N'Golo Kante

[Vesper 28,773]

52 minutes ago, Jason said:

Whisper it, but should Chelsea sell N’Golo Kante?

https://theathletic.com/1543014/2020/01/19/ngolo-kante-transfer-chelsea-real-madrid/

 

 

[OneMoSalah 8,776]

8 hours ago, Jason said:

Sure but Kante isn't in the XI only for defensive purposes, is he? He has been tasked to do both sides of the job and we all know his deficiencies going forward, which was a huge problem yesterday because Newcastle only bothered about defending. If it was any of the Big 6, Wolves, Sheffield United etc, then sure, play Kante. But it was Newcastle, who has been bloody parking the bus all season under Steve Bruce and they were barely able to string together any proper counter attacks. We have made it work before without Kante in the XI in the first half of the season and won games comfortably, notably against defensive sides. So, I'm not sure why Kante is needed all of a sudden in such games. Kovacic should have started instead of Kante OR Kante should have been subbed off for Batshuayi instead and go 2 up front instead of sticking with like-for-like changes/system late on.

We have seen in a 3 Kante can also provide in the final third (under Sarri) despite the talk of he should of played as a fixed DM....

People thought Sarri was stubborn but we broke down in the final third due to being too slow and lack of off the ball movement more than poor decision making I felt. Mount has been a huge culprit in the last run of games as has Franks constant stubbornness in his selection of him. Emerson or even Alonso's output at Lb again would be valued in these sort of games but he refuses to play them even in matches where they will basically be wing backs... I mean people keep bringing Reeces final ball and ability to cross at RB but havent said why isnt Frank using Emerson or Alonso, who are naturally left footed on the other side to try create similar...

Against a team who play counter surely having someone whos best strengths are recovering the ball, second balls and being very effective in duels is handy? Especially if we are going to press high to win the ball back? Or if they are going to get up the pitch eventually, having his ability to recover the ball would be vital I think.

The honus isnt just on Kante to create as he isnt purely an offensive minded midfielder. While he can still do better so can the whole attack and in particular as I've said, Mount has shown this season he can do it but has played a lot of minutes where he hasnt. Same with Willian and others. He can do it but its very scarce which has been frustrating throughout his whole spell here. Pedro and Barkleys lack of minutes has also been a huge factor in why we have struggled. While they arent the best surely Barkley if he can recreate his performance against Burnley, can offer something? Or Pedros running in behind teams off the ball can offer something different to everyone standing on their heels waiting?

We do sorely lack Pulisic in these games I feel though. He has got a lot of qualities in 1 v 1s and his end product is very decent. He has a purpose when he gets the ball in the final third. 

Giroud can offer an alternative compared to Tammy but Frank again, wrongly in my eyes, has basically exiled him from the team and sticks to his system of 1 up far too often. 

If it was Jose, Sarri or Conte there would be a lot more uproar regarding poor use of squad players. I dont think its unfair to say the same about Frank. Especially when he wasnt sure if he would get a transfer window this season, not using these players more often in certain moments of games/the season where they might have made a difference has killed us in certain matches along with the poor set up from corners and freekicks which will continually be a problem. We just seem naive in these scenarios.

I suppose you can only piss with the cock you've got but at the same time theres been obvious mistakes in how hes used the squad/substitutes. If he doesnt find the solutions or manage to make improvements in these sort of games we will not be so comfortable in our position in the table and he could find himself under immense pressure.

I think now with the January window he has to make at least 1 or 2 signings to bring something else to the group, be it defensively or offensively. Conceding in stoppage time to Newcastle depsite having 19 shots (not many on target either) just sums up how weve been in recent times. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,296]

Win percentage with Kanté this season: 36%

Win percentage without Kanté this season: 71%

[Jase 43,479]

4 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

We have seen in a 3 Kante can also provide in the final third (under Sarri) despite the talk of he should of played as a fixed DM....

People thought Sarri was stubborn but we broke down in the final third due to being too slow and lack of off the ball movement more than poor decision making I felt. Mount has been a huge culprit in the last run of games as has Franks constant stubbornness in his selection of him. Emerson or even Alonso's output at Lb again would be valued in these sort of games but he refuses to play them even in matches where they will basically be wing backs... I mean people keep bringing Reeces final ball and ability to cross at RB but havent said why isnt Frank using Emerson or Alonso, who are naturally left footed on the other side to try create similar...

