🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Mason Mount

[Reddish-Blue 2,505]

34 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

I like him as a player and think he's excellent in the role he plays (one of the most important roles in football). Point me a successful team and I will point to a player who performs the same role. He's a good player who at the moment is not even average... with his current level of play he should not be playing at all. His ONE defining characteristic is nowhere to be seen.

Sort out the contract situation or leave the team and move elsewhere (contrary to many here I think he would play in any top 4 PL team with ease), but right now he's clearly not contributing. Manager and team could be a contributing factor, but I suspect it's more of the former.

He's not starting for any of the top 4 PL sides.  De Bruyne, Odegaard, Bruno....and we have Mount....look at the drop off in quality. 

Mount's problem isn't the contract, it is the fact that he is not elite at anything in particular.  Every other elite midfielder has something about them, whether its the ability to play the killer pass, the ability to score from anywhere around the box, set piece specialists, ability to dribble past your man and get into open space...Mount doesn't tick any of those boxes. 

[Mário César 1,263]

loook at rival reaction when they knew that their club is interested in mount

look at redcafe

they laugh and hopes that united don't sign him 

the same with liverpool fans

nobody rate mount so high than Chelsea fans

good player but not good enough

good players are lampard, ballack, prime kanté, gerrard, scholes, kdb... even bruno fernandes is a better player

mount is nowwhere that level 

[robsblubot 3,595]

1 hour ago, Reddish-Blue said:

He's not starting for any of the top 4 PL sides.  De Bruyne, Odegaard, Bruno....and we have Mount....look at the drop off in quality. 

Mount's problem isn't the contract, it is the fact that he is not elite at anything in particular.  Every other elite midfielder has something about them, whether its the ability to play the killer pass, the ability to score from anywhere around the box, set piece specialists, ability to dribble past your man and get into open space...Mount doesn't tick any of those boxes. 

different roles... you all want him to be a creative type which is obviously not what he is. Had he played against us, instead of for us, at the CL final and I think City would have had a much better chance of winning it. That's how I see him. He's that 3rd CM who is sometimes employed on the wings (in the popular 4231 and its variations) to close down a channel and provide balance. He even produces creative moments like in the aforementioned finals... it's rare for a player in that role to produce goals and assists because they do so much else already. Oscar was that player for us. Willian then tried to be that player. The player in that role is never liked, but he's absolutely needed for silverware. I see that player in every team which wins. City often lacks that player and it costs them. PSG does not have that player and it costs them. There are perhaps 100 players who could slot in for Grealish without changing much, and another 100 who would improve City... Mount included.

See it the way I see it, or not, his defining characteristic is work rate, which makes him excellent in high press systems; his work rate has been entirely absent for quite a while. I'm not claiming Mount is the only player who can do this role, but I am sure claiming that if we employ 2 creative wingers and a striker, we will lose more than win regardless of midfield setup.

Edited February 19, 2023 by robsblubot

[Reddish-Blue 2,505]

2 hours ago, robsblubot said:

different roles... you all want him to be a creative type which is obviously not what he is. Had he played against us, instead of for us, at the CL final and I think City would have had a much better chance of winning it. That's how I see him. He's that 3rd CM who is sometimes employed on the wings (in the popular 4231 and its variations) to close down a channel and provide balance. He even produces creative moments like in the aforementioned finals... it's rare for a player in that role to produce goals and assists because they do so much else already. Oscar was that player for us. Willian then tried to be that player. The player in that role is never liked, but he's absolutely needed for silverware. I see that player in every team which wins. City often lacks that player and it costs them. PSG does not have that player and it costs them. There are perhaps 100 players who could slot in for Grealish without changing much, and another 100 who would improve City... Mount included.

See it the way I see it, or not, his defining characteristic is work rate, which makes him excellent in high press systems; his work rate has been entirely absent for quite a while. I'm not claiming Mount is the only player who can do this role, but I am sure claiming that if we employ 2 creative wingers and a striker, we will lose more than win regardless of midfield setup.

The difference between Willian and Mount is that Willian had the consistency in that role, he even played as a RB at times when Ivanovic would bomb forward like a headless chicken on the wing.   Consistent work rate is the reason why Willian is still putting in a shift for Fulham in the Premier League..at the age of 34. 

