Timo Werner

[robsblubot 3,502]

1 minute ago, Azul said:

No one's hating on Timo mate, I'm just saying that he needs to rest. His performances have not been up to par, and we need a win against Spurs. CHO and Pulisic are safer options for now, but Timo is a starter in this team ofcourse.

Saying he needs a rest and hating are two very different things.

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Playing on the wing is also more demanding. I also think it's unfair to expect striker-like effectiveness when he plays winger.

He gets a lot more involved in other tasks as a winger (even inside striker), so naturally the focus isn't the same as if he were playing striker. Think that's clear when you watch him play for Germany.

The fact he's been playing in the wing may hurt us when things get tighter and we need an extra class up front - Abraham ain't it. Werner should be playing more in the center with Odoi coming on to the left... dunno why that's not being done at all.

[Jase 43,479]

5 minutes ago, Azul said:

No one's hating on Timo mate, I'm just saying that he needs to rest. His performances have not been up to par, and we need a win against Spurs. CHO and Pulisic are safer options for now, but Timo is a starter in this team ofcourse.

Saying he needs a rest and hating are two very different things.

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Don't disagree that Werner needs a rest but if Lampard didn't rest him against Rennes, what makes you think he will do that against Spurs?

Also, how exactly are CHO and Pulisic safer options right now? For one reason or another, Lampard has barely played CHO much at all and with Pulisic, it's worth remembering that he played a few games before his last injury and he didn't quite manage to rediscover his last season form. Unlikely he'll do so all of a sudden immediately coming off from a setback and given his hamstring problem has been problematic, I highly doubt Lampard will just throw him straight into the starting XI in a big game. Didn't even do it last time against Palace. Came on as a sub then.

[Azul 1,615]

Don't disagree that Werner needs a rest but if Lampard didn't rest him against Rennes, what makes you think he will do that against Spurs?

Also, how exactly are CHO and Pulisic safer options right now? For one reason or another, Lampard has barely played CHO much at all and with Pulisic, it's worth remembering that he played a few games before his last injury and he didn't quite manage to rediscover his last season form. Unlikely he'll do so all of a sudden immediately coming off from a setback and given his hamstring problem has been problematic, I highly doubt Lampard will just throw him straight into the starting XI in a big game. Didn't even do it last time against Palace. Came on as a sub then.

I'm not talking about what Lampard will do, but what I hope will happen. I think Lampard will start Werner but I think it's better to give him a rest, because he can easily flop in that game since his confidence is at an all time low right now.

 

CHO has looked amazing in the international break, and looked very good today as well. We also know how good Pulisic is, even if he just came back from injuries. He is the type of player that still performs after a long lay-off, we've seen it last season.

 

Werner's missed chances are abnormal, he looks completely lost at the moment. That's why I think it's a bit too much to start him against Spurs. He might flop, or he might look world class. We don't know which Timo we'll get, and that's what scares me at the moment.

 

 

 

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Azul said:

I'm not talking about what Lampard will do, but what I hope will happen. I think Lampard will start Werner but I think it's better to give him a rest, because he can easily flop in that game since his confidence is at an all time low right now.

CHO has looked amazing in the international break, and looked very good today as well. We also know how good Pulisic is, even if he just came back from injuries. He is the type of player that still performs after a long lay-off, we've seen it last season.

Werner's missed chances are abnormal, he looks completely lost at the moment. That's why I think it's a bit too much to start him against Spurs. He might flop, or he might look world class. We don't know which Timo we'll get, and that's what scares me at the moment.

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You're being very paranoid. 

[Jase 43,479]

17 minutes ago, Azul said:

I'm not talking about what Lampard will do, but what I hope will happen. I think Lampard will start Werner but I think it's better to give him a rest, because he can easily flop in that game since his confidence is at an all time low right now.

CHO has looked amazing in the international break, and looked very good today as well. We also know how good Pulisic is, even if he just came back from injuries. He is the type of player that still performs after a long lay-off, we've seen it last season.

