. You need to watch closely to understand why he's so good. His movement, timing and problem solution in tight spaces is outstanding. I don't think there's another midfielder currently in world football who's so pressing resistant and confident in his passing while simultaneously posing such a goal threat. His finishing in the box is downright exceptional. He outperforms his xG by quite a margin which usually only few players with high goal output accomplish. All the while maintaining 85% passing accuracy although he played almost a third of his matches as a striker. De Bruyne exemplarily is at 81% passing accuracy and significantly underperforms in terms of xG, suggesting that Havertz chance conversion is already better than his.”

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

Probably just a celebration video, but seems a coincidence to me.  Something to do with 10 yrs at Bayer
 
 

Oi oii.

Looks like I was a day short.



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[Valdo 583]

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[Tomo 21,730]

38 minutes ago, Ryan Fong said:

A Leverkusen fan wrote the followings at Redcafe’s Havertz thread: (he replied someone said something like EPL has tighter space than Bundesliga blah blah blah)


“I disagree completely. The EPL used to have higher pace but that was primarily due to most English teams kept playing football that was tactically outdated. Bottom and mid table teams are still doing that while the top teams have finally made their homework and adjusted their playing styles to modern approaches (high pressing, counterpressing, fast transitions, controlled build up instead of rushed box to box action and longballs, etc.). The main reason for that is that foreign top coaches joined the league (Klopp, Guardiola, Sarri, Conte, Hasenhüttl, etc.) while some of the old guard finally left (Wenger).

Still, teams in the Bundesliga press much more ferociously than their English counterparts which means that there's significantly less space for midfielders. Fabregas exemplarily said that when Özil signed for Arsenal. And no, I'm not comparing him with de Bruyne, I explicitly said that he would be the best CAM in the EPL if it wasn't for the Belgian. But that's also because currently, there's not really an abundance of great attacking midfielders in England.

However, I think you underrate him because his playing style is rather subtle than spectacular - his type of player usually gets more love from Spanish/Italian fans than British ones. You need to watch closely to understand why he's so good. His movement, timing and problem solution in tight spaces is outstanding. I don't think there's another midfielder currently in world football who's so pressing resistant and confident in his passing while simultaneously posing such a goal threat. His finishing in the box is downright exceptional. He outperforms his xG by quite a margin which usually only few players with high goal output accomplish. All the while maintaining 85% passing accuracy although he played almost a third of his matches as a striker. De Bruyne exemplarily is at 81% passing accuracy and significantly underperforms in terms of xG, suggesting that Havertz chance conversion is already better than his.”

Oh god, so we're in for the usual "what does he do" nonsense by social media experts whenever he doesn't score or assist.

[kellzfresh 7,228]

36 minutes ago, Ryan Fong said:

A Leverkusen fan wrote the followings at Redcafe’s Havertz thread: (he replied someone said something like EPL has tighter space than Bundesliga blah blah blah)


“I disagree completely. The EPL used to have higher pace but that was primarily due to most English teams kept playing football that was tactically outdated. Bottom and mid table teams are still doing that while the top teams have finally made their homework and adjusted their playing styles to modern approaches (high pressing, counterpressing, fast transitions, controlled build up instead of rushed box to box action and longballs, etc.). The main reason for that is that foreign top coaches joined the league (Klopp, Guardiola, Sarri, Conte, Hasenhüttl, etc.) while some of the old guard finally left (Wenger).

Still, teams in the Bundesliga press much more ferociously than their English counterparts which means that there's significantly less space for midfielders. Fabregas exemplarily said that when Özil signed for Arsenal. And no, I'm not comparing him with de Bruyne, I explicitly said that he would be the best CAM in the EPL if it wasn't for the Belgian. But that's also because currently, there's not really an abundance of great attacking midfielders in England.

However, I think you underrate him because his playing style is rather subtle than spectacular - his type of player usually gets more love from Spanish/Italian fans than British ones. You need to watch closely to understand why he's so good. His movement, timing and problem solution in tight spaces is outstanding. I don't think there's another midfielder currently in world football who's so pressing resistant and confident in his passing while simultaneously posing such a goal threat. His finishing in the box is downright exceptional. He outperforms his xG by quite a margin which usually only few players with high goal output accomplish. All the while maintaining 85% passing accuracy although he played almost a third of his matches as a striker. De Bruyne exemplarily is at 81% passing accuracy and significantly underperforms in terms of xG, suggesting that Havertz chance conversion is already better than his.”

That sounds reassuring. I was wondering how press resistant he is because his height makes him look lanky sometimes. Hopefully if he is used to escaping pressing and counter press teams in the bundesliga, then he will translate  the experience into the EPL. His finishing is so good, and his vision for passing is very good too. But I still don't know how someone with his passing and vision didn't get more than 10 assists in 34-40 games this season.

[Artandur 939]

10 minutes ago, kellzfresh said:

That sounds reassuring. I was wondering how press resistant he is because his height makes him look lanky sometimes. Hopefully if he is used to escaping pressing and counter press teams in the bundesliga, then he will translate  the experience into the EPL. His finishing is so good, and his vision for passing is very good too. But I still don't know how someone with his passing and vision didn't get more than 10 assists in 34-40 games this season.

Himself being the only consistent goalscorer in the team for most of the season might have something to do with that last bit. 

[pHaRaOn 2,131]

These guys love Havertz and I know they watch the Bundesliga regularly.