Declan Rice

[Vesper 30,219]

3 minutes ago, BluesMadLad said:

?

went on a rant and self deleted it

I am raging

its all boiled to the top

[xPetrCechx 13,573]

@Vesper

Everything is ok? 

[NikkiCFC 8,334]

2 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

If we are going to move Jorginho on for Rice that is probably as close to undoing some of the good work of this window in terms of squad building we will get.

Personally I know many wont be thrilled to watch Rice passing it sideways 90% of the time and small teams just letting us have the ball because he isnt progressive enough to play through the lines. Also under pressure he isnt great so imagine him v a City or a Liverpool? Unlike Jorginho. Unlike Kovacic. Even unlike Kante. So if Frank goes to this heralded 433 like City played last season, which many believe with Rice holding, Havertz and Mount more offensive, does that mean those two will have to come a lot lot deeper to get the ball out of our own half into the more forward players? Unlike at City where De Bruyne and Silva where always positioned in half spaces because Rodri and Fernandinho could find them further up and find other players also?

 

2 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

What are Rice's stats in transition?

 

1 hour ago, Jason said:

You talked as if Jorginho doesn't pass sideways or backwards...

I posted this on Kova thread last month. Kova is best in the league in this with Jorgi and Kante also being very good.

But look where are Mount and Rice.

So if we play:

         Rice

Havertz  Mount

I think we would struggle to move the ball forward.

 

[Jase 43,479]

40 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

 

 

I posted this on Kova thread last month. Kova is best in the league in this with Jorgi and Kante also being very good.

But look where are Mount and Rice.

So if we play:

         Rice

Havertz  Mount

I think we would struggle to move the ball forward.

 

If only that tells the whole story...

NGL, I thought the midfield setup of Jorginho, Kovacic and Kante was decent last season, especially during the September-November period. But ultimately, the setup is flawed because of the players in that setup.

Jorginho is a limited passer and can't even be half of what Fabregas was for us. Kante is essentially defensive midfielder despite his best effort to make the attacking side of this work. Kovacic, for all his ability to dribble past players, break the lines etc, just does next to nothing with the ball when he gets to the final third and is arguably the most frustrating player of the three, IMO. Feel like he could do more with the ability, quality he has, be more decisive in the attacking third but he just disappoints.

Never mind the defensive side of things - which two of the above are not so good at, to put it kindly - if Jorginho and Kovacic are actually good in an attacking sense, we really wouldn't be having so much frustration and conversation over the midfield setup. 

[DANILA 290]

Please don't sign Rice.

[Jase 43,479]

2 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

I had seen Something on twitter from before the season ended. Maybe misread it. So he passes left 4.6 percent more than forward. And 2.3% more forward than right. Still. Stats aside. I cant imagine our build up play and getting into the opposition half will be better with Rice there holding than Jorginho if we go for Havertz and Mount as the advanced 8 like everyone seems to believe Frank wants to line up with. Rices tackles, interceptions, recoveries etc would be a boost maybe but again anything over 40-50m and weve been had because he doesn’t particularly offer anything particularly good with the ball and we will have the ball the majority of games, lets be honest. Kante when he’s on song - albeit he’s struggled and needs a back up - he does all that and more also. Rice would add height to the team. 

Ultimately, we are looking at two different type of players here. Ideally, I would want us to get someone who can at least do a decent job with both sides of the game - attacking in the passing ability sense and defending. With Jorginho, he is neither here nor there. He is such a limited passer and is atrocious when having to defend. But unfortunately, it is not easy to find a player that can do both sides of the game well. I don't know how Rice will fit in - it's hard to know what Lampard is trying to do exactly with all these players - but if he can help provide a defensive solidity in the team, then I'd probably settle for that right now. As for Kante, well, he is a defensive midfielder like Rice but they are different kind of defensive midfielders.

[DANILA 290]

I don't think Lampard knows what he wants to do in all honesty.

[Special Juan 28,141]

WHU have opened talks with maksimovic 

[YorkshireBlue 3,279]

2 hours ago, Vesper said:

went on a rant and self deleted it

I am raging

its all boiled to the top

What u raging about lol 

[Pizy 18,944]

The concern about Rice hampering our build-up play would be valid if that's what we were targeting him for. Which it wouldn't be. We wouldn't be asking him to be Fabregas or Luka Modric. We need him to be what prime Matic was for us. Someone with a no nonsense approach who can clean up any sloppiness, win 50-50 balls, make timely tackles, and cover for the defenders. And he's got more going for him than Matic did I think. Much more competent on the ball. 

We've got Kovacic who is excellent at carrying the ball from deeper and building attacks. Mount can build attacks. Havertz can do it. We don't need a deep lying playmaker, we need a hard bastard.

Look how Allan has transformed Everton instantly. That's what Rice would do for us.

