N'Golo Kante

[LAM09 6,744]

To think we could have had KDB and Kante both in our team right now.  Jorginho Kante De Bruyne:fainthv9:  But yeah Kante over KDB for me if I had to choose one.

We would arguably have a top 5 XI had Lampard been incharge 5-6 years ago.

What ifs... [emoji53]

[BlueLyon 9,359]

3 hours ago, LAM09 said:

We would arguably have a top 5 XI had Lampard been incharge 5-6 years ago.

What ifs...

Likely the best team in the world. We could actualy have 

Salah, Hazard, Kdb and Kante in the same 11.

These have gone to become 4 best players in the league for years.

[OneMoSalah 8,776]

52 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Likely the best team in the world. We could actualy have 

Salah, Hazard, Kdb and Kante in the same 11.

These have gone to become 4 best players in the league for years.

Again though Salah and De Bruyne all those years ago werent even half the players they are now. I have doubts if both Salah or De Bruyne would have ever turned out so good if they stayed here, even if they played because the demands and expectations at Fiorentina, Roma and Wolfsburg are lower and they maybe gave these guys more of a platform to do their thing. Frank even alluded to it prior to playing Liverpool that Salah has talent but didnt dislodge or play as good as the others in his position when Frank was still playing. Fair to say sometimes these things dont work out for whatever reasons. Fair enough they hardly got sufficient chances but again, if someone said to me that the same kid who couldnt even look half interested for us against Shrewsbury I think it was, who was asked to stay back and train with the reserves by Jose instead of going to the Basel game in the CL and would only make say 10 appearances max for us, would turn into one of the best attacking midfielders on the planet I would have laughed, as would many Id imagine, plain and simple as that.

[LAM09 6,744]

Again though Salah and De Bruyne all those years ago werent even half the players they are now. I have doubts if both Salah or De Bruyne would have ever turned out so good if they stayed here, even if they played because the demands and expectations at Fiorentina, Roma and Wolfsburg are lower and they maybe gave these guys more of a platform to do their thing. Frank even alluded to it prior to playing Liverpool that Salah has talent but didnt dislodge or play as good as the others in his position when Frank was still playing. Fair to say sometimes these things dont work out for whatever reasons. Fair enough they hardly got sufficient chances but again, if someone said to me that the same kid who couldnt even look half interested for us against Shrewsbury I think it was, who was asked to stay back and train with the reserves by Jose instead of going to the Basel game in the CL and would only make say 10 appearances max for us, would turn into one of the best attacking midfielders on the planet I would have laughed, as would many Id imagine, plain and simple as that.

Salah's efforts at Fiorentina in the space of 5~ months alone should have made everyone stand up and take notice.  

 

 

 

Neither player was given ample chances and that's all she wrote.

 

 

 

[OneMoSalah 8,776]

4 hours ago, LAM09 said:

Salah's efforts at Fiorentina in the space of 5~ months alone should have made everyone stand up and take notice.  

 

 

 

 

Neither player was given ample chances and that's all she wrote.

 

 

 

Which was the exact same reasoning for Juan Cuadrado when we signed him. Ample chances or not, there is no guarantee Salah could have done that here based off 5 months in Fiorentina. Maybe made folk understand he should of been given more of a chance yes but weve seen things not sork out with a variety of players at different clubs for whatever reasons. Plus for me, Salahs best football in Italy came in a Roma shirt, 100%. 

[LAM09 6,744]

Which was the exact same reasoning for Juan Cuadrado when we signed him. Ample chances or not, there is no guarantee Salah could have done that here based off 5 months in Fiorentina. Maybe made folk understand he should of been given more of a chance yes but weve seen things not sork out with a variety of players at different clubs for whatever reasons. Plus for me, Salahs best football in Italy came in a Roma shirt, 100%. 

We bought Cuadrado a year after his hotstreak, which is something we always seem to do.

You would have hoped so considering he was playing with better players for two years.

