Raheem Sterling

[The Mak 4,459]

Worse than Willian? Sterling with 21 goals and 16 assists in the past two seasons, Willian managing 8 goals and 12 assists.

Pretty irrelevant comparing stas considering the vast difference in teams. Liverpool get a ton of chances to score because teams are more open against them (because teams actually think they can beat Liverpool); we don't get that many chances (that's why we bought Costa and are looking at Griezmann.)

[Sheva. 5,373]

Chelsea need another deadly finisher (apart from Remy and Diego) not another one that misses easy chances like Willian, Oscar, Cesc and Hazard.

Sterling's pace, movement and dribbling is fine but in front of goal he reminds me of Gervinho.

[bababoom 4,478]

IMO Willians best position is the number 10 role, if we get Sterling he'll be able to play on the right and cause all sorts of havoc. Hazard-Willian-Sterling is mouthwatering, if we're playing a possession game they'll be able to press high up the pitch and win the ball back with ease, if we play on the counter the pace on the break would be lethal. I was honestly hoping Cuadrado would be like Sterling but it seems not. Cuadrado is too weak, he doesn't have that 'low centre of gravity and strength on the ball, i'm willing to give him another season but he just looks terrible. Sterling is already one of the best attacking players in the league and he's only 20, he's got massive potential. I wouldn't spend anything crazy on him though, in an ideal world he'd go for around £25 million considering he only has a year left on his contract, but i guess we'll see.

[bababoom 4,478]

Pretty irrelevant comparing stas considering the vast difference in teams. Liverpool get a ton of chances to score because teams are more open against them (because teams actually think they can beat Liverpool); we don't get that many chances (that's why we bought Costa and are looking at Griezmann.)

Isn't that the same as comparing Grizmann stats to our wide players? lets be honest Griezmann has virtually played as a second striker all season (he's scored all his goals in the box this season) i doubt he'll score the same amount on the right wing.

[dUMB 189]

sturridge, coutinho sterling lallana, can henderson, moreno lovren škrtel (some RB), mignolet.

so... he wants to leave... and IMO that team isn't that bad, with 2-3 upgrades they could even finish in top 4 and play CL season after.

all they need is new RB and a class CB for they starting XI.

The real problem for them is there is no depth on the bench at all. Only Markovic will be good enough IMO. I'd sell everyone else.

[bababoom 4,478]

Another player i would love to have is Countinho, alongside Hazard he's one of the best dribblers in world football, a joy to watch. In the next few years he's going to be special.

[iseah100 5,612]

Another player i would love to have is Countinho, alongside Hazard he's one of the best dribblers in world football, a joy to watch. In the next few years he's going to be special.

Not good enough imo.

[LondonsFinest 692]

Not good enough imo.

He;s good, but he is in the same bracket as Oscar in terms of consistency. On their day, I wouldn't choose any other 10, a part maybe from James, but they switch off for some matches. Don't think we need to pluck Coutinho when we have Oscar, and this is coming from a guy, who would prefer Oscar to be replaced. lol

[DYC. 7,542]

He's also played in a more attacking and free spirited team (a team that finished last season as the joint top scorers in the league) and also in a more central role. In fact he's played as a false nine multiple times for Liverpool this season.

If Willian played in a Liverpool team that is built to attack and create and in his favorite position more often/permanently, I'm willing to bet he would have similar or even better stats than Sterling.

Pretty irrelevant comparing stas considering the vast difference in teams. Liverpool get a ton of chances to score because teams are more open against them (because teams actually think they can beat Liverpool); we don't get that many chances (that's why we bought Costa and are looking at Griezmann.)

Liverpool might be more attacking, but they possess less quality. Messi for example would not manage the same numbers playing for Liverpool, because of inferior service and the inferior quality around him, meaning less space and time to operate in and a lot of moves failing because of a lack of understanding and simple lack of quality.

Willian played in Ukraine (!) and he still didn't manage to rack up the stats. Saying Willian would do better in these areas playing for Liverpool is pure speculation so there's no way you can argue that.

