Cesc Fàbregas

[Sheva. 5,373]

What I know is, him at 10 doesn't improve our play. We might as well have kept Mata for that.

What he can offer us is that build up and ball retention from a deeper role, a la Alonso.

His defensive problems are up to Mou to cover, like by having Willian or Oscar act like a 3rd midfielder when we're not in possession.

Whatever the case, we can't play 2 defensive midfielders like Rammy and Matic, then expect them to start attacks against defensive teams.

[Daniel1980 1,425]

watch the match again... first, our FB didn't bomb forward. There were times we had possession in the attack and you couldn't even see Azpilicueta in the frame. I remember one interception by Werder in our attack that ended up being a deflection and Azpilicueta got the rebound. He was in the middle line of the pitch literally while the ball has been in the attack for a while already. Luís was up more times, but often when Azpili was high, he was way back. We will never have both FB bombing forward as you call it.

Cesc played #10 today the full 90 minutes he stayed in the pitch. I can't connect this to what you're assuming will happen, but that hasn't happened yet as our best midfield presentation so far has been with him and Matic in the pivot.

It's pre-season, the opponents aren't stellar, but all conclusions are made in people's head as they haven't seen it happening yet to base their theories simply because it didn't happen as they picture.

I'm convinced we won't play him there in big matches, I'm aware he isn't that fast, but no one can say based on what they've seen so far that it doesn't work and he doesn't work because when he played there it simply worked. It may not always work - it certainly won't, but I'm actually surprised about the overreaction towards him in the pivot when he hasn't played there for one match and a half now (he played as third man midfield in the second half against Vitesse).

It's okay to have theories, we all have them, but make it clear they're theories about what you think will happen, not based on what happened because that couldn't be farther from what really passed.

This.

I've said numerous times that I think playing him as the most advanced midfielder in 4-3-3 would be the best, but even I am confused by this strange "no to Fabregas-Matic pivot" after the match he didn't play in the pivot. So he lost the ball a few times today when he played higher up the pitch. So what? All attacking players did. It comes with the job.

We saw Fabregas-Matic pivot only once--against a weak opposition, granted--but the fact remains that it worked. The overreaction after today's game is strange and quite unfounded--and I'm saying this as a guy who's always been skeptical of playing Cesc in the pivot.

That said, 4-3-3 would be better: less restrictive for him and more solid defensively.

[The Chels 2,502]

watch the match again... first, our FB didn't bomb forward. There were times we had possession in the attack and you couldn't even see Azpilicueta in the frame. I remember one interception by Werder in our attack that ended up being a deflection and Azpilicueta got the rebound. He was in the middle line of the pitch literally while the ball has been in the attack for a while already. Luís was up more times, but often when Azpili was high, he was way back. We will never have both FB bombing forward as you call it. Cesc played #10 today the full 90 minutes he stayed in the pitch. I can't connect this to what you're assuming will happen, but that hasn't happened yet as our best midfield presentation so far has been with him and Matic in the pivot. It's pre-season, the opponents aren't stellar, but all conclusions are made in people's head as they haven't seen it happening yet to base their theories simply because it didn't happen as they picture. I'm convinced we won't play him there in big matches, I'm aware he isn't that fast, but no one can say based on what they've seen so far that it doesn't work and he doesn't work because when he played there it simply worked. It may not always work - it certainly won't, but I'm actually surprised about the overreaction towards him in the pivot when he hasn't played there for one match and a half now (he played as third man midfield in the second half against Vitesse).

I didn't say in my post that all my conclusions were coming from today's game like you seem to have inferred. I've actually been in favour of the Matic-Fabregas pivot in theory but I'm a little more concerned now basing it on what I have seen so far. Our FBs will go forward more often (I didn't say simultaneously like you've once again inferred) which means we need a more defensively secure pivot but a slow Fabregas (he IS slow) is an easy pressing target for counter-attacking teams. And teams always seem to have very high conversion rates countering us.

It's okay to have theories, we all have them, but make it clear they're theories about what you think will happen, not based on what happened because that couldn't be farther from what really passed.

Not sure why you're getting so defensive but 'I have a feeling...' was not clear enough?

I'm not sure what today's game has to do with the argument of Fabregas-Matic pivot not working

I'm not basing it solely on today's game and I didn't say it wouldn't work. I think a 4-3-3- would leave us less exposed defensively (even if it means Ramires has to play which isn't great).

[Styles 9,790]

My concern is that instead of actually solving the pivot problem we may have unwittingly created another issue(s); Fabregas essentially having to become a full-time #10 and/or moving away from Mourinho's preferred 4-2-3-1 formation and effectively having to restructure the side because of this transfer.

A lot can and will happen when the serious football starts so we'll have to wait and see. One thing I will say now though is that he is incredibly slow and I hate that. I felt that was Mata's biggest problem with regards to pressing as he couldn't close opponents down quickly enough and recover his position when moves broke down.

[Barbara 15,149]

I didn't say in my post that all my conclusions were coming from today's game like you seem to have inferred. I've actually been in favour of the Matic-Fabregas pivot in theory but I'm a little more concerned now basing it on what I have seen so far. Our FBs will go forward more often (I didn't say simultaneously like you've once again inferred) which means we need a more defensively secure pivot but a slow Fabregas (he IS slow) is an easy pressing target for counter-attacking teams. And teams always seem to have very high conversion rates countering us.

Not sure why you're getting so defensive but 'I have a feeling...' was not clear enough?

I'm not basing it solely on today's game and I didn't say it wouldn't work. I think a 4-3-3- would leave us less exposed defensively (even if it means Ramires has to play which isn't great).

sorry then, but summing up your post here and the posts in the match threads, it seems like people are labeling Cesc in the pivot something that won't work because he loses possession and isn't fast enough to recover it based on matches when he hasn't been there for 135 minutes now...