Bringing up examples of what Mount could be for the opposition in a CL final is sort of pointless as there is every chance he doesn't even make it off the bench for City. 

I think the problem for alot of fans is that they just can't accept that Mount is not elite.   He is a homegrown squad player and thats how he should be looked at....same case for Gallagher (a young homegrown squad player).  Put it this way, if the club does end up giving him the reported 300k wages, then the club have accepted that we will be at best, a top 4 side for the foreseeable future. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

45 minutes ago, Reddish-Blue said:

The difference between Willian and Mount is that Willian had the consistency in that role, he even played as a RB at times when Ivanovic would bomb forward like a headless chicken on the wing.   Consistent work rate is the reason why Willian is still putting in a shift for Fulham in the Premier League..at the age of 34. 

Bringing up examples of what Mount could be for the opposition in a CL final is sort of pointless as there is every chance he doesn't even make it off the bench for City. 

I think the problem for alot of fans is that they just can't accept that Mount is not elite.   He is a homegrown squad player and thats how he should be looked at....same case for Gallagher (a young homegrown squad player).  Put it this way, if the club does end up giving him the reported 300k wages, then the club have accepted that we will be at best, a top 4 side for the foreseeable future. 

Yeah agree to disagree. I don't have any agenda or a desire to like Mount. I see what I see and think he's underrated here. BTW, don't Willian was that consistent -- became more consistent towards his 30s which is quite common for footballers. 

[Blue Armour 4,439]

On 18/02/2023 at 14:58, robsblubot said:

but right now he's clearly not contributing. Manager and team could be a contributing factor, but I suspect it's more of the former.

Fully agree with this. I've tried defending him in the past few months, but his head is clearly not in it. 

And yesterday he made things more difficult for the rest of the team by barely being involved.

I don't know if it's the contract standoff or the manager or a combination of things involving his personal life, but I would expect a bit more when you're playing at home in front of fans that have unfurled a colossal banner in support.

It's a shame. Of all the 3 homegrown midfielders we have, Mount would be first pick but he's not making things easy for anyone. 

Probably needs a Mourinho type manager to light a fire under him, but that's not happening anytime soon.

[Reddish-Blue 2,505]

25 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Fully agree with this. I've tried defending him in the past few months, but his head is clearly not in it. 

And yesterday he made things more difficult for the rest of the team by barely being involved.

I don't know if it's the contract standoff or the manager or a combination of things involving his personal life, but I would expect a bit more when you're playing at home in front of fans that have unfurled a colossal banner in support.

It's a shame. Of all the 3 homegrown midfielders we have, Mount would be first pick but he's not making things easy for anyone. 

Probably needs a Mourinho type manager to light a fire under him, but that's not happening anytime soon.

That's the problem though, we keep making up excuses for these players when in reality, he's just an average midfielder who was good for a season and a bit. 

I doubt there is any player out there who has gone through their career without personal issues or even contract issues but a class player will still be motivated enough to prove a point every now and then.  Like you're at home, the fans give you a banner to show support and you put in a performance that belongs in the lower levels of the Championship. 

 If Mount really is as good as people are saying, he needs to put in a top class performance every now and then and show the new owners why he deserves the same type of money as Reece. 

[Vesper 30,178]

1 hour ago, Reddish-Blue said:

That's the problem though, we keep making up excuses for these players when in reality, he's just an average midfielder who was good for a season and a bit. 

I doubt there is any player out there who has gone through their career without personal issues or even contract issues but a class player will still be motivated enough to prove a point every now and then.  Like you're at home, the fans give you a banner to show support and you put in a performance that belongs in the lower levels of the Championship. 

 If Mount really is as good as people are saying, he needs to put in a top class performance every now and then and show the new owners why he deserves the same type of money as Reece. 

yes

and

Mount sure as hell is NOT worth £91m in salary for 7 years (the minimum he is asking for is £13m per year, I was seen some reports he wants Raheem Sterling money, with is is $16.9m per year, £118.3m over 7 years)

[robsblubot 3,595]

1 hour ago, Reddish-Blue said:

That's the problem though, we keep making up excuses for these players when in reality, he's just an average midfielder who was good for a season and a bit. 