Against a team who play counter surely having someone whos best strengths are recovering the ball, second balls and being very effective in duels is handy? Especially if we are going to press high to win the ball back? Or if they are going to get up the pitch eventually, having his ability to recover the ball would be vital I think.

The honus isnt just on Kante to create as he isnt purely an offensive minded midfielder. While he can still do better so can the whole attack and in particular as I've said, Mount has shown this season he can do it but has played a lot of minutes where he hasnt. Same with Willian and others. He can do it but its very scarce which has been frustrating throughout his whole spell here. Pedro and Barkleys lack of minutes has also been a huge factor in why we have struggled. While they arent the best surely Barkley if he can recreate his performance against Burnley, can offer something? Or Pedros running in behind teams off the ball can offer something different to everyone standing on their heels waiting?

Kante is not the only problem but he is a problem in the way we are trying to play. Kante has shown that he can play the advanced midfield role and fair play to him for having adapted but if we are being honest, the results have been mixed at best. He has looked great in certain games - especially when there is space to play with - and bang average in others - notably against defensive teams. He has not been as consistent as he was when playing in the more conservative system like under Ranieri and Conte. If we are playing against any of the Big 6, Wolves, Sheffield United etc, then yes, we would need Kante but against the very defensive teams like Newcastle yesterday, Kante's inclusion in the XI is questionable. We played without him earlier this season, using a midfield combination of Jorginho/Kovacic/Mount/Barkley, and won comfortably/convincingly against defensive teams. We made it work then, why not now? I do not agree with it but I can accept Lampard starting Kante yesterday but given how the game was panning out, he should have taken Kante out and just gone with 2 up front instead of just making like-for-like sub with Batshuayi for Abraham. We could have thrown the kitchen sink a little bit and see what would happen. But no, Lampard decided to play it safe and we still lost to a stupid goal anyway. 

You said the onus is not on Kante to create, that is true but he is being used in a role that requires him to contribute offensively and he has not been doing that, he is not capable of doing that, not on a regular basis. Kante has not been a bust in this advanced midfield role but it feels like he is neither here nor there right now. He is not consistent going forward and he is not shining defensively in the way he used to under Ranieri/Conte (see my previous post above for some of his defensive numbers). In the style we are trying to play, Kante looks just like your average hard working player with no decisive quality instead of the world class Kante that he is always referred to. 

[Fernando 6,453]

Kante as a 3 men midfielders is a waste. 

Has been horrible lately. 

He has always been an always will be the best as a 2 DM. 

[Vesper 28,773]

SELL HIM IN THE SUMMER OR IT'S A MAJOR COFFIN NAIL IN THE TEAM'S FUTURE UNLESS WE SACK LAMPARD AND BRING IN SIMEONE OR SOME OTHER DEFENSIVE COUNTER-ATTACKING MANAGER 

[MoroccanBlue 5,296]

Is largely, largely responsible for our lack of creation and chance conversion in the final third. 

Think we need to open our eyes and accept reality. We may need to move on from Kante to evolve as a club. 

[Tomo 21,733]

15 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Is largely, largely responsible for our lack of creation and chance conversion in the final third. 

Think we need to open our eyes and accept reality. We may need to move on from Kante to evolve as a club. 

That's the one thing I will say Lamps should have done better on, breaking up the Jorgi/Kova/Mount trio when it was working so well has been a contributor to our fall from grace.

Watford away was in my opinion our best PL performance for years (the close final scoreline was criminal injustice) and the catalyst was that trio, it's absolute madness we've only seen it once since.

[Vesper 28,773]

7 minutes ago, Tomo said:

That's the one thing I will say Lamps should have done better on, breaking up the Jorgi/Kova/Mount trio when it was working so well has been a contributor to our fall from grace.

Watford away was in my opinion our best PL performance for years (the close final scoreline was criminal injustice) and the catalyst was that trio, it's absolute madness we've only seen it once since.

bingo

further collateral damage from the continued square-peg, round-hole shoehorning in of Kante

[Blue Armour 4,278]

He's probably not the only one, but boy was Kante invisible today.

