Timo Werner

[Jase 43,479]

10 goals

9 assists (12 if you want to include penalties)

For someone who hasn't been great this season - in his debut season no less - that is a decent G/A contribution. That's also at least 3 more than anyone else in the team.

If he can sort himself out and regain his mojo, one would expect those numbers to be better next season.

[OneMoSalah 8,784]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

10 goals

9 assists (12 if you want to include penalties)

For someone who hasn't been great this season - in his debut season no less - that is a decent G/A contribution. That's also at least 3 more than anyone else in the team.

If he can sort himself out and regain his mojo, one would expect those numbers to be better next season.

The problems been only 6 of those goal involvements in the second half of the season have come in about 1250 minutes. In which only 2 were actual goals. 

Yes 19 goal involvements for the season is decent but it only tells half the story and is extremely misleading from what a lot of the games this season actually reflect.

One positive though cannot get any worse next season, surely? And recruiting another CF be it an Aguero or Haaland or whoever, will hopefully add more goals to the team. And even then if its similar next season if we get another CF/regular source of goals it wont be too bad.

[Jase 43,479]

37 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

The problems been only 6 of those goal involvements in the second half of the season have come in about 1250 minutes. In which only 2 were actual goals. 

Yes 19 goal involvements for the season is decent but it only tells half the story and is extremely misleading from what a lot of the games this season actually reflect.

True but the problem is, no one else in the team has been consistent throughout the season either. 

Mount, who has played comparable minutes to Werner, has been more consistent in terms of performances but his numbers are lower than Werner. Okay, you could argue that one is a striker and the other isn't but the striker is producing more assists (and all from open play) than the attacking midfielder.

We can argue all day about the other problems with Werner (don't want to do it again!) but as I said earlier, given it's his first season here and the problems he's had/having, that return is not bad. If he's producing such numbers in a bad season, then imagine what he can produce if he can find himself again and have a good season.

37 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

One positive though cannot get any worse next season, surely? And recruiting another CF be it an Aguero or Haaland or whoever, will hopefully add more goals to the team. And even then if its similar next season if we get another CF/regular source of goals it wont be too bad.

So, you're basically saying that people are just piling on him because they see as the main source for goals in the team? 

[OneMoSalah 8,784]

43 minutes ago, Jason said:

True but the problem is, no one else in the team has been consistent throughout the season either. 

Mount, who has played comparable minutes to Werner, has been more consistent in terms of performances but his numbers are lower than Werner. Okay, you could argue that one is a striker and the other isn't but the striker is producing more assists (and all from open play) than the attacking midfielder.

We can argue all day about the other problems with Werner (don't want to do it again!) but as I said earlier, given it's his first season here and the problems he's had/having, that return is not bad. If he's producing such numbers in a bad season, then imagine what he can produce if he can find himself again and have a good season.

So, you're basically saying that people are just piling on him because they see as the main source for goals in the team? 

Not necessarily, he is definitely worth of a lot of criticisms he has had as he is a striker and his role is to score goals ultimately although they obviously have to do more than that these days. Ok he maybe isn’t a pure number 9 so to speak but if we had one who was scoring goals regularly then maybe we could accept him not being as prolific.

He was bought with the expectations of being a regular goalscorer though and that will always go against him whoever makes a judgement on his performances in his time here. Obviously we still want more from him as he has probably been the guy most have thought would be our most consistent and regular sources of goals when we signed him. He probably anticipated being that himself as did Frank and TT when he came in also especially based off what he achieved at Leipzig. 

Its not unfair for anyone to turn around and say his lack of goals and particularly the big chances missed have affected our season. They would have gotten us extra points at some stage which would maybe have us a bit better than we are at present and its been a reoccurring theme with other CFs also.  It was the exact same issue last season with many players (Abraham I think got this a bit also like Morata before him) also as we missed a lot of the big chances we created and that nearly came back to bite us. 

[Jase 43,479]

12 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Not necessarily, he is definitely worth of a lot of criticisms he has had as he is a striker and his role is to score goals ultimately although they obviously have to do more than that these days. Ok he maybe isn’t a pure number 9 so to speak but if we had one who was scoring goals regularly then maybe we could accept him not being as prolific.

Said this before, the more things progress, the more it looks like Werner will be like Pedro for us. Someone who is not the main scorer but the secondary scorer, someone who would get 10-15 goals per season. 

14 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Its not unfair for anyone to turn around and say his lack of goals and particularly the big chances missed have affected our season. They would have gotten us extra points at some stage which would maybe have us a bit better than we are at present and its been a reoccurring theme with other CFs also.  It was the exact same issue last season with many players (Abraham I think got this a bit also like Morata before him) also as we missed a lot of the big chances we created and that nearly came back to bite us. 

Off the top of my head, I don't think Werner's misses have come in games that we lost? Think they have come in games that we won?

But of course, having someone decisive in the final third might have turned some of those losses to wins. 

[NikkiCFC 8,048]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Said this before, the more things progress, the more it looks like Werner will be like Pedro for us. Someone who is not the main scorer but the secondary scorer, someone who would get 10-15 goals per season. 