[communicate 2,703]

13 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

Likely the best team in the world. We could actualy have 

Salah, Hazard, Kdb and Kante in the same 11.

These have gone to become 4 best players in the league for years.

It is very2 difficult to build a balance team with Salah and Hazard at the same team. Hazard is so bad defensively that you need to compensate. Salah is not really good at defending either. 

 

[communicate 2,703]

4 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Which was the exact same reasoning for Juan Cuadrado when we signed him. Ample chances or not, there is no guarantee Salah could have done that here based off 5 months in Fiorentina. Maybe made folk understand he should of been given more of a chance yes but weve seen things not sork out with a variety of players at different clubs for whatever reasons. Plus for me, Salahs best football in Italy came in a Roma shirt, 100%. 

I have no problem letting Salah go. To get the best out of Salah, you need to make him the star of the team. Play him in his current role in Liverpool where he is playing wide forward making constant run into channel, he is absolute world class. If you ask him to pick the ball deep and create, it is better to sign other player 

 

[manpe 10,861]

2 hours ago, communicate said:

I have no problem letting Salah go. To get the best out of Salah, you need to make him the star of the team. Play him in his current role in Liverpool where he is playing wide forward making constant run into channel, he is absolute world class. If you ask him to pick the ball deep and create, it is better to sign other player 

 

I think Chelsea was the wrong club for Salah from the beginning, too big a slice too soon for him. Fiorentina and Roma were suitable environments for him to continue developing and get to where he is now. Though I still wish somebody had recognized his real potential here.

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, manpe said:

I think Chelsea was the wrong club for Salah from the beginning, too big a slice too soon for him. Fiorentina and Roma were suitable environments for him to continue developing and get to where he is now. Though I still wish somebody had recognized his real potential here.

That's the thing, isn't it? It's easy to say that they aren't ready etc but if you recognize the talent, then you gotta be patient and nurture them into great players. Binning them just because they don't perform immediately is a bad mindset, it's like being Mourinho. 

[OneMoSalah 8,776]

3 hours ago, communicate said:

I have no problem letting Salah go. To get the best out of Salah, you need to make him the star of the team. Play him in his current role in Liverpool where he is playing wide forward making constant run into channel, he is absolute world class. If you ask him to pick the ball deep and create, it is better to sign other player 

 

Its not even that, he wasnt comfortably a better fit for any of the attacking positions under Mourinho if we honestly look back at how Willian, Eden and even Oscar did in that period (which wasnt always brilliant but was effective in parts) as well as any of the others we had here and ultimately it was his say who went in the team. Its his issue for not seeing his long term development but who says he didnt? He might have but just couldnt guarantee him games. Again though I did hope at the time he had got more games but it didnt happen and fair enough it backfired on us in the longer run but thats just been our luck with the likes of him, de Bruyne and even Lukaku. Its not a guarantee that these guys would have even wanted to come back here or even that they'd have had the same success as at other clubs (although thinking about it under Conte in his first season, Mo Salah on the right, with Eden on the left and Costa in the middle would of been very very good).

Kevins a different story as well because hes a number 10 and since Jose left up until now we havent really played with an actual out and out number 10. Sure if he was there youd maybe think we would have but the Kevin de Bruyne that apparently told Jose he wasnt happy being on the bench in only the 3rd PL game of the season after playing vs Hull Cit6 and Man United, left here with his tail between his legs after being told he was 5th or 6th choice by Jose depending on if Mata left. He had talent for sure but I didnt think he would become as good as he did in the short space of time it took him. Went to Germany and 18 months later, a short period in terms of a potential 16, 17 or 18 year career, he was basically the best attacking midfielder in Europe bar a few obvious ones. I doubt many would of expected that so soon after the move and how he fared here.

We wont be the only club who let go of players who dont fit or dont do the business for them only for them to go on and prove their former clubs wrong. No point being too overly worried about departures in the transfer market 4 or 5 years ago now. 

