The Mourinho Thread

[Toli 977]

We are not.

Last two years you could say we are in trasition. But we have also been spending of millions of pounds on players while making no attemp to use our youth academy. A lot of the players that we have nought have settled into the club and we should e capale of winning the title.

And considering that Jose has given me little evidence that he will be a long term appontment and will leave in 4 years like all the other clubs. He needs to win things now, and not try and use that excuse.

And consaidering that I don't think

we have a new coach. of course we are in transition. look how he tries to change our way of playing. look how mata plays in it. we are definetely in transition. its even hard to believe, that we are only few points of topp without having a world.class DM/Cm and a decent striker.

[Jase 43,479]

Well, I am not 100% sure, but...

As someone was wondering during the game "why is he on the wing while he is our slowest AM ?", it gotta be said that he is also the worst when it comes to defensive contribution. Furthermore, our pivot is not setting the world on fire — far from it. It happens that when Mata plays in the middle, there is a huge gap in the middle of the parc ; between him and the pivot ; which allow the opposition to overflow us in midfield.

Thus I believe that Mourinho has played Mata down the right wing to nullify as much as possible his deficiency in defensive duties, and as a consequence to not lose the midfield battle. We also have to take into account that Azpilicueta was the right back and Ramires can give a hand on that right side (thanks to his mobility).

To conclude, Mourinho did not play Mata on the right wing in order to make Mata look bad as some people were saying (*shake my head*), but rather because it was where his defensive flaws would less hurt the team — I guess...

A decent point and it does make me wonder if we solve our pivot problems, will he be playing Mata in there? After all, Sneijder and Ozil wasn't exactly the best of players defensively but had good solid pivots behind them to make that midfield work. But then again, given the situation with Mata right now, doubt we'll be able to see that 'experiment'.

[NiclasCFC 2,582]

A decent point and it does make me wonder if we solve our pivot problems, will he be playing Mata in there? After all, Sneijder and Ozil wasn't exactly the best of players defensively but had good solid pivots behind them to make that midfield work. But then again, given the situation with Mata right now, doubt we'll be able to see that 'experiment'.

We are building a team based on pressing when we defend and that was not the case for José at Inter and Real and because of that he could afford playing Sneijder and Özil at the nr 10 position.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

we have a new coach. of course we are in transition. look how he tries to change our way of playing. look how mata plays in it. we are definetely in transition. its even hard to believe, that we are only few points of topp without having a world.class DM/Cm and a decent striker.

We've been changing coaches nearly every season, we still win trophies (we won an FA Cup, Champions league and Europa league under 3 different managers), so even if you believe in the whole idea that we are in transition, that does not give Jose an excuse not to win the title this season, considering he also has January to buy players he should have bought in the summer.

[Jase 43,479]

We are building a team based on pressing when we defend and that was not the case for José at Inter and Real and because of that he could afford playing Sneijder and Özil at the nr 10 position.

No, Mourinho practically did the same with Inter and Real Madrid and certainly more so with the latter. To say he is only doing it now is somewhat nonsensical especially when transitions are highly important to him.

[Rom2013 446]

We've been changing coaches nearly every season, we still win trophies (we won an FA Cup, Champions league and Europa league under 3 different managers), so even if you believe in the whole idea that we are in transition, that does not give Jose an excuse not to win the title this season, considering he also has January to buy players he should have bought in the summer.

We won the Champions League all the other titles are minor and a lot less important. And everyone knows how CHelsea won the Champions League... God helped a lot.

There is a difference between Champions League/Premiere League and all the other competitions.

And what really measures the quality of a team in the big football countries is the League. For example Liverpool won the CHampions and at that time Chelsea was by far the best team in the country and maybe in the world. Chelsea won the Champions League and was 6th in the League.

Winning is important, but you can't compare Europa League or a minor cup with the Premiere League.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

We won the Champions League all the other titles are minor and a lot less important. And everyone knows how CHelsea won the Champions League... God helped a lot.

There is a difference between Champions League/Premiere League and all the other competitions.

And what really measures the quality of a team in the big football countries is the League. For example Liverpool won the CHampions and at that time Chelsea was by far the best team in the country and maybe in the world. Chelsea won the Champions League and was 6th in the League.

Winning is important, but you can't compare Europa League or a minor cup with the Premiere League.

I'm saying that in the last couple of years that you could call being in a transition we were still winning trophies, and its my frim belief that this team (compared to the others) should be able to win the title this season.

[Tomo 21,733]

I'm saying that in the last couple of years that you could call being in a transition we were still winning trophies, and its my frim belief that this team (compared to the others) should be able to win the title this season.

The Cup's are a lottery and shouldn't really be used as a barometer of club progress, like for example in 2012 when we won the FA Cup and CL, was great yes and i reveled in Munich all summer, but on the other hand that 6th place finish eat away at me. Most teams, even the crap one's, win atleast 10-12 games a season in all comps, like with Wigan last season, 6 of them could fall on FA Cup week and they get the cup.