Whether Willian is the better player overall is up for discussion, but his finishing and in terms of goal threat and effectivity, he is without a doubt inferior compared to Sterling. And at 20, I'd bank on him to only improve. Not to compare him to Cristiano Ronaldo in terms of quality, but I'm sure he didn't do much better at a similar age (18-20). The same goes for Giggs, Pires etc.

[lionsden 4,689]

Liverpool might be more attacking, but they possess less quality. Messi for example would not manage the same numbers playing for Liverpool, because of inferior service and the inferior quality around him, meaning less space and time to operate in and a lot of moves failing because of a lack of understanding and simple lack of quality.

Willian played in Ukraine (!) and he still didn't manage to rack up the stats. Saying Willian would do better in these areas playing for Liverpool is pure speculation so there's no way you can argue that.

Whether Willian is the better player overall is up for discussion, but his finishing and in terms of goal threat and effectivity, he is without a doubt inferior compared to Sterling. And at 20, I'd bank on him to only improve. Not to compare him to Cristiano Ronaldo in terms of quality, but I'm sure he didn't do much better at a similar age (18-20). The same goes for Giggs, Pires etc.

You are wrong here. Better quality does not equal better creativity. obviously better teams will score more goals and have higher volume of assist because they have better, more efficient and more productive players overall to put the chances away. It's only an assist if it results in a goal.

However team A might have better/even more creative players on paper than team B but football isn't played on paper but on the pitch. in some cases, team B might have better team chemistry, better team balance, more settled team,manager who coaches and plays strictly attacking football and encourages his team to push for more goals even when they are ahead, players on team B having better seasons than their "superior" counterparts and so on.

these factors does affect the creativity of each individual team. heck even the better team's main playmaker who the team depends on greatly for creativity might suffer injury or bad run of form, the creativity of the so called better team suffers as a result.. . . how creative are we as a team when hazard and fabregas are either out of the team or playing badly?

And it's interesting how you also conveniently ignore the fact that Willian plays exclusively out of position on the right wing when his best position by far is through the middle. The combination of all these factors does help sterling get into better goalscoring positions more often than Willian but his finishing often lets him down, that much is undeniable to me.

[DYC. 7,542]

You are wrong here. Better quality does not equal better creativity.obviously better teams will score more goals and have higher volume of assist because they have better, more efficient and more productive players to put the chances away. It's only an assist if it results in a goal.

A team whose sole philosophy is to attack and continue to do so even when they are ahead will usually create more chances than one with a more cautious and sensible approach like us. Leicester city for example, this season have created more chances than teams with much better players whose gap in quality is much bigger than the one between us and Liverpool. Sterling definitely gets into more goalscoring positions than Willian but his finishing often lets him down, that much is undeniable to me.

And it's interesting how you also conveniently ignore the fact that Willian plays exclusively out of position on the right wing when his best position by far is through the middle.

Willian's 'best position'. He's been here for two years and has only played in the middle a handful of games. He also plays on the right for Brazil. It's quite amazing how all these managers play him out of position. And it's not like their options in the middle are brilliant. In fact it's the heavily criticised Oscar that plays there both club and country.

Completely disagree with the first part of your post. And I think the part about Leicester City is highly unlikely, unless their superior chance creation compared to the better sides in the league includes a buttload of set-piece chances and long shots. Any stats to back that up? The best sides in a league always create the most chances and clear-cut chances.

I never said Sterling was a clinical finisher. I said he's better than Willian in the areas of finishing, goal threat and effectivity. Willian carries very little threat in the attacking third and he barely threatens goal because he rarely moves himself in to good attacking positions, a major ability in it's own right. Schurrle and even Ramires are/were a lot more threatening when playing there.

And Chelsea play the majority of matches on the opposition half. Any defensive or cautious game plan is reserved for top sides, and that's just away (bar Utd and PSG). Again, even when playing for Shakhtar, the best team in Ukraine by far, he didn't score or assist much. I don't understand how you could even argue that.

But this isn't going anywhere. We're obviously never going to agree.