[Jase 43,479]

Since we're on the subject of Salah/De Bruyne, Matt Law wrote this few days ago...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/10/07/shrewd-frank-lampard-holds-nerve-christian-pulisic-chelsea-look/

The great mystery of how Salah never made it at Chelsea has finally been solved by Telegraph Sport and it was Tottenham Hotspur left-back Danny Rose who effectively ended his Blues career before it had properly started.

Former Chelsea manager Jose Mourinho had pushed hard for the signing Salah ahead of Antoine Griezmann, who was then at Real Sociedad and had been tracked by Chelsea for some time.

Salah was signed from Basel in January 2014 as the player who was meant to take over from Willian, but struggled to make a quick impact in the more physical environment of English football.

Already frustrated by his first 11 months as a Chelsea player, Mourinho sent Salah on for the final 18 minutes of the New Year’s Day defeat to Tottenham with his team trailing 4-2 in what became a title-winning season.

Salah was hit hard twice by Rose soon after stepping off the bench as Spurs went on to win the game 5-3 and Mourinho returned to work the next day demanding the winger was sold or loaned out immediately. He played once more in the FA Cup defeat to Bradford City before joining Fiorentina and the rest, as they say, is history.

De Bruyne had left Chelsea in the January that Salah had been signed, having lost patience with Mouinho’s treatment of him.

Telegraph Sport can reveal the snapping point came in October 2013, when the Belgian was left out of the squad for a Champions League game against Steaua Bucharest and instead instructed to train with the Under-21s for three days - a week after a poor performance in the League Cup against Swindon Town.

[OneMoSalah 8,776]

46 minutes ago, Jason said:

Since we're on the subject of Salah/De Bruyne, Matt Law wrote this few days ago...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/10/07/shrewd-frank-lampard-holds-nerve-christian-pulisic-chelsea-look/

 

 

Ah so it was Swindon not Shrewsbury. Yeah that game he was poor. He looked as if he was playing in lead boots although I know he isn't the fastest but he looked very laboured. There was another cup game, probably Shrewsbury, where Mourinho slaughtered Andre Schurrle, Filipe Luis, Mo Salah and other squad players as well the next season I am sure saying something along the lines of they didn't make it very difficult for him to decide who would be included in the next game but again he was right as many performed poorly and we only got through due to an own goal IIRC. Maybe 10-15 years ago it would of got a reaction and not offended as many players as he seems to have done since his second spell here but its all changed now I suppose you only look at when OGS replaced him at United and the response he got from the likes of Pogba, Martial, Rashford compared to what they were doing before (also you look at these guys now and others under OGS when hes apparently dressed them down in the dressing room after poor performances) or when he got replaced at Real by Carlo etc. I'd say the same with demoting Kevin to the reserves, imagine if a Ferguson or Mourinho or Capello or someone did that to a kid in the early 2000s, chances are it would work back then than what it would now. I think even at Hibernian, the senior players reportedly went to the chairman and complained about Neil Lennon which eventually ended up getting him sacked because he apparently had been shouting at some players or a lot of them after poor performances. Its not just at the very top level, this sort of management can cause issues at most levels.  

 

[communicate 2,703]

7 hours ago, manpe said:

I think Chelsea was the wrong club for Salah from the beginning, too big a slice too soon for him. Fiorentina and Roma were suitable environments for him to continue developing and get to where he is now. Though I still wish somebody had recognized his real potential here.

True he come too early. Physically he wasn't as strong as right now. However, there is a reason why good player succeed in one club and not the other. Let's forget about the off the field stuff. On the field, system and what you are asked to do matter. 

 

 

[Jase 43,479]

[Milan 17,853]

As I was worried a few weeks back, he is becoming another Essien with his injuries.

[Jase 43,479]

4 minutes ago, milan.cech said:

As I was worried a few weeks back, he is becoming another Essien with his injuries.

But what exactly is the cause of this? We certainly seem to have rush him back so many times!

[Laylabelle 9,351]

Hoping nothing to serious! If he isn't given the right time to recover he'll never be right though damage may already be done