It seems like people are coming to conclusions based on the matches, not simply on their theories, but if it's only your theory, okay then. Again, the 45 minutes he played there we completely dominated the midfield and that was against Vitesse. Although we played even better when it was changed for a 4-3-3 in the second half of that match.

So I misunderstood your whole post.

Also the ideal 4-3-3 doesn't have Ramires anywhere the lineup against the average side. Not sure Mourinho will see it that way but his insistence on praising Cesc in every interview, the way he stresses he's a CM or someone that gives his best #8 but also with flexibility to play #10 and basically no mention of Ramires at all makes me think he'll try that.

Actually he will have to cope without Ramires anyway because he's suspended for a few matches (I guess 3?) as he didn't complete his suspension from the end of last season. He's a moron.

[The Chels 2,502]

Actually he will have to cope without Ramires anyway because he's suspended for a few matches (I guess 3?) as he didn't complete his suspension from the end of last season. He's a moron.

It's only 1 more game (Burnley).

[Daniel1980 1,425]

Actually, that miss after Eden's pass aside, he played pretty well today. I thought he looked sharper today as #10 than he did in previous game. Was certainly more involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3VwAVqZCRM

Those highlights don't have his passes to Drogba though:

If only Drogba was fitter. And Torres wasn't Torres.

[Korea 734]

4-3-3 is the best formation for current chelsea.

matic-ramires-cesc

0scar-costa-hazard

[stroey 2,525]

4-3-3 is the best formation for current chelsea.

matic-ramires-cesc

0scar-costa-hazard

Schurrle/Willian for Oscar, Oscar is too slow for the wing.

[Barbara 15,149]

4-3-3 is the best formation for current chelsea.

matic-ramires-cesc

0scar-costa-hazard

Schurrle/Willian for Oscar, Oscar is too slow for the wing.

I agree on the 4-3-3 but I'd have

Matic-Cesc

Oscar

Schurrle/Willian-Hazard

Costa

by far our best formation if all of them are in form.

[Namika 922]

"What I know is, him at 10 doesn't improve our play. We might as well have kept Mata for that."

2 pre season games... ffs...

[Blue Armour 4,336]

Actually, that miss after Eden's pass aside, he played pretty well today. I thought he looked sharper today as #10 than he did in previous game. Was certainly more involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3VwAVqZCRM

Those highlights don't have his passes to Drogba though:

If only Drogba was fitter. And Torres wasn't Torres.

Drogba may not be what he used to be...but I still love how the other players like Brana and Terry get fired up when he steps onto the pitch.

[bababoom 4,478]

People need to look at the game again, you can say Cesc was ineffective today while playing as a number 10, but why do you think that is? our midfielders have to play more risky balls into Cesc. Matic tried if occasional but more often than not they (Matic,MVG+defence) would pass it out to the wings. We need to pass it into Cesc when he's further up the pitch and able to cause damage.

I agree that Cesc should be our deep lying playmaker, although we struggled creative wise last season i think it was more to do with our midfielders failing to consistently play the risky ball into our attackers, again remember how Hazard and Oscar had to drop deep to get a touch. The advantage with Cesc playing in the pivot means the likes of Hazard, Willian and Oscar can receive the ball when they are higher up the pitch and in space.

[Barbara 15,149]

People need to look at the game again, you can say Cesc was ineffective today while playing as a number 10, but why do you think that is? our midfielders have to play more risky balls into Cesc. Matic tried if occasional but more often than not they (Matic,MVG+defence) would pass it out to the wings. We need to pass it into Cesc when he's further up the pitch and able to cause damage.

I agree that Cesc should be our deep lying playmaker, although we struggled creative wise last season i think it was more to do with our midfielders failing to consistently play the risky ball into our attackers, again remember how Hazard and Oscar had to drop deep to get a touch. The advantage with Cesc playing in the pivot means the likes of Hazard, Willian and Oscar can receive the ball when they are higher up the pitch and in space.

exactly why he has to be there because we already proved we don't have the player that will take that risk. Cesc will. Cesc will pass them, as he did in those 45 minutes against Vitesse. It's natural for him to do that.

And today Cesc also dropped deep in a handful occasions to get a touch as well - same as our AMs last season. I think Mourinho is making as much tests as he can now and will only take the last two friendlies more seriously (not that he hasn't been serious so far, I think he'll make tests until then, but with the full squad at his disposal he'll probably stick to the test he liked more and won't make as many subs in the last two).

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

His best position is on the 8, orchestrating our attacks from deep. That is why we bought him. That's what we lacked.

Last season, against teams that parked the bus, we struggled to get the ball to our front four that's where Fabregas comes in.

He needs to be the one feeding our attackers from deep. Finding them in tight spaces.

Against the parked bus it should be Matic-Fabregas-Oscar/Willian midfield.

Against top teams i think a midfield off Matic-Ramires-Fabregas is the way to go. ( whether that's in 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 doesn't really matter that much.)

[Sheva. 5,373]

"What I know is, him at 10 doesn't improve our play. We might as well have kept Mata for that."

2 pre season games... ffs...

Preseason or not, we need someone to get the ball to the attacking players. Fabregas can do this.

But if Fabregas plays higher up the pitch, then we have the same problems of slow build up, no creativity from deep etc that we have always had.

[termninja 5,290]

Barcelona killed him. Chelsea will revive him.

Well a bit, but not that much. They certainly made him a much better all around player, which is of course great.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Looks like Cesc likes not only Lebanese women, but Lebanese food as well

CC: @Barbara