[lionsden 4,689]

Willian's 'best position'. He's been here for two years and has only played in the middle a handful of games. He also plays on the right for Brazil. It's quite amazing how all these managers play him out of position. And it's not like their options in the middle are brilliant. In fact it's the heavily criticised Oscar that plays there both club and country.

Completely disagree with the first part of your post. And I think the part about Leicester City is highly unlikely, unless their superior chance creation compared to the better sides in the league includes a buttload of set-piece chances and long shots. Any stats to back that up? The best sides in a league always create the most chances and clear-cut chances.

I never said Sterling was a clinical finisher. I said he's better than Willian in the areas of finishing, goal threat and effectivity. Willian carries very little threat in the attacking third and he barely threatens goal because he rarely moves himself in to good attacking positions, a major ability in it's own right. Schurrle and even Ramires are/were a lot more threatening when playing there.

And Chelsea play the majority of matches on the opposition half. Any defensive or cautious game plan is reserved for top sides, and that's just away (bar Utd and PSG). Again, even when playing for Shakhtar, the best team in Ukraine by far, he didn't score or assist much. I don't understand how you could even argue that.

But this isn't going anywhere. We're obviously never going to agree.

First off, you quoted the unedited post.

The two problem I have with your argument/premise is that first, you are generalizing teams too much and basing your argument around "what should be" instead of "what is" and I have explained it in the edited version of my original post you quoted. football isn't played on paper.

secondly how can you deny that attacking midfield is Willian's best position when virtually all his best games at the club as come when playing in that position? Is it just pure coincidence? even if it is. I say let's find out by playing him in that position for a sustained period of time.

As for why there's no significant changes in willian's stats despite playing for the best team in the Ukraine league, the explanation for that lies in the position and role he played there. again he was playing as a winger (switchng between right and left) Mkhitaryan was their AM.

[Madmax 9,219]

Again, even when playing for Shakhtar, the best team in Ukraine by far, he didn't score or assist much. I don't understand how you could even argue that.

This is the key thing that people can't seem to get about Willian. The guy simply cannot score goals. It has never been a part of his game, and at 27 it would take something unprecedented for him to suddenly come up with that ability. I made a couple of posts about this in some thread earlier -

He doesn't come close to being prolific Shakhtar/Anzhi days (league numbers) :

07/08 - 0 goals, 2 assists (20 appearances)

08/09 - 5 goals, 5 assists (29 appearances)

09/10 - 5 goals, 5 assists (22 appearances)

10/11 - 3 goals, 10 assists (28 appearances)

11/12 - 5 goals, 16 assists (27 appearances)

12/13 - 3 goals, 7 assists (21 appearances)

That's 21 goals and 45 assists from nearly 150 games. A goal every 7th game and an assist every third game isn't that impressive given he played in a two-team league.

Good point, but Willian has been outscored by more or less all his competitors in that Shakhtar side when afforded similar game time :

Alex Teixeira

09-10 : 0 goals (3 appearances)

10-11 : 5 goals (26 appearances)

11-12 : 7 goals (26 appearances)

12-13 : 10 goals (27 appearances)

Douglas Costa

09-10 : 5 goals (13 appearances)

10-11 : 5 goals (27 appearances)

11-12 : 6 goals (27 appearances)

12-13 : 5 goals (27 appearances)

Jadson

07-08 : 7 goals (27 appearances)

08-09 : 1 goal (26 appearances)

09-10 : 9 goals (26 appearances)

10-11 : 5 goals (24 appearances)

11-12 : 3 goals (11 appearances)

Ilsinho

11-12 : 1 goal (7 appearances)

12-13 : 6 goals (19 appearances)

Mkhytaryan

10-11 : 3 goals (17 appearances)

11-12 : 10 goals (26 appearances)

12-13 : 25 goals (29 appearances)

The guy's simply not a goalscorer and never has been. Although credit to him for the assist numbers he racked up in 10-11 and 11-12, nobody comes close to it in that side during that period.