I will make my own assessment on the league, if we say finish 2nd but take the Champions to the last day, with more and more games like today and Liverpool as the season goes on, i would go into the close season feeling a lot better about where we are heading than i did in 2012 (even if we win nothing this season compared to 2 knockout cup's in 2012).

But you are right in the fact that the phrase 'transition' is wearing a bit thin, we still are technically, but we are in the late stages of it, so we should still have enough to challenge, at the very least.

[blu35_army 551]

Just Win the FA Cup, 2nd in league, and Semifinalist in EL should make me satisfied....

[The_Flash 1,144]

I really want to win the league.

[The_Flash 1,144]

Jose said in the summer we are going to get some people, and next season we will be important contenders, how about this season? I know we are weighed down by Ba, Etoo and Torres, but we could give it a good go?

[Yeboii 1,844]

Just Win the FA Cup, 2nd in league, and Semifinalist in EL should make me satisfied....

Well you have some standards

[Barbara 15,149]

But we are in transition.

we have a new coach. of course we are in transition. look how he tries to change our way of playing. look how mata plays in it. we are definetely in transition. its even hard to believe, that we are only few points of topp without having a world.class DM/Cm and a decent striker.

We won the Champions League all the other titles are minor and a lot less important. And everyone knows how CHelsea won the Champions League... God helped a lot.

There is a difference between Champions League/Premiere League and all the other competitions.

And what really measures the quality of a team in the big football countries is the League. For example Liverpool won the CHampions and at that time Chelsea was by far the best team in the country and maybe in the world. Chelsea won the Champions League and was 6th in the League.

Winning is important, but you can't compare Europa League or a minor cup with the Premiere League.

sometimes I honestly believe people don't actually know the meaning of the word transition. Just because we've been in many transitions recently it doesn't change the fact we're in another one now.

Let's start with the basics then, according dictionary.com

transition

tran·si·tion [tran-zish-uhn, -sish-]

noun

1. movement, passage, or change from one position, state, stage, subject, concept, etc., to another; change: the transition from adolescence to adulthood.

We played one style with each of those managers and now we have a new style under Mourinho. Style and concept (Mourinho often uses the words philosophy and identity) are words close in their meaning. So I don't get why people have such a difficult time accepting we're in transition. Not only we're in Mourinho's transition from whatever you want to call Rafa's system (I call it 'Mata as the center of the universe'), di Matteo's defensive approach, AVB's attack oriented mess, others re-using José's old identity and foundation, but we also have a huge change in the profile of players we now sign. We used to sign guys on their prime or very close to that, now we're signing boys with the eventual clinical experienced signing. It doesn't matter if we keep making our transition endless or having endless transitions because we keep changing managers and because we've been changing the profile we sign in the past two years, we're still in transition. A change doesn't nullify the other.

None of the managers before Mourinho went for his system which consists firstly of a lot of pressing and then a lot of attacking. It isn't necessarily possession, although it can be because we decide when to give the opposition possession and when not (ofc it doesn't work every single time, but that's still the plan). We're solid defensively (again at least in paper) so we're comfortable playing without the ball, although we aren't counter-attack based like Real Madrid. We have more similarities with Mourinho's Inter than Mourinho's RM in that aspect imo, but at the end of the day, his current Chelsea isn't a carbon copy of any of his previous works. It has a lot of aspects from RM and some from Inter and even the solid defensive setup from his first spell, but it still differs from every team he's built before us.

We simply attack, it doesn't matter if it's a counter or if we keep possession and patiently build the attack (although I feel a certain urgency in the team and even when we do have possession we try to make it reach the shooting position faster than others possession-based teams - tiki taka or not). We have attacking players and that's the first place we made sure to load our squad because there's a plan I suppose was made prior to José's arrival (although he certainly made his changes and adjustments, I'm sure of it, but still keeping the main idea).

So the system in order of priority imo is: 1) pressing 2) attacking 3) controlling the possession (ours or the opponent's) 4) defending comfortably and solidly, without parking the bus, but also employing as many players as possible (normally 9 outfield players, releasing one). If there's one thing this team does well is pressing and that's why sometimes we don't mind the opposition having the ball. We just haunt them and they don't know if they're more damned with the ball or without it. It's relentless, tiring and it must be annoying and frustrating as hell for our opponents. We just need to sharpen all of those aspects to become the ultimate threat (I see more evolution in the pressing and in the possession controlling right now. Although we attack well, we still have issues finishing and it's not only our strikers, and our defense has had some uncomfortable and unwelcome blips).