I doubt there is any player out there who has gone through their career without personal issues or even contract issues but a class player will still be motivated enough to prove a point every now and then.  Like you're at home, the fans give you a banner to show support and you put in a performance that belongs in the lower levels of the Championship. 

 If Mount really is as good as people are saying, he needs to put in a top class performance every now and then and show the new owners why he deserves the same type of money as Reece. 

Reece deserves money? for what not playing? I think that he's a very good player when on form, which lasts like 5 games (between the time he gets 100% and picks up a new injury). Same with Chilwell.

Sure yes, and Mount is 24 (25 in the summer) and had more than a good season and a bit, like you said (plenty of stats to corroborate that). Perhaps he may still have a "good season and a bit" in him yet, which might be enough for another "minor" trophy? 😉

Dunno about you folks, but I like winning and I value players who turn up at the most important time.

Regarding wages, it's all very competitive, so either his agent is playing hardball or he has options.

[Reddish-Blue 2,505]

55 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

Reece deserves money? for what not playing? I think that he's a very good player when on form, which lasts like 5 games (between the time he gets 100% and picks up a new injury). Same with Chilwell.

It's a shame that Reece has picked up so many injuries but when he's fit and running that flank, you can't deny that he's a game changer on the flank. Can't say the same about Mount, doesn't have that influence on games, tends to drift out of games. 

56 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

Dunno about you folks, but I like winning and I value players who turn up at the most important time.

I agree, I value players that turn up at the most important time...and it's a shame to say that Mount isn't turning up when the club need him the most (through his current Potter crisis).  I remember when the rest of the players quit trying a few years back and Willian was the one that stood up and had that run of games where he was a difference maker.

 

[Special Juan 28,141]

He's was shit again Saturday, yes a lot of them were, but this is his thread and there is no hiding from how far out of form he is.

He's not very good.

[NikkiCFC 8,319]

This is actually smart by us. In the summer we will get all the offers from other clubs that will also offer Mount potential salary and he will be surprised when no one comes close to what he wants. 

[Vegetable 830]

He gets all the criticism rn (partly rightfully so) and people want him out, but given it's Chelsea, I can already see him being played in his natural position in Pool, City or whatever and suddenly turning out the second coming of Salah and De Bruyne in one body.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

4 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

This is actually smart by us. In the summer we will get all the offers from other clubs that will also offer Mount potential salary and he will be surprised when no one comes close to what he wants. 

Not necessarily. The worst thing is with these contract talks being shelved it can just linger like a cloud over the player. As it did with both Courtois (who eventually ended up forcing a move) and Hazard (who again had no intentions on resigning here despite several offers being made). It was clear once we shelved their contract talks for whatever reasons, be it focusing on the remainder of the season or whatever, they would be leaving.

Plus Mason’s apparent wage demands have already been used as a stick to beat him with so this will just provide more ammunition for folk despite it being the club wanting to shelve them to the summer due to no breakthrough in prior negotiations.

Who’s to say he will want to renew in the summer? Its more than likely a reality that we are going to finish mid table this season and no doubt him and his agent will be looking out and about for alternatives. Suppose it could also be very dependant on if Graham Potters still in charge next season too because I will put my neck out and say we will likely be mid table again by the end of that season. Seeing very little to indicate that he can do anything to change the tide regardless of how many players we sign.

I have a pretty strong feeling Liverpool will ramp their interest up in Mason come the summer.

A sale would again throw some big questions at the owner plus the ramifications for the academy if he’s willing to shift one of the biggest success stories of it because he wont put his hands in his pockets to pay a wage similar to what he’s given other players. There should already be concerns for anybody trying to break through the academy to first team in the next 18-24 months as it is with say 60% of our signings being 22 and under. I don’t see how there is a pathway between the academy and first team for a lot of players now based on the last 2 windows. Not that it was hugely strong beforehand but it was easier to see I think more so than ever over the last 3 or 4 seasons. 

And then if the reason is we need to sell players for FFP then maybe Boehly and co shouldn’t of been so prominent in spending £600m in 1 season without fully understanding the ramifications of FFP. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,382]

Curious to know how much he's actually demanding. 