He was just not into the game at all. Did barely anything all game.

 

[LAM09 6,744]

He's probably not the only one, but boy was Kante invisible today.
He was just not into the game at all. Did barely anything all game.
 

Did we watch the same game?

A bit shaking at the start, but he was rather solid defensively for the rest of the game.

[Blue Armour 4,278]

3 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

Did we watch the same game?

A bit shaking at the start, but he was rather solid defensively for the rest of the game.

IMO, he was invisible in attack, and I think he was just as useless as everyone else in midfield in terms of defense, especially in that 2nd half. 

No one was pressing, and we were giving Leicester easy forays into that final third. They carved us open time and again every time they went up the pitch. 

This wasn't the typical lung bursting performance we've seen from Kante. 

[LAM09 6,744]

IMO, he was invisible in attack, and I think he was just as useless as everyone else in midfield in terms of defense, especially in that 2nd half. 
No one was pressing, and we were giving Leicester easy forays into that final third. They carved us open time and again every time they went up the pitch. 
This wasn't the typical lung bursting performance we've seen from Kante. 

"In attack"...

That isn't his game despite managers thrusting him furthest ahead because of his energy. Out of three mids, he was the only one to have a good game.

[Kun Aguer0 36]

Kante just killed them with interceptions and duels won, I am not saying that he was amazing but definitely above average performance from him 

[Vesper 28,773]

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1376129/LiveStatistics/England-Premier-League-2019-2020-Leicester-Chelsea

 

Disp: Player is dispossessed on the ball by an opponent – no dribble involved    

UnsTouches: Bad control

 

PA%: Pass accuracy in %

 

 

[communicate 2,703]

22 hours ago, Blue Armour said:

IMO, he was invisible in attack, and I think he was just as useless as everyone else in midfield in terms of defense, especially in that 2nd half. 

No one was pressing, and we were giving Leicester easy forays into that final third. They carved us open time and again every time they went up the pitch. 

This wasn't the typical lung bursting performance we've seen from Kante. 

I honestly not sure whether some people here really watched the game. Kante was absolutely fine. I have 0 problem with his performance. 

[Vesper 28,773]

3 hours ago, communicate said:

I honestly not sure whether some people here really watched the game. Kante was absolutely fine. I have 0 problem with his performance. 

he had really good defensive patches but was so poor in passing, turnovers and offensive flow for even more stretches

it is like Azpi at LB

the defensive side is fine (this game, but not always, certainly not to a WC level he had for years), but the offence is horrid far too often

we will never be a great team with Kante played and playing as he is this season and in this system

it is not going to magically happen, sorry I do not believe in wishes, wants, potions and spells

he needs to be sold in the summer whilst we can still get a huge payday

especially if we are going to embark on the huge spending spree that most all expect (to some form and level or another)

he turns 30 next season so its piss or get off the pot time

unless we are going to sack Lamps and schizo-style slam back to a defensive manager, then Kante is square-peg round hole

I will stay on this for as long as it lasts

[communicate 2,703]

On 2/3/2020 at 0:49 AM, Vesper said:

he had really good defensive patches but was so poor in passing, turnovers and offensive flow for even more stretches

it is like Azpi at LB

the defensive side is fine (this game, but not always, certainly not to a WC level he had for years), but the offence is horrid far too often

we will never be a great team with Kante played and playing as he is this season and in this system

it is not going to magically happen, sorry I do not believe in wishes, wants, potions and spells

he needs to be sold in the summer whilst we can still get a huge payday

especially if we are going to embark on the huge spending spree that most all expect (to some form and level or another)

he turns 30 next season so its piss or get off the pot time

unless we are going to sack Lamps and schizo-style slam back to a defensive manager, then Kante is square-peg round hole

I will stay on this for as long as it lasts

I have no problem moving Kante because he is 30 and he will be too old by the time our youngster get to their prime age. 

But you need replacement and he better be good. People in the beginning of the season was excited about our team playing with kova + jorginho combination, but no one talked about zouma and Tomori performance, how much one on one that they won in order for us to stop conceding chances