Now how people expect those changes to happen, the players to adapt to the tactics, but also to the manager's way of working (coaching style, drills, training sessions, personality, etc) and also the fact we've been changing the profile of player we sign without it being a transition? It's one thing for Lamps, Terry and Cech to look around and see guys around 25, with considerable experience and nearly (if not already) in their prime joining the squad, playing the same system as before, just making a couple of replacements and it's another thing for them to look around and see a bunch of young players (younger than 22), with not as much experience, mixed with a few slightly more experienced and closer to prime players, and a completely different system from the one(s) they've been playing. It all requires adaptation and everything that requires adaptation in my opinion is by definition a transition. If we keep Mourinho and the new signing philosophy (don't see why we wouldn't), then next season won't be transitional anymore, it'll be time to polish, make adjustments, improve specific problems and areas, clinical signings etc. That's called continuation, improvement and polishing and differs conceptually from transition, but there's no denial we're once again transitioning.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

:clap: @barbara

Exactly. Mourinho changed everything our former managers were doing. We want to be good on the ball and off the ball.

If we get more clinical and cut off set piece mistakes, I see us in the future playing as good as madrid 2012 league winners team or bayern munich of last season.

Constant pressing, speed, dribbling and clinical finishing. We will be so hard to beat in the future it will be unreal.

[Fernando 6,453]

So Barbara what system of a team you think he wants to implement?

You mentioned real Madrid and inter, but to me it looks like he is using dortmund as a template.

And that was my favorite, better then Tiki taka.

That for me was complete futbol, as they can play different system for different opponents.

Not like Barcelona that go shit when they get pressured.

[Mouri_Matic 560]

So Barbara what system of a team you think he wants to implement?

You mentioned real Madrid and inter, but to me it looks like he is using dortmund as a template.

And that was my favorite, better then Tiki taka.

That for me was complete futbol, as they can play different system for different opponents.

Not like Barcelona that go shit when they get pressured.

On their day yes but often it doesn't work and relentless pressing means lot of the players are injured, it is good pressing but Dortmund is just doing it way too much and facing problems as the result

[Barbara 15,149]

So Barbara what system of a team you think he wants to implement?

You mentioned real Madrid and inter, but to me it looks like he is using dortmund as a template.

And that was my favorite, better then Tiki taka.

That for me was complete futbol, as they can play different system for different opponents.

Not like Barcelona that go shit when they get pressured.

Yeah, I think a bit from Inter, more from Madrid, but not a carbon copy of either. Dortmund exposed some of RM's weaknesses and Mourinho is aware of that (although the first SF leg was a combination of an ineffective system, but also players not turning up at all) and I guess that's why we aren't exclusively a counter-attack system. I mean neither is RM, but I feel we work the ball much more comfortably than they do. They prefer countering than building up, I don't think we do. We're comfortable doing both, maybe even more building (giving the players we have in Hazard, Oscar, Willian, Mata, Schurrle, KDB. The only ones I do feel are counter-attack players are Schurrle and in a lesser extent Hazard). The one thing we don't have that Inter and RM had though is a strong pivot. Khedira/Alonso and Cambiaso/Motta/Chivu (especially the latter) are a much better pivot than any combination we currently have. I'm positive one of the two clinical signings Mourinho said we'd have during the summer include a top CM he'll probably 'steal' from one of the Champions League teams, otherwise he'd sign them now. The same applies to the striker. He worded his sentence in such a way about the two signings he thinks we still need to make me believe those guys are currently playing Champions League and why invest a lot of money in a player that won't be part of the most important tournament we currently play (although I like EPL more and that's very important too).

It does resemble Dortmund as you said, but I don't think quite either because 1) they're faster and more urgent 2) they have Lewa, and Mourinho knows having a lethal striker is a vital part of Klopp's system. They attack fast and intensely because they know Lewa will get the ball in. But you're right and maybe the final product is a Dortmund style. To be honest, I haven't watched Dortmund that much as I'm really not a Bundesliga fan yet, but the few matches I've watched it was from them in UCL and BL.

As I said I think it's high pressing (high both in quantity as the zone in the pitch where the pressing is done), attack-based (building or counter-attacking) with a solid defense. Such combination of things will allow us to play without dominating possession, although against some sides we will dominate it (just like Madrid did). It's almost like describing Dortmund, but I don't think we are as urgent as they are. They're faster imo, more objective, but then again this is German football we're talking about, so saying that is almost redundancy. Still I think that's the difference, although there's some urgency when we have the ball, it's not as much as Dortmund. Complete football as you put it.

We could be wrong about it, but all signs show that direction imo.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

So Barbara what system of a team you think he wants to implement?

You mentioned real Madrid and inter, but to me it looks like he is using dortmund as a template.

And that was my favorite, better then Tiki taka.

That for me was complete futbol, as they can play different system for different opponents.

Not like Barcelona that go shit when they get pressured.

Dortmund concede way too much goals. We can't afford that since we are not as clinical as them in attack. We would be like bayern last season or madrid 2012