Off the top of my head, I don't think Werner's misses have come in games that we lost? Think they have come in games that we won?

I liked Pedro but Pedro is Pedro. He gave us what we expected from him. 

Werner came with pedigree of one of the best goalscorers in Europe. I want to compere him with Lewandowski, Immobile, Haaland, Mbappe in terms of goals. Not with Pedro or Mount or Ziyech or Willian. This is the standard he set for himself in Leipzig. 

In doesn't matter in which games his misses came. We played 31 PL games and 10 CL games. This is 41 games in two major competitions. Werner scored in just 4 games of these games not counting penalties. 

[Jase 43,479]

6 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

I liked Pedro but Pedro is Pedro. He gave us what we expected from him. 

Werner came with pedigree of one of the best goalscorers in Europe. I want to compere him with Lewandowski, Immobile, Haaland, Mbappe in terms of goals. Not with Pedro or Mount or Ziyech or Willian. This is the standard he set for himself in Leipzig. 

Yeah but the Bundesliga is the Bundesliga and the Premier League is the Premier League. Of course we would like to see Werner translate those numbers in Germany to here in England but it's not always that straightforward, especially when we all have had discussions about him not being a natural goalscorer.

I compared Werner with someone like Pedro because (a) he's not an out-an-out #9 and (b) the position that he normally operates in is more similar to someone like Pedro. He's more of a wide forward like the Sons, Manes, Salahs of this world, albeit one of course that still gets chances to score. Most of the players you mentioned are natural #9s and they tend to get more chances to score every game and are more clinical.

6 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

In doesn't matter in which games his misses came. We played 31 PL games and 10 CL games. This is 41 games in two major competitions. Werner scored in just 4 games of these games not counting penalties. 

We were talking about his missed chances. You went in a different direction...

And TBH, not really surprised by that considering he was something of a streaky player in the Bundesliga.

[Azul 1,615]

People who were slating me for wanting Pulisic to start over this clown, what do you have to say now? There's no more defending Timo, he might've cost us a CL Final.

[Fernando 6,484]

We should really cut our losses and sell him this summer so we can raise some money and buy mbappe or halland. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,318]

5 minutes ago, Azul said:

People who were slating me for wanting Pulisic to start over this clown, what do you have to say now? 

He isn't starting over Pulisic. 

[Magic Lamps 11,668]

That miss was unforgivable. There are plenty of Pacey players who can’t score. We could play Adama traore there and he would probably produce better numbers.for me this was the straw that broke the camels back. If we get a decent offer for him we should indeed cut our losses. 

[Azul 1,615]

2 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

He isn't starting over Pulisic. 

Is that your opinion on what should happen or what you think Tuchel will do?

[MoroccanBlue 5,318]

Just now, Azul said:

Is that your opinion on what should happen or what you think Tuchel will do?

It was a bit of cheek considering they both started. But I'm contempt with Werner being a squad player at best. Utilised based on the opposition. As far as a starter, that ship has sailed for me. 

[Vegetable 830]

He isn't going anywhere as there's hardly anyone willing to but, except maybe traditional trolls Bayern, with -50% pricetag.

I feel someone in the club was pressured to but Werner and Havertz as they were hottest prospects out there and missing out on them would be like missing on Mbappe, just like Konate+Upamecano duo was considered a while ago. But suddenly securing prospects turned into integrating them into first team as top-players and we are where we are.

I'm hoping the fortune will turn around for them soon, but no signs of it now. 

[Laylabelle 9,381]

Maybe he'll do a Torres next week. Just so frustrating..and must be so crap for him as well just to miss the moments he really shouldn't miss!

[OneMoSalah 8,784]

At the end of the day, Tuchel has to watch because if he continues to count on him and he keeps missing or scoring once every 15 games, ultimately it will be the managers head on the block if it leads to a down spiral in results/games not being won.

Not at that point yet but more big chances missed that would have swung this tie from just over 50% with the away goal to 75-80% in our favour IMO. 

[robsblubot 3,529]

On 17/04/2021 at 16:28, Jason said:

Said this before, the more things progress, the more it looks like Werner will be like Pedro for us. Someone who is not the main scorer but the secondary scorer, someone who would get 10-15 goals per season. 

Off the top of my head, I don't think Werner's misses have come in games that we lost? Think they have come in games that we won?

But of course, having someone decisive in the final third might have turned some of those losses to wins. 

It's not that simple (responding to OneMoSalah's point actually): Werner's movement opens up spaces and creates opportunities for him and his teammates. I'm going to say something a bit controversial here, but I'd not replace Werner with Aubameyang, for example. Aubameyang can finish, but he just takes too much from the team - I really dislike him as a footballer.

Werner needs to improve his finish, but he is still young and even a slight improvement will make him an even more dangerous attacker, again because of his pace and movement.

[NikkiCFC 8,048]

Before this game Werner had 1 goal and one assist in the last 3 games. Did not even started against Brighton in midweek. So his selection was definitely understandable. And this is the only two goals we scored in the last 3 games so...

Edited April 27, 2021 by NikkiCFC