[Vesper 30,219]

1 hour ago, BluesMadLad said:

What u raging about lol 

just some of the divvy shite I see posted here over and over that simply advocates for re-doing the same old tired broken solutions to many things

same players, same failed roles

same false claims, same tactics

it is like the old fake (as he did not say it) Einstein quote

'The definition of insanity is repeating the same things, the same mistakes, over, and over, yet expecting different results each time'

plus I have raging PMS

lolol

I am over it now (the mood, NOT the PMS, grrrr)

I just snapped (and some of it was to do with real life shit here, my BIL is a fucking BELLEND)

[Valdo 583]

just some of the divvy shite I see posted here over and over that simply advocates for re-doing the same old tired broken solutions to many things
same players, same failed roles
same false claims, same tactics
it is like the old fake (as he did not say it) Einstein quote
'The definition of insanity is repeating the same things, the same mistakes, over, and over, yet expecting different results each time'
plus I have raging PMS
lolol
I am over it now (the mood, NOT the PMS, grrrr)
I just snapped (and some of it was to do with real life shit here, my BIL is a fucking BELLEND)

Well you can always vent here [emoji108]Good to hear you're feeling partly better atleast.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn F5121 met Tapatalk

[Vesper 30,219]

21 minutes ago, Valdo said:

Well you can always vent here Good to hear you're feeling partly better atleast.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn F5121 met Tapatalk
 

no, I was out of bounds (not with my subjects, but with my delivery)

if some had replied in kind it would have went nuclear shitshow

like I said in the beginning of the self-deleted post, I had fucking snapped, I really had (I mean in real life too, as too much shit was going on at once, I was in the middle of viscous argument with my BIL and one of his fuckstick mates, who I would have hit in the face with a ale bottle if I had not left it upstairs, lolol, I ended up physically throwing both of them out of our townhouse (the little fucker (his friend) used our fucking flat for an attempted major drug exchange, grrrrrrrrrr), and his mate came back with a posse of other goons so they got the coppers called on them, which is only the second time in my life I have had to have police involvement) My BIL is a little (not in size, he is a giant, lolol) posh cunt trying to cosplay gangsta gangsta. He is banned from here now permanently, it has been coming to this for months, if not years.

[Vesper 30,219]

4 hours ago, xPetrCechx said:

@Vesper

Everything is ok? 

yes, see my other posts, its all good now

had some drama in RL that I foolishly tried to make a post on here in the middle of, when I was seeing raw raw red.

[Superblue 6,372]

7 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

If we are going to move Jorginho on for Rice that is probably as close to undoing some of the good work of this window in terms of squad building we will get.

Personally I know many wont be thrilled to watch Rice passing it sideways 90% of the time and small teams just letting us have the ball because he isnt progressive enough to play through the lines. Also under pressure he isnt great so imagine him v a City or a Liverpool? Unlike Jorginho. Unlike Kovacic. Even unlike Kante. So if Frank goes to this heralded 433 like City played last season, which many believe with Rice holding, Havertz and Mount more offensive, does that mean those two will have to come a lot lot deeper to get the ball out of our own half into the more forward players? Unlike at City where De Bruyne and Silva where always positioned in half spaces because Rodri and Fernandinho could find them further up and find other players also?

It is definitely part of Rice's game that needs work on but he will ultimately be being brought for his defensive prowess. 

If Kante struggles for fitness like last season, we literally don't have one alternative midfielder with an ounce of defensive awareness and solidity.

Going back to your point however in the second half against West Brom, Kante played in the holding role and I wouldn't view him as the most progressive of players on the ball either. However on a number of occasions in that game (particularly in the second half) Thiago Silva bypassed Kante and was finding Havertz and Mount in space with quite a bit of regularity. And they weren't needing to drop extremely deep to receive either. His mistake aside, I think his comfort on the ball and playing out from the back would potentially help with that 'problem' if Kante or Rice were to play that role.

[Vesper 30,219]

3 hours ago, Special Juan said:

WHU have opened talks with maksimovic 

Nemanja I assume? surely not Nikola (who Conte wanted)

 

[Unionjack 7,531]

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

no, I was out of bounds (not with my subjects, but with my delivery)

if some had replied in kind it would have went nuclear shitshow

like I said in the beginning of the self-deleted post, I had fucking snapped, I really had (I mean in real life too, as too much shit was going on at once, I was in the middle of viscous argument with my BIL and one of his fuckstick mates, who I would have hit in the face with a ale bottle if I had not left it upstairs, lolol, I ended up physically throwing both of them out of our townhouse (the little fucker (his friend) used our fucking flat for an attempted major drug exchange, grrrrrrrrrr), and his mate came back with a posse of other goons so they got the coppers called on them, which is only the second time in my life I have had to have police involvement) My BIL is a little (not in size, he is a giant, lolol) posh cunt trying to cosplay gangsta gangsta. He is banned from here now permanently, it has been coming to this for months, if not years.

Ive learned to never shit on your own doorstep!

I only properly watched 2 games last season. Everton and Dippers. And I dont understand how we have gone from playing so smooth and so attacking to how we are now.

The only real difference player wise (as our new lads are upgrades) is Billy G.

He worked well with Barkley,Kova and Jorgi

But then it all changed again and went tits up.

 

[Vesper 30,219]

1 minute ago, Unionjack said:

Ive learned to never shit on your own doorstep!

I only properly watched 2 games last season. Everton and Dippers. And I dont understand how we have gone from playing so smooth and so attacking to how we are now.

The only real difference player wise (as our new lads are upgrades) is Billy G.

He worked well with Barkley,Kova and Jorgi

But then it all changed again and went tits up.

 

It really started to go pear shaped when Lamps rammed Kante back into the line-up at RMF in a 3 man MF, plus when Rudiger came back from his abdominal injury (he was has been dogshit ever since, overall)

[Unionjack 7,531]

2 minutes ago, Vesper said:

It really started to go pear shaped when Lamps rammed Kante back into the line-up at RMF in a 3 man MF, plus when Rudiger came back from his abdominal injury (he was has been dogshit ever since, overall)

Yet he continued to play Rudi even in a 3 man back where even I know he doesnt fit there.

It worries me how FL does seem to make these same mistakes even after continually saying WE must learn from them. 

Im all for giving him time as long as theres improvements.

[ChelseaFanUK 1,014]

This is not happening i reckon.  Too late and West Ham will want 50-60m.  Rice wont push it either