Werner's missed chances are abnormal, he looks completely lost at the moment. That's why I think it's a bit too much to start him against Spurs. He might flop, or he might look world class. We don't know which Timo we'll get, and that's what scares me at the moment.

Also, not sure how missing chances equate to being low on confidence, especially when it's been only 2 games. Do you know Werner personally to know that? Yes, it's frustrating to see Werner fluffed his lines in the last two games but at the same time and for example, he also went and created that second goal at Newcastle on the counter attack with the searing pace of his. Strikers, players etc miss chances. It happens and happens to even the best. As long as Werner continues to score more than he misses, I don't see why there should be a concern and I think his career numbers so far back that up. Would be more concerned if he wasn't getting at the end of chances or if he was shirking away after missing a chance. Rather than let it affect him, he usually just dusts himself off and go again, try to get at the of chances and score.

[OneMoSalah 8,776]

10 minutes ago, Azul said:

I'm not talking about what Lampard will do, but what I hope will happen. I think Lampard will start Werner but I think it's better to give him a rest, because he can easily flop in that game since his confidence is at an all time low right now.

 

CHO has looked amazing in the international break, and looked very good today as well. We also know how good Pulisic is, even if he just came back from injuries. He is the type of player that still performs after a long lay-off, we've seen it last season.

 

Werner's missed chances are abnormal, he looks completely lost at the moment. That's why I think it's a bit too much to start him against Spurs. He might flop, or he might look world class. We don't know which Timo we'll get, and that's what scares me at the moment.

What? His confidence is clearly not at an all time low. If it was he wouldn't be making the same runs he's making or be shooting full stop.

When strikers aren’t confident they stop getting onto the end of chances or stop shooting because they are scared of missing. Timo doesn’t look like that. He is allowed to have an off game or two.

This notion you have that he is lost is crazy, he has either scored or assisted in 6 of his last 8 games for club and country. Something like 11 goal involvements in his last 8 games.

Is that someone who is not confident? Or someone who is lost? To sound blunt - if that is lost or low confidence I would like some of whatever your drinking or smoking, I mean what do you want him to do score 3 goals every game and be MOTM every game of the season? He has 13 goals in 22 games this season for club and country. All in all that is good.

[Azul 1,615]

What? His confidence is clearly not at an all time low. If it was he wouldn't be making the same runs he's making or be shooting full stop.
When strikers aren’t confident they stop getting onto the end of chances or stop shooting because they are scared of missing. Timo doesn’t look like that. He is allowed to have an off game or two.
This notion you have that he is lost is crazy, he has either scored or assisted in 6 of his last 8 games for club and country. Something like 11 goal involvements in his last 8 games.
Is that someone who is not confident? Or someone who is lost? To sound blunt - if that is lost or low confidence I would like some of whatever your drinking or smoking, I mean what do you want him to do score 3 goals every game and be MOTM every game of the season? He has 13 goals in 22 games this season for club and country. All in all that is good.

The chances he is getting are not hard chances but the easiest chances to score. I don't know what happened to him, but he is not performing the same as he did before the international break. Maybe the 6-0 loss against Spain affected him.

Why are you talking about his whole season? Is it that hard to read my post? He's been underperforming in the last few games. I'm not talking about his season as a whole, he's been brilliant for us.

And are we watching the same games by the way? Mate, he clearly is underperforming compared to when he played before the international break. I'm not saying to bench him permanently but to just rest him for Spurs since it's the most important game of the seaos so far.

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[NikkiCFC 7,942]

Funny thing is that if you take away Southampton game all Werner goals and assists would not mean that much because we would still win all these games. He scored a lot of penalties and goals when it was game over.

We need him to perform at highest level when it is needed!

Not hating or anything I think he will come great for us. But Giroud should play more and even start games because he is the reason we play CL. His goals in February-July gave us so many points.