He deserves immense credit for the crucial contributions he has made in the final third since January, but we simply cannot expect him to sustain or better it over a season. A goalscoring wide man is the first box I want us to tick over the summer, whether or not Willian is moved inside permanently.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

'Raheem £ Sterling'

At this rate Sterling will get more hate than when Ashley Cole did the same to Arsenal. Fair enough Cole had actually won something with Arsenal before he moved, but that's not Sterling's fault Liverpool haven't.

I think Raheem's ceiling is incredibly high, it's no wonder you read that Bayern could be weighing up an offer. For the level he's at right now is incredible for his age group and if he continues to develop like this then he can be an integral part of any team.

We have a need at RW for Sterling. Even if Willian was moved to AM, we'd still need a RW cover. Salah will probably sign for Fiorentina permanently and that leaves Cuadrado.

[The Mak 4,459]

Liverpool might be more attacking, but they possess less quality. Messi for example would not manage the same numbers playing for Liverpool, because of inferior service and the inferior quality around him, meaning less space and time to operate in and a lot of moves failing because of a lack of understanding and simple lack of quality.

Willian played in Ukraine (!) and he still didn't manage to rack up the stats. Saying Willian would do better in these areas playing for Liverpool is pure speculation so there's no way you can argue that.

Whether Willian is the better player overall is up for discussion, but his finishing and in terms of goal threat and effectivity, he is without a doubt inferior compared to Sterling. And at 20, I'd bank on him to only improve. Not to compare him to Cristiano Ronaldo in terms of quality, but I'm sure he didn't do much better at a similar age (18-20). The same goes for Giggs, Pires etc.

I said there was no point in comparing the two because my main point is that Liverpool and Chelsea are vastly different teams.

You are essentially saying that he may become better with better players around him, which is not always the case e.g. Cuadrado. You say that he'll automatically get more time and space on the ball when paired with higher quality, I'm sorry, but that is nonsense. We all know that the vast majority of teams will park the bus against us, leaving a lot less "space and time to operate in" compared to Liverpool, so let's just get that straight.

My point is, that if he fails to step up his game to meet Chelsea standards, what can he fall back on? His great work ethic? His professionalism? So far he is nothing but an overhyped one trick pony with poor finishing. The only exceptional talent he seems to have is a knack for not being out of the papers. He has shown me nothing that differentiates him from the likes of Adam Johnson, Scott Sinclair, Ashley Young or Gabriel Agbonlahor etc.

Even think of the players José has already let go: Mata, KDB and Salah; is Sterling better than any of them? Not right now. Can he be? I don't really think so, certainly not Mata or KDB. I personally believe that, at the rate José is going with RWs, he would eat Sterling alive if he didn't hit the ground running.

And just because something is for sale doesn't mean you should buy it (especially if it is vastly overpriced).

[Cech's helmet 220]

Not good enough imo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsVnSMTph9g

[Magic Lamps 11,653]

Honestly we should give this little man a break. After all the stick he gets from the Liverpool biased media he at least deserves a fair evaluation of his talent. Ok he might be inconsistent and can't finish but he is 20 years old. No one expects a 20 year old to walk into our side instantly. Stil his potential and thus his resale value is immense, so I guess splashing out a good 30m even though it won't yield short term success would be a risky but not a unretracable investment given he is homegrown. He always tries, runs at defenders, has a good eye and pass too. His first touch lets him down at times but his dribbling is decent. In short he is one of the best 20 year old wingers in epl I have seen for years and it is by no means set in stone that he will be another walcott. lets not forget walcott's progress was hampered by injuries and the fact that WEnger never utilized him correctly. Sterling has still ample chance and time to fulfill the promise he is. Should we buy him? Probably not, we got enough players with his kind of skillset potential like Bertrand Traore and Mo Salah. As I always say in those winger threads, the past 2 years and 100m+ gross thrown at the RW have shown this is not the way to go.

[Fulham Broadway 16,838]

John Barnes:

"He should stay at a big club rather than one of the monied clubs . He shouldnt move on, he hasnt won anything yet."

Yes thats the fucking problem John.