[Blue Armour 4,439]

2 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Not necessarily. The worst thing is with these contract talks being shelved it can just linger like a cloud over the player. As it did with both Courtois (who eventually ended up forcing a move) and Hazard (who again had no intentions on resigning here despite several offers being made). It was clear once we shelved their contract talks for whatever reasons, be it focusing on the remainder of the season or whatever, they would be leaving.

Plus Mason’s apparent wage demands have already been used as a stick to beat him with so this will just provide more ammunition for folk despite it being the club wanting to shelve them to the summer due to no breakthrough in prior negotiations.

Who’s to say he will want to renew in the summer? Its more than likely a reality that we are going to finish mid table this season and no doubt him and his agent will be looking out and about for alternatives. Suppose it could also be very dependant on if Graham Potters still in charge next season too because I will put my neck out and say we will likely be mid table again by the end of that season. Seeing very little to indicate that he can do anything to change the tide regardless of how many players we sign.

I have a pretty strong feeling Liverpool will ramp their interest up in Mason come the summer.

A sale would again throw some big questions at the owner plus the ramifications for the academy if he’s willing to shift one of the biggest success stories of it because he wont put his hands in his pockets to pay a wage similar to what he’s given other players. There should already be concerns for anybody trying to break through the academy to first team in the next 18-24 months as it is with say 60% of our signings being 22 and under. I don’t see how there is a pathway between the academy and first team for a lot of players now based on the last 2 windows. Not that it was hugely strong beforehand but it was easier to see I think more so than ever over the last 3 or 4 seasons. 

And then if the reason is we need to sell players for FFP then maybe Boehly and co shouldn’t of been so prominent in spending £600m in 1 season without fully understanding the ramifications of FFP. 

The poor performances are largely down to him , even if the manager and team are not doing any favors.

But I believe we'll regret it if he does move to another top club, esp. Liverpool.

I'm sure that under an elite manager like Klopp he will raise his game and this will haunt us for years.

Personally I just hope the club and Mount ride out the coming months, and come back with fresh minds next season.

Wishful thinking, but with Potter getting this much time to adjust, why not give some of the players more time.

 

[Blue Armour 4,439]

1 hour ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Curious to know how much he's actually demanding. 

Apparently 3 times his current 80k pw wages. 

Bit unfortunate for him that he has to negotiate for this when his form is the poorest it has ever been.

[MoroccanBlue 5,382]

1 hour ago, Blue Armour said:

Apparently 3 times his current 80k pw wages. 

Bit unfortunate for him that he has to negotiate for this when his form is the poorest it has ever been.

What's his leverage exactly? We can't use his POTY awards whilst at the same time laugh Jorginho won UEFA player of the year and 3rd in the Balon d"OR.  

He's been poor for about a year a half now. I actually don't think the Liverpool rumors have any weight considering Klopp rates Harvey Elliot highly, not to mention their Jude Bellingham obsession. 

[Blue Armour 4,439]

15 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

What's his leverage exactly? We can't use his POTY awards whilst at the same time laugh Jorginho won UEFA player of the year and 3rd in the Balon d"OR.  

He's been poor for about a year a half now. I actually don't think the Liverpool rumors have any weight considering Klopp rates Harvey Elliot highly, not to mention their Jude Bellingham obsession. 

Exactly, he has no leverage at the moment. That's why it's best that both parties just drop talks for the time being.

I'm not going to discount Liverpool bidding for him. There have been many rumors circulating around Mount with only one club's name (Pool) actually being mentioned. This is a little similar to Rudiger & Madrid, with how the rumors broke out., even if there were more obvious clues there. Them paying top price for Bellingham is not a certainty.

[MoroccanBlue 5,382]

16 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Exactly, he has no leverage at the moment. That's why it's best that both parties just drop talks for the time being.

I'm not going to discount Liverpool bidding for him. There have been many rumors circulating around Mount with only one club's name (Pool) actually being mentioned. This is a little similar to Rudiger & Madrid, with how the rumors broke out., even if there were more obvious clues there. Them paying top price for Bellingham is not a certainty.

There was also rumors Liverpool wanted Pulisic so I don't trust anything linking to them.