[Azul 1,615]

Also, not sure how missing chances equate to being low on confidence, especially when it's been only 2 games. Do you know Werner personally to know that? Yes, it's frustrating to see Werner fluffed his lines in the last two games but at the same time and for example, he also went and created that second goal at Newcastle on the counter attack with the searing pace of his. Strikers, players etc miss chances. It happens and happens to even the best. As long as Werner continues to score more than he misses, I don't see why there should be a concern and I think his career numbers so far back that up. Would be more concerned if he wasn't getting at the end of chances or if he was shirking away after missing a chance. Rather than let it affect him, he usually just dusts himself off and go again, try to get at the of chances and score.

Do you think I hate Werner or something? I want him to be our main starter, but I'm being real for now. The chances he's missing is unacceptable to be honest, and yes it scares me that he's capable of that at this very moment. I just want him to be rested for the Spurs game that's it, that game is a season defining game in my eyes. If we beat Spurs then their confidence will be very low and it gives them a blow to their title hopes for sure.

 

Imagine if Werner also has a stinker against Spurs? He won't be getting as many chances in that game, because Spurs is a more solid team than all of the teams we've won against in the last 5-6 games. We need someone reliable who is able to put the ball in the net at any moment in the game. That's why I hope that Pulisic will be fit, because he'll be a better LW.

 

If any neutral looked at Werner in the last 2 performances then they can clearly tell that he is not that confident in front of goal. He is missing the easiest chances! Even when he played against Sheffield he needed 2 or 3 chances to score. A striker who's playing against a team like Spurs should only need 1 chance to score against them. Jose made them a defensively solid team. Werner missing chances would not be the same against them, it could cost us the game literally whereas with teams like Rennes, Sheffield and Newcastle it's different. Their lower level teams so you'll always get chances to score against them.

 

 

 

 

[Stats 7,053]

40 minutes ago, Azul said:

I'm not talking about what Lampard will do, but what I hope will happen. I think Lampard will start Werner but I think it's better to give him a rest, because he can easily flop in that game since his confidence is at an all time low right now.

 

CHO has looked amazing in the international break, and looked very good today as well. We also know how good Pulisic is, even if he just came back from injuries. He is the type of player that still performs after a long lay-off, we've seen it last season.

 

Werner's missed chances are abnormal, he looks completely lost at the moment. That's why I think it's a bit too much to start him against Spurs. He might flop, or he might look world class. We don't know which Timo we'll get, and that's what scares me at the moment.

 

 

 

Huge overreaction. if his confidence was at an all time low, he would not have done that run that started from his own half that assisted Abraham  against Newcastle. He is not low on confidence. He has made some poor decisions in final third but he is still contributing. This will be put to bed next time he scores.

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, Azul said:

Do you think I hate Werner or something? I want him to be our main starter, but I'm being real for now. The chances he's missing is unacceptable to be honest, and yes it scares me that he's capable of that at this very moment. I just want him to be rested for the Spurs game that's it, that game is a season defining game in my eyes. If we beat Spurs then their confidence will be very low and it gives them a blow to their title hopes for sure.

Imagine if Werner also has a stinker against Spurs? He won't be getting as many chances in that game, because Spurs is a more solid team than all of the teams we've won against in the last 5-6 games. We need someone reliable who is able to put the ball in the net at any moment in the game. That's why I hope that Pulisic will be fit, because he'll be a better LW.

If any neutral looked at Werner in the last 2 performances then they can clearly tell that he is not that confident in front of goal. He is missing the easiest chances! Even when he played against Sheffield he needed 2 or 3 chances to score. A striker who's playing against a team like Spurs should only need 1 chance to score against them. Jose made them a defensively solid team. Werner missing chances would not be the same against them, it could cost us the game literally whereas with teams like Rennes, Sheffield and Newcastle it's different. Their lower level teams so you'll always get chances to score against them.

Like I said, you're being overly paranoid. 

[OneMoSalah 8,776]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

Like I said, you're being overly paranoid. 

Or overly critical. To be expected on here though Mount got it, Pulisic got some shit cause he was injured, now Werner getting it after 2 meh games. Some people will never be happy. 

[Azul 1,615]

Some people are emotional crybabies on here. I just said that he needs to be rested for Spurs and all hell breaks loose. Unbelievable stuff.

[Jase 43,479]

5 minutes ago, Azul said:

Some people are emotional crybabies on here. I just said that he needs to be rested for Spurs and all hell breaks loose. Unbelievable stuff.

No, you didn't. You said he needs a rest and then went on talking about him missing chances, being low on confidence etc. 

If you had just said he needs a rest on Sunday, no one would have really replied to your posts.

[Azul 1,615]

Just now, Jason said:

No, you didn't. You said he needs a rest and then went on talking about him missing chances, being low on confidence etc. 

It is a fact that he is missing clear and easy chances though. Why do I think that's the case? Because he's low on confidence after Spain spanked Germany 6-0. Do I have tangible evidence for that? No it's just a theory, you can believe it or not.

At the end of the day it, my point still stands I believe needs a rest. If you don't then fine you have your own opinions innit. But don't start saying that I'm panicking or hating on Werner when that's clearly not the case. 

[Rekin 835]

Of all the players we bought this season, Werner concerns me the most. 

On one hand he works his ass off, is good at finding space and has shown that he has that magic quality where he can conjure something out of nothing (usually due to his insane speed)

At the same time, it is becoming more and more clear that he lacks many qualities that we need. His passing, ability to retain the ball, first touch and even finishing can be atrocious at times. He has missed several amazing opportunities already, and low blocks in particular cancel him out.
I am wondering more and more whether he is better suited as a "Kalou" type of player for us (super sub that can also start less important games) rather than our leading man for future years. His problems are not coming from adapting to the league (such as it might be for Kai), but rather from his abilities.

I realize this isnt a very original take, but imagine having someone like Haaland in those spots instead. 

[robsblubot 3,502]

Haaland isn't available.

Werner skill does not concern me at all. He may lack skill and passing for a winger, the same way that if you'd give Silva the number 10 his passing would look like shit. Wenger is twice the striker Abraham is and should always play ahead of him.

I am, however, concerned with Wenger becoming a de facto winger at chelsea (if not by trade, by accident) and that may make things harder for him, eventually affecting his confidence.  

[Jase 43,479]

3 hours ago, Rekin said:

Of all the players we bought this season, Werner concerns me the most. 

On one hand he works his ass off, is good at finding space and has shown that he has that magic quality where he can conjure something out of nothing (usually due to his insane speed)

At the same time, it is becoming more and more clear that he lacks many qualities that we need. His passing, ability to retain the ball, first touch and even finishing can be atrocious at times. He has missed several amazing opportunities already, and low blocks in particular cancel him out.
I am wondering more and more whether he is better suited as a "Kalou" type of player for us (super sub that can also start less important games) rather than our leading man for future years. His problems are not coming from adapting to the league (such as it might be for Kai), but rather from his abilities.

I realize this isnt a very original take, but imagine having someone like Haaland in those spots instead. 

With the way people have been going about Werner missing chances, you would think this isn't someone who has scored 132 goals and even provided about 60 assists in his career. Heck, he already has 14 goals and 4 assists for club and country this season!

If Werner's passing, ability to retain the ball, first touch, finishing were so bad, he would not have been wanted by Hansi Flick, Klopp and even Guardiola and he wouldn't even be a fully fledged German international. 

On paper, yeah, Werner doesn't look suitable against low blocks but people haven't really been watching him over the past year or so, if they believe that's the case. He improved that part of his game under Nagelsmann and is getting better on it. He didn't score 34 goals for Leipzig in all competitions by accident last season and not everyone played a high line against them either. 

Think we can all agree that Werner needs a rest but the overreaction to his form because of the misses in the last 2 games has been .